Pre-72 Remingtons??

[Ray B]

I saw on another posting a reference to Pre-72 Remington firearms. I had not previously heard this category. Are there differences between pre & post 72s?

 

[sestoppelman]

I never have either Ray, but probably something to it.

 

[mark-hunter]

Google has no idea about this. But 1873 was significant year in firearm history.

My guess, is 1872 and back, was the age of cap and ball firearms. It might have to do with concept of metallic cartridges being massively introduced with colt saa 73, and cap and ball firearms were massively being converted after that year, plus new metallic cartridge firearms being introduced on wards.

But, this is just guessing, on my side.

@Ray B
If you saw the reference to pre-72 Remington, let as get a full quote, to get idea of the context.

 

[fourfive8]

Yes, could be the 1873 transition to cartridge but that was a Colt cartridge revolver model where maybe the 19 and 18 got mixed or assumed? Or possibly the '72 and '62 got mixed. With 1962 being the first Rem Model 700. Otherwise, got me? I'll look in a Remington reference to see if any likely possibilities...

... OK, the only thing I found in the Remington material that seemed close was in 1873 Remington introduced the first widely available and affordable double barrel shotgun in America. Prior to that most decent double barrel shotguns were imported and the better ones were expensive.

 

[fourfive8]

I guess since Remington had not yet completely ceded the market for handgun production to Colt just yet they did bring out a single action converted C&B version their New Model Belt Revolver in cartridge form in 1873 and a cartridge converted New Model Pocket revolver in 1873.

...and still digging. Would be of interest especially in a modern context (20th century + )
Found this nugget in an American Rifleman article.

 

[sestoppelman]

Might be useful to know what century we are talking about.

 

[Ray B]

I've looked and looked and I can't find the posting where the term pre-72 was used. It was in reference to a M700 Remington and it was somewhere on the AH forum- 'cause I didn't want to hi-jack the thread by asking. So maybe I mis-read it or whatever- it appears that there is no significant difference between M700s made prior to or after 1972, although I understand there are significant differences between the early ones and later production. Possibly the poster was just referring to the age of his M700 by saying that it was made prior to 1972 so as to separate it from some of the later production. As a side note, when was all the deal made about Remington triggers?

 

[sestoppelman]

The trigger thing has been going on for years. Some claim their guns went off without touching the trigger, but it was not provable if I recall. Nonetheless Rem paid a lot for it, and changed the trigger design, then had issues with it too and had to recall some. I remember a TV show, probably 60 Minutes, describing how tragically a woman shot and killed her own son and claimed it was the rifles fault. Obviously she was at fault because the rifle was pointing at her son!
I don't know the details on how it all shook out, but it seemed like a bad case of unsafe gun handling in most cases and I don't think they were ever able to make it happen on demand. I could be wrong of course. If I am I am certain someone will be able to point to the facts.

 

[Hummer]

Pre 72 was the old designs, 721, 722, 725 and for lack of a better term were strong but not attractive so to speak.

The 700 was the classy looking models and I have one with a 4 digit serial number that I don't think has seen two boxes of ammo.

The 700 was made in a short action and a long action for many calibers. Then there was a 78 which was a Plain Jane without checkered stocks, high polish finish etc. I have at least one and maybe two of them.

The trigger problems were basically because the safety was not so SAFE and you could flip off safety and it fire because it was not adjusted properly. Some folks tried to adjust them to be on the light side and that made things worse yet.

While I have never had a problem I never carry a 700 with a round in the chamber. That being said the M24, M40, M40A1 Sniper Rifles were all based on 700 actions. The M24 was originally built on a long action in 7.62 with the idea of converting them to a belted magnum at a later date. At this time they are being retrofitted for 338 Lapua Magnum caliber in order to increase hit probably out to 1500 meters.

The guy that got the M24 rolling was Herb Wreden on the right in the above picture. I am in the middle and person on the left worked in SAAMI Program at Picatinny Arsenal with Herb. I stopped in Pennsylania to see Herb in 2010 and visited with him a couple days. He died in I think it was 2012 and I went to Pennsylvania for his funeral and myself and the third person in pic were asked to be pallbearers for our friend. I had known both the others since 1978 when I went to the US Army Small Cal Lab at Picatinny Arsenal.



There are some problems you need to be aware of. One is the threads in the actions are not lathe cut and are cut with a tap which most of the time means the threads are not at right angles to the bore line and this is evident in off center striker indents on the primer. Thinking back I have only seen maybe five 700s with a dead center striker indent.

Manson Precision Reamers in the states sells a kit for squaring the action threads in Remington actions and I have seen one demonstrated and it actually causes the striker indent to become more centered on the primer.

Per study conducted at Frankford Arsenal Ammunition Plant if the states offset indents exceeded .020" gets you into the misfire category. The industry recommendation is to not have indents for than half the diameter of the striker tip which are generally .060" range. Thus you can expect to see indents of .030" offset.

I have seen (and have had) several 700s and 40X rifles with crooked bores internally. The outside of the barrel is straight the inside is crooked. A 40X is a short action and identical to a 700 except they are selected for straightness and some actions are banana shaped and the bottoms of the actions are ground in the custom shop. So 40X action may have magazines, some are solid bottom single shot. Some 40X actions have a clip slot cut in receiver for stripper clip reloads for rapid fire. They are called 40XC for Course rifle as highpower competition in the states calls for strings of rapid fire where you load five, shoot five, reload five and shoot 5 in 60 seconds at 200 yards from sitting position and 70 seconds at 300 yards from prone position.

Should you have a extractor failure in the field it is a real bugger to get extractor replaced as they are a ring affair and secured by a rivet on the bottom of the bolt.
Up until 1979 time frame the bolt handles were silver soldered on the bolt body and a number came off thus they started to be laser welded.

During Sandbox 1 I was advised snipers were issued spare bolts to carry as the dust storms there will cause all kinds of havoc.

The 700s came with wood stocks and both ADL and BDL ADL does not have floorplate for unloading the rifles and BDL does. The 40X was also made in 22 long rifle match rifles and I have one of those as well.

A few years ago the original triggers (known as Walker Triggers) were changed due to law suits. The Walker triggers have a grooved front surface and are black in color and properly adjusted will last many years. The new ones are not grooved and are gray. I have not had a new one but I was told they have a short life and break and most everyone buys another trigger if they are going to use it for high volume firing/competition.

Thus I am keeping my older 700s, 78, 40Xs as I know how to keep them going.

Of yes almost forgot when the M24s were first fielded they had 5R barrels on them and last Herb and I heard they were still holding up past 15,000+ rounds at Army Sniper School at Ft. Benning.

The TOP (Test Operation Procedure) for sniper rifles is 10,000 rounds fired one shot per minute for 25 rounds and quickly cleaned and another 25 rounds. Barrel was allowed to be changed after 6000 rounds but original barrel was still shooting acceptance dispersion at 10,000 rounds per Herb who traveled to Remington to monitor the testing.

The best rebuilds I am aware of (commercially) were done by Iron Brigade Armory in North Carolina but they went out of business in the last five years. Their rifles were superb.

 

[Forrest Halley]

I saw on another posting a reference to Pre-72 Remington firearms. I had not previously heard this category. Are there differences between pre & post 72s?

Hello @Ray B ,
I am the poster about the Pre 72 Remington. The main significance is the rear sights and the stepped receiver. The 700 came out in '62. There were old school elevator slide ramp rear sights not unlike the early M70. Notable also was a stepped receiver where the front and rear scope bases would have to be of different heights in order to collimate the scope to the bore properly. The story is that my Uncle and my Father both bought 700's after Vietnam, one in .243 and the other in .30-06. Bought very close to each other. Would've been about 1973. One has old style sights and the other has the new style graduated ramp sights. Both feature scopes with the .30-06 having see through rings to allow the use of the open sights.
Best,
F

 

[sestoppelman]

My first bolt action was a 700 ADL in .308, which I sold sadly many years ago. I recently acquired this rifle, same vintage 1967, as my first in the same caliber, also ADL. Who would think it would be a hard rifle to find in .308 Win?! But it is very scarce.

 

[Ray B]

M700 ADL. I got this when I was 14. It was a brand new on the market made in 1962. It is the original stock but my step-dad was shortsighted and cut the stock(over my strenuous objections) to fit me at the time- I was about 5'4". Several years later I worked on the stock to its present trim measurements. As I've noted elsewhere, I've used this rifle for the hunter education classes and it has been handled by about a thousand students. Prior to the state stopping the use of firing private firearms owned by instructors the students would fire 5 rounds through it. During the early years it was my primary hunting rifle and made trips from Alaska to California to South Carolina and several states in between. the only "malefunction" was when my cousin was emptying it and left a round in the chamber due to the extractor not completely snapping over the rim.

 

[sestoppelman]

Nice carbine Ray. Its actually easier to find a carbine now than the 22" rifle like mine. The very first guns were all carbines I believe in the short cals anyway.

 

[Forrest Halley]

There's a malfunction in your post: you did not state the caliber.

 

[Ray B]

There's a malfunction in your post: you did not state the caliber.

It's a 308 Win barrel stamped as June 1962.

 

[Dwight Beagle]

My first centerfire rifle was purchased in 1972 with calf money, I was 13. A 700 ADL .270. A gunsmith lightened the trigger around 1980 to 3 lbs. I don’t remember what he did to it. It’s a Walker trigger. It’s pretty much been retired in favor of a CZ 550 American 6.5x55.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

I have an old Remington 721 in 30-06. My dad bought it used in the mid 1960s and it had a Weaver K4 scope on it.

Larry Potterfield did a short video on the 721

 

[Ray B]

https://www.africahunting.com/members/hummer.52620/

When was the bolt shroud changed from the rather short, quite similar to the 722 to the newer longer style where the striker is entirely enclosed?

 

[Hummer]

Ray B, is your 1962 700 serial number over 10,000? Mine is in the 9000 range.

 

[Terry Blauwkamp]

I have an old M 700 with a 5 digit serial number...is that a Pre-72 ?

Bolt cocking piece is slightly different, but that's all I can think of.