Pre 64 Winchester Model 70 African Super Grade 458 Win Mag. Value?

[Wayne]

I'm looking to get an estimate on the value of my .458 WinMag Model 70 African Super Grade. It's one of the rarest versions, with an estimated manufacturing year of 1956—making it the second rarest style of Model 70 ever made. Serial number:392###
The original stock was replaced years ago with a custom Droll Peer tree stock, expertly crafted by the late stock master builder for Musgrave. The stock is in excellent condition with no cracks and only light handling marks. The recoil pad is like new and still supple.

The rifle includes a correct Lyman 37FA silver bead front sight, an elaborate machined rear sight, and a beautifully matte-blued barrel. The bore and mechanical functions are flawless. It also features factory-installed crossbolts in the stock, with two smaller bakelite plugged crossbolts.

Any insights on its current market value would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[sierraone]

Steve Barnett Fine Guns in West Point Mississippi used to sell these for around $10,000. He passed away about 1-2 years ago. The business is still in operation but I don't know who runs owns or runs it. The business still has one of the largest fine gun displays at DSC each year though.

 

[RR 314]

Ok. Insomnia is kicking in, so here is my take. There were about 1200 of these made. In excellent original condition I could see 10-12K to the right collector. The stock, although nicer than original, kills it and greatly reduces the value. It is now a shooter and my WAG would be around 3-4K in current condition. I will gladly accept criticism if I am off. Perhaps try to get the proper stock from a .375 and have it fitted, but still not original.

 

[Wayne]

Ok. Insomnia is kicking in, so here is my take. There were about 1200 of these made. In excellent original condition I could see 10-12K to the right collector. The stock, although nicer than original, kills it and greatly reduces the value. It is now a shooter and my WAG would be around 3-4K in current condition. I will gladly accept criticism if I am off. Perhaps try to get the proper stock from a .375 and have it fitted, but still not original.

Great comments ! im looking for the original stock it must be somewhere and have to decide to put it back or sell it with the rifle as it.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Find the original stock.

Lon

 

[deewayne2003]

As others have stated the replacement stock kills the value and I believe some if not all of it have been refinished and I see a couple of burred up screw heads.

Don’t get me wrong, I love the rifle but a collection piece it is not- but a great hunting/shooting rifle.

I would agree with the $3-4K valuation.

But @rookhawk would be able to put a more accurate price to it.

 

[Mekaniks]

Yes it is an excellent hunting rifle.

The collector value is gone. The original stock will help with that, but the metal has been recoated and there is no going back to original….
I can’t see if there is any extra holes in the receiver from the pics provided but it’s probably irrelevant.
If you have the build sheet that might help also…
Custom rifles like this with the pre 64 action have been really popular over the years and folks have spent a lot of money to have them built. IMO this is a very good example of one……
If someone wants what is likely an excellent DG rifle….and it could probably be opened up to a Lott without hurting the current value…

I agree with the comments above… it’s likely in the 3k price range, maybe more to the right person that is craving an already built custom shooter….

 

[rookhawk]

As others have stated the replacement stock kills the value and I believe some if not all of it have been refinished and I see a couple of burred up screw heads.

Don’t get me wrong, I love the rifle but a collection piece it is not- but a great hunting/shooting rifle.

I would agree with the $3-4K valuation.

But @rookhawk would be able to put a more accurate price to it.

It’s a very well made gun, but it’s unfortunately lost ALL collector value. $3000-$3500 due to two factors:

1.) it’s been restored, polished, and modified

2.) the original stock is missing.

If the original stock could be found, what could it be worth?

If someone spent $3000 completely restoring it back to the entire look and finishes of the original rifle, and it was flawlessly perfect as a restoration in every way, it could be worth $6500-$7000. Thus, it’s worth $3000-$3500 as-is IF the original stock can be found.

Judging it a different way, just as a custom rifle built on pre-64 parts, it also is a $3000-$3500 rifle because of the lack of desirability of the caliber.

The cheapest way to enhance value of the gun is to find the original stock, otherwise a dealer or aspiring restorer is going to offer less than the full retail prices quoted above.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

A have a Pre64 African Super Grade in the safe with the original stock that I got a couple years ago for significantly less than the $8-10k people quoted. A few months ago, I had an opportunity at another one in 97% condition w/ original stock, sling and swivels and that was priced at $8500.

Your rifle, has an aftermarket crossbolted stock, and the metal had been refinished. Does the s/n on the bolt match the s/n on the receiver? Every Pre64 African I’ve seen had a jeweled bolt and the white area on the knob wasn’t filled in or white.

If the bolt is original and IF you found the original stock $3-4k. If the bolt is original and you only have that stock $2k-2500. If the bolt isn’t original and you only have that stock $1-2k.

 

[Piet-Vis]

I have the same rifle, with the original stock, but the metalwork was refurbished.
My enquiries about it's value also did not suggest that the value is worth a great deal.

On a side note - I simply live the indigenous African hardwood stocks that Jan Bondisio builds. I recently sent him three rifles to restock for me and I can't wait to get the end product!

 

[rookhawk]

It just hit me that the fellow with the Pre70 458 SG is in Africa. In the roughly 12 months I’ve spent on the ground in Africa over the past 15-ish years I can’t say that I’ve seen any collectors or collector market for guns of any sort?

I think all the estimates of value were predicated on the idea that the gun was in the USA.

The last similar gun I saw was owned by a PH in Zim. He bought it for $1200 worn but all original, then shot it professionally enough times with heavy loads to break the original stock thereafter. I’d assume it would be worth more in RSA than in Zim though, and would probably be worth more if it was modified to handle 458 Lott as a tool than as a collectible.

 

[TSIBINDI]

...Locating a stock won't increase the value of the rifle. That would be akin to putting lipstick on a pig. Collecting pre '64 model 70's (or collecting anything, for that matter) comes down to originality and condition. Since both criteria have been lost, IMO the rifle, as is, is worth $2500. And that amount only because of the existing stock.

Several years ago, I happened to locate a .458 stock, NIB and I paid $1,000 for it. There were 1226 African model 70's produced, and the stocks were specific for the rifles.

As an aside: Rarest pre '64 was the .300 Savage, 362 produced. Second rarest, .35 Remington, 404, the third rarest is the .458 African.

 

[Altitude sickness]

If it was in the US I would be happy to pay some of the low ball quotes above. Then chop and re crown the barrel to 20-21”

 

[Piet-Vis]

It just hit me that the fellow with the Pre70 458 SG is in Africa. In the roughly 12 months I’ve spent on the ground in Africa over the past 15-ish years I can’t say that I’ve seen any collectors or collector market for guns of any sort?

I think all the estimates of value were predicated on the idea that the gun was in the USA.

The last similar gun I saw was owned by a PH in Zim. He bought it for $1200 worn but all original, then shot it professionally enough times with heavy loads to break the original stock thereafter. I’d assume it would be worth more in RSA than in Zim though, and would probably be worth more if it was modified to handle 458 Lott as a tool than as a collectible.

Plenty of collectors in South Africa, and a few in every country North of the Limpopo. I must add that people over here favour German or British rifles, can't say I've heard of a African collecting American guns.

 

[Wayne]

There has been great responses from so many individuals, I am grateful for the knowledge shared, and have learn an enormous amount of details pertaining to originality of firearms.

I have an clear idea on the sale price, especially in South Africa.

and will keep the tread going on my final sale price, so everyone here will be able to use my feedback on their justifications, when i find the stock ill add it to the sale, but if i sell the rifle with no stock and find the stock later on then ill also post the stock here for sale...

 

[rookhawk]

Plenty of collectors in South Africa, and a few in every country North of the Limpopo. I must add that people over here favour German or British rifles, can't say I've heard of a African collecting American guns.

Too small of a populace of affluent hunters to really drive up the collector gun market. If I was an African I would have paid "obscene" money to buy up all the battered and soiled safari rifles that had significant provenance associated with them. (e.g. Selby's guns)

It is the one global collector arm that is obtainable in Africa with high international demand. Plus, the price based on condition doesn't matter since it would be a one of a kind.

Many of these guns of significant provenance are being beat to death to this day by apprentice hunters and others that have no reverence for the gun beyond its use as a tool.

 

[Piet-Vis]

Too small of a populace of affluent hunters to really drive up the collector gun market. If I was an African I would have paid "obscene" money to buy up all the battered and soiled safari rifles that had significant provenance associated with them. (e.g. Selby's guns)

It is the one global collector arm that is obtainable in Africa with high international demand. Plus, the price based on condition doesn't matter since it would be a one of a kind.

Many of these guns of significant provenance are being beat to death to this day by apprentice hunters and others that have no reverence for the gun beyond its use as a tool.

My Dad fondly remembers looking at Major PJ Pretorius Rifles decades ago which was kept by a family member at that stage.
Nobody thought that they were worth more because they used to belong to a famous person.

 

[Altitude sickness]

I think there are a lot of hunters that place no value in limited edition, or rare rifles, provenance of any sort etc. To them the hunt and the animal are most important, and they would hunt with an off the shelf, ugly rifle as long as it was accurate.


some place equal value on the rifle and the hunt

others value the rifle above all else, and look for an animal or a hunt to use that rifle


Then many of course love firearms, but don’t hunt at all