Politics

[steve white]

@yamoon here is a cliff note version if you don’t want to bother looking back to the multiple times it’s been covered in the past.

In 1970 or so there was a crisis in the dairy industry in North America. Two countries took too drastically different approaches to dealing with the issue.

Canada adopted a quota system where the amount of milk on the market was controlled in order to keep prices high enough for the farmer to make a living while still low enough for the customer to afford. This quota is measured by kgs of butterfat with one kg being roughly equal to the amount of milk produced by one cow per day. This quota system gives a monetary value to the amount of market share controlled by each farmer that they can leverage, borrow against and ultimately sell when they choose to retire.

America instead of instituting a quota system directly subsidized dairy production, some years up to 73% of dairy returns are dirict government subsidies. These subsidies routinely run into the billions of dollars annually. View attachment 681284

Now on to trade , Canada as part of a trade agreement allows a set amount of u.s. dairy onto the Canadian market and only after that threshold is met is there then a 215% tariff applied.

98% of Canadian dairy farms are still family owned they make a moderate living in a difficult sector. The average size of a Canadian dairy herd is 77 cows. It costs currently 28000 dollars to add 1 kg of quota or 1 cow to the farm.

How can Canadian dairy farmers operating within a carefully managed sector compete with American producers who have no restrictions and routinely overproduce for government funding?

The only actual way to fairly trade dairy would be for the u.s. to stop subsidies which would have a domino effect where prices wouldn’t support the size of u.s. diary herds leading to mass beefing out of herds which would then short supply on the domestic market increasing price to a level sustainable for the farmer with his smaller herd. Thus making it unnecessary to offshore milk as there would no longer be a surplus of u.s. milk on the market.

Everybody everywhere is protectionist. A long time back I recall certain African countries trying to sell their cotton internationally. In a purely open market capitalism, they would have succeeded. But, for example, Greece had such a cotton subsidy to keep their farmers going, they they paid more for the subsidy than the actual price of purchasing African cotton. The Africans were shut out of some such markets, and since China is one of the greatest cotton producers, they didn't care to buy any, either. (one reason China offering zero tariffs both ways to Africa results in no benefit to Africa--they don't want their manufactured stuff, anyway.) Sure, it's a tangled mess, which makes making money off of tariffs a more difficult proposition IMO than than it was in the 1800's.

 

[steve white]

“No one is above the law”….. Prison orange is the new black…

I was more in favor of seeing a group photo, with more guilty libs in the shot....lol

 

[deewayne2003]

So you’ve developed your opinion of Canadians watching CNN? I suppose Canadians could develop their opinion of Americans by watching the same news agency, George Floyd, BLM, ANTIFA, quite a pretty picture they paint of our nation.

Not solely from CNN, other news outlets and many trips to Canada until the disaster of a moose hunt in Ontario in 2017 that made up my mind to never return, combined with the emotional outbursts by Canadians on this forum that blame everything other than their own government for the current state of affairs before tariffs were in the spotlight.

I’m sure there are many reasons you immigrated but you yourself have stated on this forum that you believe yours rights are better protected in the USA than in Canada.

Although I do admire Canadians tenacity when dealing with threats on a micro level, like when dozens of seal hunters surrounded a hotel full of PETA protestors…..

 

[steve white]

@Vashper trust me comrade, nobody in the West ever thinks or talks about invading Russia. We don’t want your land but would love to visit, tour and hunt with you. You could be completely surrounded by NATO countries and you would never be invaded. Actually, that would be the safest outcome for everyone because your leaders are the invaders. The only thing we wish for is for Russians to someday somehow come to your senses and become a democratic republic with capitalism instead of the oligarchy and kleptocracy you’re in now. You do realize that your oligarchs share earnings with Putin, do you not? How did Putin get so rich otherwise?

Why can’t your leaders just enjoy your vast beautiful country and build it up without coveting your neighbors and former Soviet republics? Your country has vast resources and could be a strong country but you’re too worried about expanding your borders to invest in your own country. Such a shame. Your potential is endless and pissed away.

It makes me recall the appalling expense Albania once undertook to build thousands of concrete based metal spikes, turned skyward to impale any incoming (and fully expected) American paratroopers. And we think we know how to waste money.

 

[yamoon]

No, I didn’t terminate due to your facts, it’s just going downhill. I certainly don’t agree with President Trump’s 51st state bull or other insults, but drastic action is required before this country falls into bankruptcy. I think I’ll go shoot some holes in paper.
Mike

 

[Hunt anything]

No, I didn’t terminate due to your facts, it’s just going downhill. I certainly don’t agree with President Trump’s 51st state bull or other insults, but drastic action is required before this country falls into bankruptcy. I think I’ll go shoot some holes in paper.
Mike

In reality I don’t think that there are very many US citizens that take the 51st state seriously either. There is a small handful of people here that do take every word that Trump says literally but I believe most of us have learned to take a lot of it with a grain of salt.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

In reality I don’t think that there are very many US citizens that take the 51st state seriously either. There is a small handful of people here that do take every word that Trump says literally but I believe most of us have learned to take a lot of it with a grain of salt.

That is a perfect example of the problem, when did it become ok for the president of America to spout of nonsense and lies with no one holding him accountable. Why does he get a pass? He’s speaking on behalf of you and every other American citizen, at the head of the largest military in world and has access to nuclear weapons but when he spouts off randomly you all just brush it off.

If joe Biden had called into question the sovereignty of Canada , attempted territorial gains in Greenland and started a trade war would you all of brushed it off as “we don’t take him seriously”

@Hunt anything that is not a personal shot at you either simply using your post to make a point.

 

[yamoon]

My thoughts exactly:

 

[Pheroze]

The last true conservative to hold office in North America. I wish Harper would run again he has done a few campaign events this election and seems to be as sharp as ever.

Honestly we have not had a Prime Minster who deviated from Pierre Elliot Trudeau concept of a centralized government. Our constitution gives most of the power to the Provinces and the only province to hold true to that is Quebec. Pierre Pollieve is a refreshing bit of sanity to the constitutional situation. I think he will reset things if given a chance. Harper had no desire to as it didn’t suit his centralized ideology.

 

[Pheroze]

Not solely from CNN, other news outlets and many trips to Canada until the disaster of a moose hunt in Ontario in 2017 that made up my mind to never return, combined with the emotional outbursts by Canadians on this forum that blame everything other than their own government for the current state of affairs before tariffs were in the spotlight.

I’m sure there are many reasons you immigrated but you yourself have stated on this forum that you believe yours rights are better protected in the USA than in Canada.

Although I do admire Canadians tenacity when dealing with threats on a micro level, like when dozens of seal hunters surrounded a hotel full of PETA protestors…..
View attachment 681290

This is honestly ridiculous. Your ignorance is just hard to deal with. When the Marines march around with the Canadian flag upside down are they displaying emotional instability that you dislike. Do you have any idea why the seal hunt became so important after the government organized the dog slaughter in the artic? The MAGA crowd has to be the most hysterical bunch of precious people that the modern era has seen. It’s a dam good thing generations of hard working, university educated and internationally cultured Americans have created such advantages for your group to feel proud about and leverage. Otherwise you and Trump would be just a hysterical fringe group. Reagan knew how to control this aspect of American culture but the Bush duo let you folks out into the open to the enduring detriment of the rest of the USA and the world.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Honestly we have not had a Prime Minster who deviated from Pierre Elliot Trudeau concept of a centralized government. Our constitution gives most of the power to the Provinces and the only province to hold true to that is Quebec. Pierre Pollieve is a refreshing bit of sanity to the constitutional situation. I think he will reset things if given a chance. Harper had no desire to as it didn’t suit his centralized ideology.

I agree pollieve would be the best choice I don’t know if we’ll be able to get him elected. He draws too easy of comparisons to the trump at a time when a when that is a campaign hurdle. I truely hope he is prime minister in a weeks time. In a perfect world carney and Singh wouldn’t even take their seats. Atleast with Singh it’s a real possibility.

 

[Datchew]

That is a perfect example of the problem, when did it become ok for the president of America to spout of nonsense and lies with no one holding him accountable.

Obama

 

[Tbitty]

the fact is the conservatives had a commanding lead until Trump began the trade war. Once that began, the country seemed to unify behind the government in power (Liberals).

Your observation may be (and by the reported data, is) true, but The question I have is WHY? Love, hate, or indifference to Trump should have absolutely no bearing on electing the leader of your country, with the lone exception for a small percentage of how next leader will deal with him. And we can be positive Trump will not respect any libtard, so conservatives automatically have a leg up in that category.

I cannot understand why Canadians suddenly feel more liberal leadership is going to change their lives for the better when they have 9 years of proof to the contrary. Voting liberal is to your own stupidity. *note: that "you" is any liberal voter, not any specific individual

Trump absolutely spews too much BS, and I wish he would learn to keep his mouth shut. But I've said it before and I'll say it again: the vast majority of his actual actions have and continue to make my life better, especially compared to what could have been with the alternates.

 

[Tbitty]

If joe Biden had called into question the sovereignty of Canada , attempted territorial gains in Greenland and started a trade war would you all of brushed it off as “we don’t take him seriously.

I didn't take anything Joe said, tried to say, was said to have said, or slept through and forgot to say seriously.

the world is much better with him in retirement.

 

[Scott CWO]

After Trump’s latest post on TruthSocial, we can only hope that he is waking up to being played by Putin. Putin needs to be told that we will fully supply Ukraine unless Putin agrees to a peace deal. Further sanctions would be a joke and a show of weakness, not force.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Your observation may be (and by the reported data, is) true, but The question I have is WHY? Love, hate, or indifference to Trump should have absolutely no bearing on electing the leader of your country, with the lone exception for a small percentage of how next leader will deal with him. And we can be positive Trump will not respect any libtard, so conservatives automatically have a leg up in that category.

I cannot understand why Canadians suddenly feel more liberal leadership is going to change their lives for the better when they have 9 years of proof to the contrary. Voting liberal is to your own stupidity. *note: that "you" is any liberal voter, not any specific individual

Trump absolutely spews too much BS, and I wish he would learn to keep his mouth shut. But I've said it before and I'll say it again: the vast majority of his actual actions have and continue to make my life better, especially compared to what could have been with the alternates.

best I can figure living through it and seeing it play out around me the issue is that pollieve is standoffish in his own right and at times argumentative. Leading to an easy attack campaign that draws comparisons between him and trump. The conservatives also for the most part failed to shift quickly enough with the political landscape when it took a hard turn away from carbon tax and spending issues.

Leads to a perfect storm for a political disaster

Trump attacks Canadas economy and questions sovereignty

The liberals oust Trudeau and elect carney

Pollieve drops the ball with the shifting political landscape and fails to loose his attack dog persona

Liberals run a successful attack campaign drawing comparisons between trump and pollieve

Carney appears unthreatening quiet and mild mannered in comparison.

Carney presents a history of international finance in a trade war.

The vote will most likely be decided by the segment of the population that generally doesn’t vote and is asleep to the real issues at play. The only reason they are voting is because trump started the ball rolling.

What it most likely leads to is a liberal majority electing a business man with known financial ties to China that hasn’t had to disclose his finances because of timing of the election.

 

[Hunt anything]

That is a perfect example of the problem, when did it become ok for the president of America to spout of nonsense and lies with no one holding him accountable. Why does he get a pass? He’s speaking on behalf of you and every other American citizen, at the head of the largest military in world and has access to nuclear weapons but when he spouts off randomly you all just brush it off.

If joe Biden had called into question the sovereignty of Canada , attempted territorial gains in Greenland and started a trade war would you all of brushed it off as “we don’t take him seriously”

@Hunt anything that is not a personal shot at you either simply using your post to make a point.

Very fair point, we as citizens of any country should take it seriously if a leader starts talking about expansion be it war or by whatever means. I should have added that we have to be able to read people and their actions. We probably all know people that if they say they are going to do something you can bank on it but we also probably know people that you really have to just wait and see.
The problem with our leaders is they have the future of their country and people and in some cases the world in their hands.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

I didn't take anything Joe said, tried to say, was said to have said, or slept through and forgot to say seriously.

the world is much better with him in retirement.

And the world will be much better off with trump in retirement.

 

[Red Leg]

The same people praising Trump's genius, including the "journalists" who they follow, would be screaming in outrage were a democrat preparing to institute a punitive tariff system that would raise domestic prices (we call that inflation in other conversations). In fairness, the democrats would be slavishly praising it. Original informed opinion is a rare commodity these days.

 

[WAB]

Your observation may be (and by the reported data, is) true, but The question I have is WHY? Love, hate, or indifference to Trump should have absolutely no bearing on electing the leader of your country, with the lone exception for a small percentage of how next leader will deal with him. And we can be positive Trump will not respect any libtard, so conservatives automatically have a leg up in that category.

I cannot understand why Canadians suddenly feel more liberal leadership is going to change their lives for the better when they have 9 years of proof to the contrary. Voting liberal is to your own stupidity. *note: that "you" is any liberal voter, not any specific individual

Trump absolutely spews too much BS, and I wish he would learn to keep his mouth shut. But I've said it before and I'll say it again: the vast majority of his actual actions have and continue to make my life better, especially compared to what could have been with the alternates.

Why did Democrats align with George Bush after 911? Because we were a nation under attack and we aligned to fight a common enemy.

This seems to be a similar dynamic. Canadians feel that they are under attack. This doesn’t have to make sense to you, but it is their reality. The emotion you are seeing on this thread is indicative of what I saw with family and friends last weekend. And to be clear, these are very conservative folks. They feel that they are under attack and that Trump is in many instances over reaching his constitutional authority. This may not make sense from where you sit, but it certainly seems to be the reality on the ground.