Practicing long crossers

[HankBuck]

And yet we don’t learn. We dumb down sporting clays just like we previously dumbed down skeet.

@WAB - I still enjoy it and admire some of the Top shooters, especially after seeing them in person. Also kids 14 - 16 years old that are AA & Master Class shooters and winning Regional level competitions. It is a great Sport and you can dominate at any age from 15 to 60, occasionally Women will keep pace with the top men - although they have a “Ladies” class. But, it is expensive and your gun ($3000 to $15,000) is the cheapest part - you’ll shoot that much $$ in ammo every few years.
Very few shooters have sponsors and prize money is minimal - payout to Win World HOA only $5000. But, what guy doesn’t want to be the “Best Shooter in the World”!….many of us already think we are

 

[chashardy]

I've heard good things about Gil & Vicki Ash of OSP, but have no personal experience with them.

I have been to their school in Houston and I recommend it. Gil and his son Bryan are excellent coaches and their teaching method is great. They also have great videos on youtube that are good teaching tools. They use Shotkam videos to help a shooter understand shot picture and matching the swing of the shotgun to the speed of the target. And of course, the real key is practice, practice, practice.
Using their technique, I don't worry to much about how much lead, but rather just mount the gun properly and focus on the target, keeping it behind the barrel, and match the speed, then take the shot. It works.

 

[BeeMaa]

What I believe @WAB is getting at is there are many different ways of teaching, and this may need to be modified depending on how the student learns.

Everyone learns in a slightly different manner as well. Trying to apply the same teaching technique on everyone will only yield so much success.

The best teachers will take the good things that a student is doing and use them as a building block for more skills in the specific discipline that the student is looking to improve upon.

The problem with a bad teaching techniques is that the student is unlikely to recognize that they are not being taught correctly or effectively, simply because they lack experience. It won't be until much later in the learning process that they look back and have this realization.

You don't know what you don't know, until you do. And sometimes that sucks.

 

[WAB]

What I believe @WAB is getting at is there are many different ways of teaching, and this may need to be modified depending on how the student learns.

Everyone learns in a slightly different manner as well. Trying to apply the same teaching technique on everyone will only yield so much success.

The best teachers will take the good things that a student is doing and use them as a building block for more skills in the specific discipline that the student is looking to improve upon.

The problem with a bad teaching techniques is that the student is unlikely to recognize that they are not being taught correctly or effectively, simply because they lack experience. It won't be until much later in the learning process that they look back and have this realization.

You don't know what you don't know, until you do. And sometimes that sucks.

There are also different shooting styles being taught. Do a little research, determine what you believe to be the correct approach, and ensure any instructor you hire teaches that approach. I have seen some excellent coaches and some abysmal coaches. Certification is no guarantee of good coaching.

 

[Nevada Mike]

You can kill long crossers (or any reasonable target) with a modified choke at longer distances than you would think.

On crossers at 35 -40 yards + you really need to start seeing some lead.

 

[HankBuck]

You can kill long crossers (or any reasonable target) with a modified choke at longer distances than you would think.

On crossers at 35 -40 yards + you really need to start seeing some lead.

Improved cylinder out to 40 yrds. works consistently, modified for anything further, I wish I could blame my misses on “choke”

 

[WAB]

Improved cylinder out to 40 yrds. works consistently, modified for anything further, I wish I could blame my misses on “choke”

I was shooting the high tower at Holland & Holland a number of years ago. The top deck is 130 feet high and it throws over a valley. Midis off the top deck look like aspirin. You can absolutely crush that target with an oz of 8’s and IC.

 

[HankBuck]

I was shooting the high tower at Holland & Holland a number of years ago. The top deck is 130 feet high and it throws over a valley. Midis off the top deck look like aspirin. You can absolutely crush that target with an oz of 8’s and IC.

@WAB yep, just get your pattern on it (Not easy). The saying I’ve heard “choke affects pattern by inches - most targets are missed by feet”

 

[Tanks]

Im fortunate in that Dan is local to DFW.. For Sporting Clays, I consider him one of the best in the business.. when my youngest daughter first got into competitive shotgun shooting a couple of years ago, we sent her to Dan a couple of times for lessons... her game improved dramatically within just a few hours of spending time with Dan...

...

I have had lessons from Dan as recent as a couple of years ago, unfortunately he has lost most of his eyesight and no longer teaches.

I take weekly Sporting Clay lessons for two hours from an instructor that Dan has trained, and it is money well spent.

 

[Red Leg]

The changes to sporting clays are one reason I have largely abandoned it - and I had my fill of American skeet decades ago.

Dating to the last century, a live pigeon box bird match is still the finest shotgun game ever created. Sadly, competitively shooting feathered rats isn't legal everywhere, but where it is, there is nothing quite like it. Even with superb shooters, 25 straight over five flights is a real accomplishment.

Additionally, the requirement to put a naturally tough bird down within the ring demands fuller chokes and 1 1/4 ounce loads. There is very little room for error.

I should add, this is a very different and more difficult game than a Columbaire match where the birds are hand thrown.

 

[wesheltonj]

The changes to sporting clays are one reason I have largely abandoned it - and I had my fill of American skeet decades ago.

Dating to the last century, a live pigeon box bird match is still the finest shotgun game ever created. Sadly, competitively shooting feathered rats isn't legal everywhere, but where it is, there is nothing quite like it. Even with superb shooters, 25 straight over five flights is a real accomplishment.

Additionally, the requirement to put a naturally tough bird down within the ring demands fuller chokes and 1 1/4 ounce loads. There is very little room for error.

I should add, this is a very different and more difficult game than a Columbaire match where the birds are hand thrown.

Only have experience with hand thrown rats, not very challenging.

 

[mdwest]

I have had lessons from Dan as recent as a couple of years ago, unfortunately he has lost most of his eyesight and no longer teaches.

I take weekly Sporting Clay lessons for two hours from an instructor that Dan has trained, and it is money well spent.

He must have just stopped… we last trained with him just a little more than a year ago.. and just saw him running around in the clubhouse at Texas Gun Ranch about 3 months ago…

 

[HankBuck]

The changes to sporting clays are one reason I have largely abandoned it - and I had my fill of American skeet decades ago.

Dating to the last century, a live pigeon box bird match is still the finest shotgun game ever created. Sadly, competitively shooting feathered rats isn't legal everywhere, but where it is, there is nothing quite like it. Even with superb shooters, 25 straight over five flights is a real accomplishment.

Additionally, the requirement to put a naturally tough bird down within the ring demands fuller chokes and 1 1/4 ounce loads. There is very little room for error.

I should add, this is a very different and more difficult game than a Columbaire match where the birds are hand thrown.

@Red Leg - did you sour on Sporting Clays when the rules changed to allow a “pre mounted” gun? I understand American Skeet is a game of true perfection and anything less then running 100 straight eliminates chances of winning major events. Sporting Clays courses have become longer and more difficult then those held in the 1990s, at the Recent World Championship (held in NJ last month) only 2 shooters (out of 1500) broke 90% (barely). It seems to still be the hardest “clay” target game out there And of course there is FITASC with unmounted gun required. I know pigeons are difficult and the betting ads excitement But it’s Never going to increase in popularity - for obvious reasons… Clay birds might be all that remain to test skills.

 

[Red Leg]

@Red Leg - did you sour on Sporting Clays when the rules changed to allow a “pre mounted” gun? I understand American Skeet is a game of true perfection and anything less then running 100 straight eliminates chances of winning major events. Sporting Clays courses have become longer and more difficult then those held in the 1990s, at the Recent World Championship (held in NJ last month) only 2 shooters (out of 1500) broke 90% (barely). It seems to still be the hardest “clay” target game out there And of course there is FITASC with unmounted gun required. I know pigeons are difficult and the betting ads excitement But it’s Never going to increase in popularity - for obvious reasons… Clay birds might be all that remain to test skills.

15-20 years ago, I regularly broke nineties, usually mid-nineties depending on the course, shooting British and Continental game guns. There was a group of us who shot courses in Virginia, W. Virginia, Maryland, and Pennsylvania every weekend. Shooting required low gun and with those double triggers and fixed chokes, one of us would almost always place in any of the local competitions against the spinning choke adjustable stock OU crowd. That is essentially impossible now with longer ranges and tighter windows. It is also mildly ridiculous were the idea to replicate a hunting environment, which of course there is no longer an intent. Simply of no interest to me.

Now put me on the line in the ring with with my Cashmore ......

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I don't shoot "American" skeet (high gun). Boring and not at all practical. I shoot low gun. Can't get anyone at the club interested in international skeet (low gun and up to 3 second delay). Oh well. This club is on its way down the drain anyway. Something happened at the last annual meeting. Half the membership is now gone. I quit going to those meetings years ago. The board will just do what they want anyway. If they handed out free beer I wouldn't show up.

 

[Uxas]

long shots require a good follow through(much more important then closer shots), and as mentioned double the lead. Keep the gum moving after the shot. Yesterday on a long high fast crossing shot, Eric told Chris to double his lead, and shazam.

 

[HankBuck]

I don't shoot "American" skeet (high gun). Boring and not at all practical. I shoot low gun. Can't get anyone at the club interested in international skeet (low gun and up to 3 second delay). Oh well. This club is on its way down the drain anyway. Something happened at the last annual meeting. Half the membership is now gone. I quit going to those meetings years ago. The board will just do what they want anyway. If they handed out free beer I wouldn't show up.

@Ontario Hunter - agree American Skeet can be boring but I still admire great skeet shooters that run 100 straight…and I was very pleased when I finally shot my first 25 straight 30 years ago. But I never broke 50 and getting up to a low 90s average in a few registered shoots Was the best I could do. Then, it got “stale” and every round I shot that was less then 25 straight was a “disappointment” — and shooting 90-94 rarely even placed in B class. It was a game of “perfection” and required concentration that I did Not have. Switched to shoot skeet Low gun, enjoyed it more and within a few weeks - shot as well as ever, still low 90s and some straight rounds. There was no Sporting Clays within 75 miles but at least Low Gun made skeet fun again (for me). My Son also shot Low gun and much better then me. He entered our State Championships one year and placed 2nd in 28 ga - the only shooter shooting a “pump” (Rem Wingmaster) and also Low Gun. Some shooters in his squad “complained” that his shooting Low Gun was a “distraction” to them…..that’s how “fussy” some skeet shooters can be and guess Trap Shooters might be as well. He also placed 2nd in Doubles (winning a 3 way shoot off for 2nd) shooting a 12 ga Benelli semi —- and one shooter there also criticized him for shooting Low Gun. Some guys are only happy shooting “perfect scores” - I’m just Not good enough and I’m “happy with that”.

 

[Mike Van Horn]

Had this happen to me yesterday. Went to a new coarse, thrower was roughly 35 yds to the left at about a 45 degree angle. Clay went high and fast to the right crossing at a 45 degree angle away. Clay was at 45 yards before l could get on it and fast. 4 tries and never touched it. Kept increasing the lead. 4 shooters in my bunch, no one hit it. I ended with a 83. Normally l am high 80’s low 90’s

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Had this happen to me yesterday. Went to a new coarse, thrower was roughly 35 yds to the left at about a 45 degree angle. Clay went high and fast to the right crossing at a 45 degree angle away. Clay was at 45 yards before l could get on it and fast. 4 tries and never touched it. Kept increasing the lead. 4 shooters in my bunch, no one hit it. I ended with a 83. Normally l am high 80’s low 90’s

The clay on edge at that range is a very small target. We have a similar station that gives everyone fits, especially the fellas with the mini gauges. I explained to the one 410 hotshot that the targets were likely flying through his IC pattern at that range. He was under the assumption that a 410 has a smaller diameter pattern than my twelve gauge. Nope! Same diameter but with pellets much more dispersed. I advised him to switch to full choke. The following week he did and only missed two of eight. Usually he was lucky if he could break two. I typically switch my twelve gauge from skeet to modified and always break more than half. At least a couple times during the season I'll break them all. Which is not bad for an old Mr Magoo who's literally half blind with crappy reflexes and shooting a worn out ugly A5 low gun. Making the game challenging is easy enough for me.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

@Ontario Hunter - agree American Skeet can be boring but I still admire great skeet shooters that run 100 straight…and I was very pleased when I finally shot my first 25 straight 30 years ago. But I never broke 50 and getting up to a low 90s average in a few registered shoots Was the best I could do. Then, it got “stale” and every round I shot that was less then 25 straight was a “disappointment” — and shooting 90-94 rarely even placed in B class. It was a game of “perfection” and required concentration that I did Not have. Switched to shoot skeet Low gun, enjoyed it more and within a few weeks - shot as well as ever, still low 90s and some straight rounds. There was no Sporting Clays within 75 miles but at least Low Gun made skeet fun again (for me). My Son also shot Low gun and much better then me. He entered our State Championships one year and placed 2nd in 28 ga - the only shooter shooting a “pump” (Rem Wingmaster) and also Low Gun. Some shooters in his squad “complained” that his shooting Low Gun was a “distraction” to them…..that’s how “fussy” some skeet shooters can be and guess Trap Shooters might be as well. He also placed 2nd in Doubles (winning a 3 way shoot off for 2nd) shooting a 12 ga Benelli semi —- and one shooter there also criticized him for shooting Low Gun. Some guys are only happy shooting “perfect scores” - I’m just Not good enough and I’m “happy with that”.

Several years ago I was struggling to get nineteen every week shooting skeet. At the end of the season we have a fun "flurry shoot" where a team of two shoots fifty randomly thrown targets from five throwers positioned at various places (including one station behind the shooters thrown over their heads). To practice for this fast load and fire event I decided to shoot my last round of skeet low gun. Presto! I shot 21. Must be a fluke. What the hell, I'll shoot another round. 22! No fluke. Shooting low gun kept me from overthinking the shots. I already knew this had been a problem upland hunting. Why did I fan three shots at a rooster my dog pointed for me in the open and then the next day take a double on a pair she flushed unexpectedly in thick willows next to a ditch? I consulted a well known outdoors writer and coach. He advised that I was overthinking the shots. "Slow down and stay off the gun till the last second. Shoot quicker and you will shoot better." His advice also greatly enhanced my "scores" shooting geese from cover at the edge of field with deeks at 50 yards. I try to play the wind so honkers are either coming in overhead for a landing or crossing for a look. Stay off the gun till the last second. My instincts are better than my brain.