Politics

It has been happening at State and City level for decades. Years ago we bid on an automation project for a municipality. LADWP (LA Department of Water and Power) came in and bid us out. I was pretty pissed off that an entity owned by a city was competing against the private sector and threatened to sue. They gave us a consulting contract to bill monthly amounting to the profit on that job.
Lucky for you. Not so lucky for the local ratepayers.
 
It has been happening at State and City level for decades. Years ago we bid on an automation project for a municipality. LADWP (LA Department of Water and Power) came in and bid us out. I was pretty pissed off that an entity owned by a city was competing against the private sector and threatened to sue. They gave us a consulting contract to bill monthly amounting to the profit on that job.
Completely agree...

in Memphis, TN all water and power distribution is done by Memphis Light Gas and Water.. a city owned business that has a history of corruption and incompetence since its inception.. The CEO of MLG&W is appointed by the Mayor as are most of the senior executive staff..

here in the north Dallas suburb I live in, the city has a ownership stake a hotel that is attached to a conference/convention center that the city also owns.. guess which hotel gets shown substantial preferential treatment by the city which includes the city paying for office space inside that hotel, etc..etc..

The only government owned/operated organization that provides goods or services to the private sector that I am aware of that has been reasonably successful has been the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA)... and even the TVA has seen plenty of scandals, corruption issues, etc over the years (I'd just argue that they have been managed at least as efficiently as well as competitor organizations... but that doesnt mean that I like the federal government having their hands in that particular cookie jar either)..

I REALLY HATE the idea of government at any level.. city, county, state, or federal having a hand in private sector business.. government has proven over and over and over again that it cant even manage itself well (DOGE!).. and cant manage the public services it provides well (post office, etc).. why the hell would we think they could manage the oil and gas industry? or automotive industry? or banking industry? or any other industry well?
 
Once again you fail to understand the 2nd Amendment.

If there is a change in Regime.. thats exactly why the Bill of Rights exists.. it is foundational to the system of government in the US.. the point specifically of the 2nd Amendment in the Bill of Rights is to be able to resist government/tyrants/etc..

There is a system by which the US Constitution can be amended or changed.. there are 2 specific ways..

The first requires a 2/3 majority vote in Congress... this is how all of the amendments to the US Constitution have been made so far (27 total amendments).. Its important to note that in 249 years NONE of the original 10 amendments (the Bill of Rights) have been touched in any way.. If anything, the 14th Amendment actually made the original 10 amendments (Bill of Rights) even more strong as it extended the bill of rights down to State level government as well..

Only the 18th Amendment (Prohibition) has ever been repealed by Congress.. it was repealed by the passing of the 21st Amendment..

The other way the Constitution can be amended or changed is calling a National Convention.. where 2/3 of the State legislatures demand a convention be held to propose an amendment... This has never happened.. however, key to understand, this is also the tool that keeps the first method in check.. For example if heavily populated liberal states like California, New York, and Illinois all banded together and somehow were able to obtain a 2/3 majority congressional vote on something that 2/3 of the states didnt support, the states would be able to call a National Convention and simply repeal anything that congressional 2/3 majority passed..

Another key thing to understand is one an Amendment is passed by either Congress or a National Convention, it must be ratified.. which requires 3/4 of all state legislatures to vote in favor of it (38 out of 50).. alternatively it can be ratified by a national convention where 3/4 of the attendees must vote in favor of it..

So, no.. a simple regime change cant just change the constitution or the bill of rights.. it would take 3/4 of the entire US population agreeing to that change.. and if 3/4 opposed the change and a new regime attempted to do it anyway.. thats exactly the point of the 2nd amendment.. to oppose tyrannical government..


As far as God deciding to make a change.. well... thats once again exactly what the bill or rights is telling you.. that God gave the right, not man, not government, etc..

If God chooses to disarm the entire population of the US.. its a pretty safe bet the approach he'd take would be convincing 3/4 of the population that they no longer needed/wanted to be armed.. and then they'd use the government to make the change..

Or.. alternatively, He's come back, the end times are here.. and whether or not we have a firearm should probably be the least of anyones worries..
Ok. I fail to understand.

Understanding the American Bill of rights was part of the Enlightment movement that toke place all over european nations at that time which also came to the New America. If one say the Bill of rights should protest the individual against government the principles of the Enlightment movement was the same. However thats has nothing to do with God. These sets of ideas sets man above as suprême.


Key Enlightenment Ideals
  • Reason:
    The belief that human reason is the primary source of authority and legitimacy.

  • Individualism:
    The inherent worth and freedom of the individual, emphasizing self-reliance and individual skills.

  • Liberty and Rights:
    The conviction that individuals possess natural rights and are entitled to freedoms, including the right to self-governance.

  • Progress:
    The idea that society can and should be progressively improved through reason and scientific understanding.

  • Constitutional Government:
    The advocacy for governments that are limited and accountable, rather than absolute.

  • Separation of Church and State:
    A movement to separate religious institutions from governmental power.

  • Tolerance:
    A general agreement to allow interference that one might consider illegal, applied to religious and political beliefs.
 
It has been said that if America had not experienced the "first great awakening" revival under the preaching of John Wesley and George Whitfield, that we would have had our own version of the French Revolution. I don't see evidence of the fledgling nation parroting the enlightenment.
 
Ok. I fail to understand.

Understanding the American Bill of rights was part of the Enlightment movement that toke place all over european nations at that time which also came to the New America. If one say the Bill of rights should protest the individual against government the principles of the Enlightment movement was the same. However thats has nothing to do with God. These sets of ideas sets man above as suprême.


Key Enlightenment Ideals
  • Reason:
    The belief that human reason is the primary source of authority and legitimacy.

  • Individualism:
    The inherent worth and freedom of the individual, emphasizing self-reliance and individual skills.

  • Liberty and Rights:
    The conviction that individuals possess natural rights and are entitled to freedoms, including the right to self-governance.

  • Progress:
    The idea that society can and should be progressively improved through reason and scientific understanding.

  • Constitutional Government:
    The advocacy for governments that are limited and accountable, rather than absolute.

  • Separation of Church and State:
    A movement to separate religious institutions from governmental power.

  • Tolerance:
    A general agreement to allow interference that one might consider illegal, applied to religious and political beliefs.

I think the language barrier might be interfering with our ability to communicate a little bit.. I know English is not your first language.. and I speak no European languages at all (even my English is terrible :) )....

The concepts and ideals that were placed into the US Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution were deeply influenced by the Enlightenment Movement.. Washington for example was well noted for studying British enlightenment thinkers John Locke and Adam Smith.. Jefferson's primary influencers were Locke, Francis Bacon, and Issac Newton (very well documented).. Franklin having deep ties to France (helped negotiate the Treaty of Paris in 1783... was the first US Minister to France in 1778, etc) followed French philosophers more than British thought leaders and was a fan of Descartes, and was very familiar with Cartesian ideals and the scientific method that was championed by Descartes...

The majority of the US Founding fathers were also devout Christians.. One in particular, John Witherspoon was a Presbyterian Minister.. Patrick Henry wrote in great detail about his faith and has been noted in history many times for being a man with deep Christian beliefs.. Washington, Adams, and many others were Orthodox Christians and are noted to have been strong believers, etc..

In their minds the Bill of Rights had EVERYTHING to do with God.. They specifically contribute the idea to the Natural Rights philosophy which asserts that a CREATOR endows man with UNALIENABLE RIGHTS..

Unalienable is the key word here.. it was specifically chosen when the Declaration of Independence was drafted because of what that word means in the context of Natural Rights philosophy.. The founding fathers specifically said "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness".. and then expanded on that in the Constitution by further defining the rights involved in protecting the rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness..

The founding fathers wanted to make it clear that the role of government isnt to grant rights.. those rights are granted by God.. the role of government is instead to protect those rights.. and the bill of rights establishes prohibitions against potential government actions that would infringe on those God given rights.. for example the 1st amendment prevents the government from establishing a religion or prohibiting the free exercise of religion, thereby protecting a God given right.... the 2nd amendment has been talked about ad nauseum.. it was clearly written to keep government in check against tyranny.. the 4th prevents unreasonable searches and seizures which is fundamental to the God given right of individual liberty, etc..etc..

It may require you reading past just the US Constitution and the US Declaration of Independence to fully understand the founders intentions, their beliefs, and their desires for their new nation 250 years ago... truthfully most Americans arent well read or studied enough to really understand things at their core.. and this is why so many things in the US get constitutionally challenged in the courts (we leave it to the judges to determine what was actually intended or meant in the constitution and whether or not actions violate our constitution..

What judges on both sides of the aisle (liberal and conservative) in the US will agree to... to include those that are not of any faith and have no belief in a creator.. is that when the founding fathers wrote the two documents in question, that they 100% asserted that God (again whether the judge believes in God or not) was who was granting those rights, and therefore man has no right to change things..
 
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Ok. I fail to understand.

Understanding the American Bill of rights was part of the Enlightment movement that toke place all over european nations at that time which also came to the New America. If one say the Bill of rights should protest the individual against government the principles of the Enlightment movement was the same. However thats has nothing to do with God. These sets of ideas sets man above as suprême.


Key Enlightenment Ideals
  • Reason:
    The belief that human reason is the primary source of authority and legitimacy.

  • Individualism:
    The inherent worth and freedom of the individual, emphasizing self-reliance and individual skills.

  • Liberty and Rights:
    The conviction that individuals possess natural rights and are entitled to freedoms, including the right to self-governance.

  • Progress:
    The idea that society can and should be progressively improved through reason and scientific understanding.

  • Constitutional Government:
    The advocacy for governments that are limited and accountable, rather than absolute.

  • Separation of Church and State:
    A movement to separate religious institutions from governmental power.

  • Tolerance:
    A general agreement to allow interference that one might consider illegal, applied to religious and political beliefs.
You're bumping in to American Exceptionalism.

Consider it this way: Take away the term "God Given".

Now, try and define "rights inherent in being human". This is what is meant by "natural rights".

What does it mean to be human? What rights to you have for no other reason that you are a human being?

I don't need to be of any religion at all to believe you have rights for no other reason that you are human.

Government doesn't give you these rights, you have these rights because you are human. American Exceptionalism = unlike previous governments that were developed and then forced on the populace, the populace placed LIMITS on the government. Among those limits, the government, as designed, simply does not have the authority to establish a religion or prohibit the free exercise thereof. It does not have the authority to limit what the press (information media of any type), the ability to peaceably assemble, to petition the government for a redress of grievances, or for that matter, self defense.

Much ink has been spilled over the second amendment, but I will add some bytes.
"A well regulated militia, being necessary for the security of a free state..." In other words, to ensure state sovereignty, your military had damn well better be well trained. Considering that earlier the document states that Congress shall build and maintain a Navy, and may in fact establish an Army, but it cannot be funded for more than two years at a time, you still need a well trained militia. Having been through it all, I can tell you the most difficult thing to train a militia to do is be adept at marksmanship. Yes, there are other skills that are important, training in the use of arms takes a bit more time and effort. So having access to firearms for everyone who is going to use them is probably a good idea.

Oh, and who IS the militia anyway? Well, that's not in the document, but remember that part where Congress can build and maintain a Navy, and establish an Army? They do that via US Code Title X, in paragraph 246, clearly states: "The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard." You can try and argue that once you hit 45 you're too old for the amendment to apply, but I really don't think you want to go there.

So "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." In simple terms, the right exists (inherent in being human), and the government shall not infringe that.

Also, keep in mind that in other places, only "gentlemen" were allowed to carry swords, or dirks, or other implements (to include firearms). This flips that on its head: it's not "you have to rate the ability to carry", rather you have that right just because you are a human being.

Of course, there is the argument that "modern weapons" were not imagined by the authors. But would anyone also like to use that logic with prohibiting, say, a television camera, or even the ability to print a photgraph with your printing press? For that matter, to publish electronically as we are here?

You're right, this is different than the way other countries in the world do it. It's the exception to the rule. That's why it's called "American Exceptionalism".
 
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I think the language barrier might be interfering with our ability to communicate a little bit.. I know English is not your first language.. and I speak no European languages at all (even my English is terrible :) )....

The concepts and ideals that were placed into the US Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution were deeply influenced by the Enlightenment Movement.. Washington for example was well noted for studying British enlightenment thinkers John Locke and Adam Smith.. Jefferson's primary influencers were Locke, Francis Bacon, and Issac Newton (very well documented).. Franklin having deep ties to France (helped negotiate the Treaty of Paris in 1783... was the first US Minister to France in 1778, etc) followed French philosophers more than British thought leaders and was a fan of Descartes, and was very familiar with Cartesian ideals and the scientific method that was championed by Descartes...

The majority of the US Founding fathers were also devout Christians.. One in particular, John Witherspoon was a Presbyterian Minister.. Patrick Henry wrote in great detail about his faith and has been noted in history many times for being a man with deep Christian beliefs.. Washington, Adams, and many others were Orthodox Christians and are noted to have been strong believers, etc..

In their minds the Bill of Rights had EVERYTHING to do with God.. They specifically contribute the idea to the Natural Rights philosophy which asserts that a CREATOR endows man with UNALIENABLE RIGHTS..

Unalienable is the key word here.. it was specifically chosen when the Declaration of Independence was drafted because of what that word means in the context of Natural Rights philosophy.. The founding fathers specifically said "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness".. and then expanded on that in the Constitution by further defining the rights involved in protecting the rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness..

The founding fathers wanted to make it clear that the role of government isnt to grant rights.. those rights are granted by God.. the role of government is instead to protect those rights.. and the bill of rights establishes prohibitions against potential government actions that would infringe on those God given rights.. for example the 1st amendment prevents the government from establishing a religion or prohibiting the free exercise of religion, thereby protecting a God given right.... the 2nd amendment has been talked about ad nauseum.. it was clearly written to keep government in check against tyranny.. the 4th prevents unreasonable searches and seizures which is fundamental to the God given right of individual liberty, etc..etc..

It may require you reading past just the US Constitution and the US Declaration of Independence to fully understand the founders intentions, their beliefs, and their desires for their new nation 250 years ago... truthfully most Americans arent well read or studied enough to really understand things at their core.. and this is why so many things in the US get constitutionally challenged in the courts (we leave it to the judges to determine what was actually intended or meant in the constitution and whether or not actions violate our constitution..

What judges on both sides of the aisle (liberal and conservative) in the US will agree to... to include those that are not of any faith and have no belief in a creator.. is that when the founding fathers wrote the two documents in question, that they 100% asserted that God (again whether the judge believes in God or not) was who was granting those rights, and therefore man has no right to change things..
This is true but important to note that not all of them were devout Christians even if they believed in god. Jefferson’s the best example of that. So they held and agreed belief in the natural rights of man being granted by the creator even if they didn’t agree in the details surrounding the nature of the creator and salvation.

Thats incredibly important. The rights apply to all humans no matter their belief system. Everyone in the world has those rights. That protected in this country by the bill of rights. It is sad that people in many other countries have those rights infringed unprotected and infringed upon.
 
100% spot on.. the reasoning behind using "Creator" rather than "God" or a formal Christian name for God (Yahweh, Jehovah, El Shaddai, etc.. as used in the Christian bible)..
 
Gold is north of $3500 today. Inflation indicator. Calls into question a Fed rate cut, but I guess they are looking at the jobs report (which Trump criticized and fired that person for reporting low numbers). The current consensus is a 25 basis point cut in September, with additional cuts next year.



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Completely agree...

in Memphis, TN all water and power distribution is done by Memphis Light Gas and Water.. a city owned business that has a history of corruption and incompetence since its inception.. The CEO of MLG&W is appointed by the Mayor as are most of the senior executive staff..

here in the north Dallas suburb I live in, the city has a ownership stake a hotel that is attached to a conference/convention center that the city also owns.. guess which hotel gets shown substantial preferential treatment by the city which includes the city paying for office space inside that hotel, etc..etc..

The only government owned/operated organization that provides goods or services to the private sector that I am aware of that has been reasonably successful has been the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA)... and even the TVA has seen plenty of scandals, corruption issues, etc over the years (I'd just argue that they have been managed at least as efficiently as well as competitor organizations... but that doesnt mean that I like the federal government having their hands in that particular cookie jar either)..

I REALLY HATE the idea of government at any level.. city, county, state, or federal having a hand in private sector business.. government has proven over and over and over again that it cant even manage itself well (DOGE!).. and cant manage the public services it provides well (post office, etc).. why the hell would we think they could manage the oil and gas industry? or automotive industry? or banking industry? or any other industry well?
I totally agree. However, there is an interesting offshoot of TVA that may not have been driven in the private sector. TVA initiated enhanced efficiency fertilizer development back in the 50’s. This resulted in Sulfur Coated Urea which set the stage for the development of many spinoff technologies in the private sector.

The fertilizer development arm was spun off into a nonprofit that still resides on the TVA campus, IFDC. They continue to be a world leader in the development of enhanced efficiency fertilizer technologies.

I wonder if these advances would have been possible without the inputs of public money?
 
I totally agree. However, there is an interesting offshoot of TVA that may not have been driven in the private sector. TVA initiated enhanced efficiency fertilizer development back in the 50’s. This resulted in Sulfur Coated Urea which set the stage for the development of many spinoff technologies in the private sector.

The fertilizer development arm was spun off into a nonprofit that still resides on the TVA campus, IFDC. They continue to be a world leader in the development of enhanced efficiency fertilizer technologies.

I wonder if these advances would have been possible without the inputs of public money?

Thanks for sharing that. I had no idea.. and I grew up in TN, spent another 10 years later in life living back in TN again… and my father in law retired as an executive in the ag industry… his specialty was fertilizers and hybridizing crop plants to make them more productive and efficient in certain fertilized soils…

You’d think I would have been aware :)
 
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I totally agree. However, there is an interesting offshoot of TVA that may not have been driven in the private sector. TVA initiated enhanced efficiency fertilizer development back in the 50’s. This resulted in Sulfur Coated Urea which set the stage for the development of many spinoff technologies in the private sector.

The fertilizer development arm was spun off into a nonprofit that still resides on the TVA campus, IFDC. They continue to be a world leader in the development of enhanced efficiency fertilizer technologies.

I wonder if these advances would have been possible without the inputs of public money?

Go back further. That local fertilizer industry morphed from the idle munitions and explosive plants in Alabama.


  • During World War I, the U.S. government built two nitrate plants and a dam at Muscle Shoals, Alabama, to create explosives for munitions.
  • The project was not completed before the war ended, leaving the plants unused.
  • When the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA) was established during the Great Depression in 1933, it acquired these idle plants and the Wilson Dam.
  • TVA re-engineered the nitrate plants to produce high-quality phosphate fertilizer, demonstrating a new peacetime purpose for the wartime facilities. ”
 
This is true but important to note that not all of them were devout Christians even if they believed in god. Jefferson’s the best example of that. So they held and agreed belief in the natural rights of man being granted by the creator even if they didn’t agree in the details surrounding the nature of the creator and salvation.

Thats incredibly important. The rights apply to all humans no matter their belief system. Everyone in the world has those rights. That protected in this country by the bill of rights. It is sad that people in many other countries have those rights infringed unprotected and infringed upon.
100% spot on.. the reasoning behind using "Creator" rather than "God" or a formal Christian name for God (Yahweh, Jehovah, El Shaddai, etc.. as used in the Christian bible)..
Exactly. That is exactly the concept behind the universal rights of man.

Many of the founders, as products of the enlightenment and including among others Washington, Franklin, and Jefferson, were "deists" rather than actual followers of a particular denomination. Deism incorporates the notion of a belief in the existence of a single creator God, but largely rejects the concept of revealed religion, instead relying on reason and nature to understand the divine. Deism abhors dogma. Hence, the focus by the founders on the creator given natural rights of man. This does not mean that they did not participate in religious services or ceremonies. The majority would have been considered Anglican. However that attendance was more of a social responsibility than adherence to a particular set of beliefs created by men rather than the creator.

Freemasonry, which also grew out of the enlightenment, was embraced by many of the founders where much of its symbology found its way into our national symbols - pull out a dollar bill. Deism provided a non-dogmatic but also non-sectarian foundation for an organization with members of different faiths.

The French revolution was also seeded by the enlightenment, but sprang from a far more totalitarian political environment abetted by an omnipresent Roman Catholic church and was therefore inevitably far more socially violent. The French revolutionaries were as critical of the role of the church and by extension the existence of a creator as they were the royal government. These were ideas which Napoleon exploited beyond the terror as he continued to emasculate the power of the church and appropriate its wealth to fund his military machine and civil projects.
 
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