Pre War Mauser in Schuler Caliber 11.2x72

[Yukontom]

I have an original 11.2x72 built by Schuler and sold through GECO between the wars. Grand Venuer is correct in that the Woodleigh bullets are the only ones available, with solids by custom makers only. In my opinion however this disqualifies the cartridge only for Elephant. With typical large bore powders in use today the cartridge length/bullet seating depth is not an issue and I have loaded it equal to and exceeding 404 Jeff. The limiting factor for me is recoil as the rifle is fairly lightweight and kicks harder than my 404 which is heavier by about 1/2lb.

 

[PerH]

Didn’t Harald Wolf make a non rebated case of his own make for his 11,72 mm , like he did for .500Jeffe, aka . .50” HWM IMP

Here is a article about a Swedish aristocrat on hunt with his such rifle

Gustaf C:son Lewenhaupt of Sweden

The following story and three images are courtesy of the author of the article, our friend Fredrik Franzén of Sweden and appeared in the Dec. 2015 issue of Jakt & Jagare .

www.germanhuntingguns.com

 

[Yukontom]

Didn’t Harald Wolf make a non rebated case of his own make for his 11,72 mm , like he did for .500Jeffe, aka . .50” HWM IMP

Here is a article about a Swedish aristocrat on hunt with his such rifle

Gustaf C:son Lewenhaupt of Sweden

The following story and three images are courtesy of the author of the article, our friend Fredrik Franzén of Sweden and appeared in the Dec. 2015 issue of Jakt & Jagare .

www.germanhuntingguns.com

Not sure about Harald and his version of the cartridge. The one I have works flawlessly with the rebated rim cases. The action also has a brass spacer that makes the magazine deeper to handle capacity of the fatter cases and it feeds quite well.
Thanks for sharing the article. Sorry I can't read the text.

 

[PerH]

Google translate is good

But in short The Royal Swedish hunt master went with Prince William of Sweden as part of entourage to Siam for the kings coronation there . And hunting for days after wards.

But before that he went to the famed and good gun store Widforrs which was Foerster importer for his 3 rifles . Widforrs is still open today .

There he picked up the 2 Mauser and a double in 9,3mm

He later went to India and BEA with his rifles . Mostly used his 7 and 9,3 . I will read more on the 11,72 mm and translate those chapter later

 

[grand veneur]

Thanks to a member of our Forum, Wim Degol in Belgium would be ready to produce again bullets for the cartridge 11,2x72 Schüler. Since I have been looking for FMJ bullets for this cartridge for a long time, I promised him that I would buy a certain amount of such bullets.

Whoever is interested in such bullets should take advantage of the opportunity, because as there are more interested parties, the project will become more realistic.

 

[Yukontom]

Thanks to a member of our Forum, Wim Degol in Belgium would be ready to produce again bullets for the cartridge 11,2x72 Schüler. Since I have been looking for FMJ bullets for this cartridge for a long time, I promised him that I would buy a certain amount of such bullets.

Whoever is interested in such bullets should take advantage of the opportunity, because as there are more interested parties, the project will become more realistic.

yes I exchanged emails with Mr Degol a couple years ago on the same subject. I cannot recall his minimum production numbers but it was way more than I thought I needed or could deal with. If they were available in the US, I would probably purchase a hundred.

 

[Yukontom]

And by the way, since Woodleigh is currently not available as they recover from the fire, another source for .440 soft point bullets is Hawk Bullets. They have jacketed soft points up to and including 400gr. These are soft lead with a copper jacket so good for general shooting but probably not recommended for dangerous game.

Hawk Bullets: The World's Premier Custom Bullet Manufacturer | Hawk Incorporated

Hawk Precision, maker of obsolete, custom, and vintage bullet manufacturing. Spitzer, Round Nose, Flat Point, Jacketed, Cast Bullets.

hawkbullets.com

 

[grand veneur]

It's about two things here ; firstly to design the original cartridge and secondly to have a cartridge suitable for large game that also meets our current standards.

I know the cartridge 11,2x72 Schüler cartridge primarily with a FMJ bullet, which can certainly be explained by the fact that this bullet was the standard at the time for shooting big game. This concept certainly no longer corresponds to this valid nowadays, but the cartridge also don't do that. Nevertheless, today you can still shooting big game with FMJ bullets, but if you no longer trust in this and therefore prefer more modern bullets than the classic FMJ bullets, usually one not go hunting with a cartridge like the 11,2x72 Schüler and above all with an original rifle.

The 11,2mm FMJ bullets from Degol are thick-walled and have nothing in common with the original bullets of the cartridge 11,2x72 Schüler.

 

[Huvius]

I’ve been making bullets from spent 7.62X39 brass.
Haven’t been to the range with them yet but I have no doubt they will perform as well as any other bullet made from spent cases.
Likely just fine for any game animal in North America as well.

 

[HWL]

Whoever is interested in such bullets should take advantage of the opportunity, because as there are more interested parties, the project will become more realistic.

Can I feed my 11,2x60 Schuler with this kind of bullets....?

HWL

 

[grand veneur]

Can I feed my 11,2x60 Schuler with this kind of bullets....?

HWL

Hallo HWL,

I don't know. Wim Degol informed me that his bullets have a wall thickness of 1,8mm at the base which perhaps is not ideal for the cartridge 11,2x60.

As far as I understood him, he would produce FMJ bullets but also SP bullets for another customer. The SP bullets may perhaps look different.

 

[DieJager]

Little bit off topic but do any of you know an available rifle for sale in Europe in this caliber?

 

[grand veneur]

It's not OT, the thread is about original rifles caliber 11,2x72 Schüler.

Offers are rare. It remains very unclear how many rifles of this caliber were produced and also used for hunting in Africa and in India. I believe that few were built and only a few of that were used. This could have had many reasons at this time.

 

[grand veneur]

My rifle was built in 1923 by August Schüler for Lyon & Lyon / Calcutta, but due to its very good condition it has probably never seen India.

 

[Yukontom]

The one I have is a Model 34 made by August Schuler and marked G Genschow & Co A G Hamburg which became GECO. Proof marks indicate 1924 with the barrel marked Krupp Stahl. The small placquard on the stock attributes ownership by Sankaran Nair who was President of the Indian National Congress at some point and Knighted in 1912 so safe to assume the rifle was in India. It is in fabulous condition because I think at some point it has seen a restoration/recondition.

 

[Huvius]

My rifle was built in 1923 by August Schüler for Lyon & Lyon / Calcutta, but due to its very good condition it has probably never seen India.

View attachment 583856

Mine is stamped exactly the same right behind the rear sight.
My 500 was also retailed by Lyon & Lyon

 

[grand veneur]

Unfortunately, there are only few hunting reports of the use of rifles caliber 11,2x72 Schüler. I only know the reports by Harald Wolf in HATARI TIMES and another single one about a hunt that took place 1953 in SW-Africa.

Germany had no more colonies since 1914, and the competitive pressure created by cartridges such as the 404 Jeffery, 425 Westley Richards and 416 Rigby was great. Compared to the cartridges mentioned, the cartridge 11,2x72 unfortunately offers no advantages, on contrary. The supply of ammunition must certainly have been a problem. Harald Wolf also reports in Hatari Times that his friend, a farmer not far from Gonarezhou NP in Southeast Zimbabwe, only fired very old cartridges 11,2x72 Schüler, and that in the nineties.

By the way, the same thing could have happened with the cartridge 12,7x70 Schüler. Despite the British name 500 Jeffery, it was never very popular between the world wars and was no longer available by the early sixties. Their salvation and relative current popularity are another topic, but in this caliber class it offers a lot more than the cartridge 11,2x72 Schüler in its class and can for this reason easily keep pace with more modern cartridges caliber 50. Maybe that's the difference.

 

[grand veneur]

The specified charge is interesting. Bl. P 5 is an old flake gun powder, so that no comparison with modern powders is nowadays possible as far the burning rate is concerned. This kind of powder was also used for many classic German cartridges and for this reason, the 5,25g/81gr load with this powder seems very hot to me. At that time the goal was but to achieve a muzzle velocity of 740ms with the 26g/401gr FMJ bullet. This velocity seems very theoretical to me. In practice by reloading it will be nowadays around 700ms/2300 fps in a safe pressure range.

 

[Yukontom]

There is reloading information for 11.2x72 on Load Data website and there was an article in the November/December 1992 issue of Handloader magazine. If anyone wants a copy PM me and I will be happy to share it. In both cases they list max loads at or slightly above 2,400fps. Bottom line is that the case capacity is the same as the 404 Jeff and the same powders/loads will work in either. I think they are also equally lethal. I am a big fan of the 40 calibers and believe the 11.2 would be great for Buffalo/Hippo etc... even with soft points.

 

[rookhawk]

As I get older, I find my taste in rifles and guns is following a similar trajectory. Except for one useful plastic stocked 12 for salt marsh ducks, all my shotguns are SXS's and OU's. Most of my rifles are classics of one type or another with British or Teutonic lines. I am particularly excited about my latest find. It is a pre-war Mauser with a 3/4 stock and long solid-ribbed, half octagon/half round barrel of 28 inches. It is essentially in unfired condition and is in 11.2x72 Schuler.

And what a neat round. 401 gr bullet in .44 cal at 2400 fps for more than 5000 fps of energy. Woodliegh still makes a SP, Bertram has brass, and a set of RCBS tools are on the way. A couple of dealers will turn solids at that weight. If it shoots as well as I suspect it will, I'll take it across the way to duel with a buff next summer. Just a neat rifle.

Is this the cartridge that is popular to this day in a particular Swiss Canton? I remember reading about an obscure cartridge that was beloved by the Swiss.