Politics

[Altitude sickness]

Tubby’s, I feel the Canadian voter is using Trumps childish rhetoric as an excuse to keep voting for handouts and “free” stuff. Once a society goes full liberal there’s no going back. Unfortunately your cities decide who is PM. What are your thoughts.

 

[yamoon]

In the 25 years I worked for NCR, I spent a lot of time with Canadians , I always considered them just like me except a little more civilized. I also spent a lot of time with Australians, I always considered them just like me except a little less civilized. All joking aside, I for one feel a little uneasy every time Trump insults our northern neighbors. All of that being said, we have to get a handle on our out of control debt. Speaking of that, Canada holds 780 billion dollars of US debt, the only way to accumulate that is thru trade imbalance and certainly some of that is thru unfair tariffs on Canada’s part.
Mike

 

[Datchew]

The question was in regard to Baltic NATO members, Ukraine is not a member of NATO and is not covered. Article 5 is not optional if one has signed onto NATO, it is the heart of the treaty. That being said, I don't trust Trump honoring any treaties he doesn't like.

Recommend you re-read the part in the article about "such action as it deems necessary"

Military action is apparently optional.

NATO Article 5

 

[WAB]

Tubby’s, I feel the Canadian voter is using Trumps childish rhetoric as an excuse to keep voting for handouts and “free” stuff. Once a society goes full liberal there’s no going back. Unfortunately your cities decide who is PM. What are your thoughts.

You may be right, but the fact is the conservatives had a commanding lead until Trump began the trade war. Once that began, the country seemed to unify behind the government in power (Liberals).

My father-in-law, a staunch Canadian conservative, commented on the situation by saying ‘the masses are asses’.

 

[Scott CWO]

Unbelievable....well maybe not with this lot....

Ukraine: All smiles as Vladimir Putin meets Donald's Trump's envoy

As Russia and the US seek to repair ties, could they secure a peace deal acceptable to Ukraine, asks the BBC's Russia editor.

www.bbc.com

Maybe they will run off together and have babies.

 

[Datchew]

Study history not Kool-Aid.

Done. Successfully and without being snookered by the propaganda into delusions of good guys and bad guys like a bad western or a disney movie.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Tubby’s, I feel the Canadian voter is using Trumps childish rhetoric as an excuse to keep voting for handouts and “free” stuff. Once a society goes full liberal there’s no going back. Unfortunately your cities decide who is PM. What are your thoughts.

That is a fair amount of the problem, we desperately need an electoral reform to redistribute the vote power more equally to all of the provinces. The issue with that is it’ll never happen with the liberals in power because they gain the most from the imbalance.

You’re wrong on the “free stuff” the “free stuff” liberals always vote liberal anyway, this election is going to be decided by the segment of the population that doesn’t vote generally, all they see is trump being a threat to Canada they have rallied behind carney. This election is going to have record turn out 1/6 Canadians have already voted.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

In the 25 years I worked for NCR, I spent a lot of time with Canadians , I always considered them just like me except a little more civilized. I also spent a lot of time with Australians, I always considered them just like me except a little less civilized. All joking aside, I for one feel a little uneasy every time Trump insults our northern neighbors. All of that being said, we have to get a handle on our out of control debt. Speaking of that, Canada holds 780 billion dollars of US debt, the only way to accumulate that is thru trade imbalance and certainly some of that is thru unfair tariffs on Canada’s part.
Mike

Because Canada holds u.s. treasury bonds we must unfairly tariff you?

 

[Altitude sickness]

That is a fair amount of the problem, we desperately need an electoral reform to redistribute the vote power more equally to all of the provinces. The issue with that is it’ll never happen with the liberals in power because they gain the most from the imbalance.

You’re wrong on the “free stuff” the “free stuff” liberals always vote liberal anyway, this election is going to be decided by the segment of the population that doesn’t vote generally, all they see is trump being a threat to Canada they have rallied behind carney. This election is going to have record turn out 1/6 Canadians have already voted.

So what do they think a liberal will do about Trump?

 

[yamoon]

Because Canada holds u.s. treasury bonds we must unfairly tariff you?

Considering the tariffs Canada levied on US farm products, yes I would say they were unfair tariffs
Mike

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

So what do they think a liberal will do about Trump?

I never voted for carney I voted conservative and have in every election sense I’ve been old enough to vote, I’m not sure why I keep getting looped in with the liberals I’ve stated here on multiple occasions I’m a voting member of the Conservative Party. Oxford the cat was the one who spoke out one here in support of carney.

What do I expect carney to do? What ever is in the best interests of Brookfield asset management.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Considering the tariffs Canada levied on US farm products, yes I would say they were unfair tariffs
Mike

I’ve explained the issue to death look back and you’ll find it about every 40 pages, the problem with u.s. farm products is that your government Sponsors them and they over produce to gain governmental funding. 73% percent of dairy returns are due to dirict government funding.

If I knew how I’d type up a pdf so I didn’t have to type it out every 40 pages.

 

[1dirthawker]

Actually, Y2K fears were real in a lot of instances.

i would say, maybe, maybe not. i worked in the electronics field for 20 years prior to y2k, and a couple years after. it was mostly a big shrug for my company and all my compadres in the military thought that it was a similar thing (a lot of fuss over not much).

because i spent a bit of time testing equipment before y2k to make sure it would not glitch everything (telephone, microwave, computers, data processors, remoting eq. multiplexers etc and ground radar and associated equipment in the 20 years prior) when the calendar rolled over. i asked people in other disciplines if they had any problems worthy of note regarding the y2k monster. the collective answer was "nope" a lot of concern over nothing.

obviously you had some issues to iron out, but, from my experience it was a great big fat "nothing burger".

 

[yamoon]

From CBN:
Canada uses "supply management" policies for certain agricultural products to control prices, maintain food safety standards and protect the dairy, egg and poultry industries from foreign competition — policies which have long irritated trade partners such as the U.S. and New Zealand, another big dairy producer.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

From CBN:
Canada uses "supply management" policies for certain agricultural products to control prices, maintain food safety standards and protect the dairy, egg and poultry industries from foreign competition — policies which have long irritated trade partners such as the U.S. and New Zealand, another big dairy producer.

Absolutely we do , we use a quota system, the u.s. instead of using a quota system directly subsidizes ag production. Because of subsidies and the revenues they generate you then over produce and need to offshore product or dump.

What is ironic is that America demands we drop dairy tariff’s yet accuses Canada of subsidies in softwood lumber for leasing crown land to logging companies and imposed a tariff on soft wood lumber because of it.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

@yamoon here is a cliff note version if you don’t want to bother looking back to the multiple times it’s been covered in the past.

In 1970 or so there was a crisis in the dairy industry in North America. Two countries took too drastically different approaches to dealing with the issue.

Canada adopted a quota system where the amount of milk on the market was controlled in order to keep prices high enough for the farmer to make a living while still low enough for the customer to afford. This quota is measured by kgs of butterfat with one kg being roughly equal to the amount of milk produced by one cow per day. This quota system gives a monetary value to the amount of market share controlled by each farmer that they can leverage, borrow against and ultimately sell when they choose to retire.

America instead of instituting a quota system directly subsidized dairy production, some years up to 73% of dairy returns are dirict government subsidies. These subsidies routinely run into the billions of dollars annually.

Now on to trade , Canada as part of a trade agreement allows a set amount of u.s. dairy onto the Canadian market and only after that threshold is met is there then a 215% tariff applied.

98% of Canadian dairy farms are still family owned they make a moderate living in a difficult sector. The average size of a Canadian dairy herd is 77 cows. It costs currently 28000 dollars to add 1 kg of quota or 1 cow to the farm.

How can Canadian dairy farmers operating within a carefully managed sector compete with American producers who have no restrictions and routinely overproduce for government funding?

The only actual way to fairly trade dairy would be for the u.s. to stop subsidies which would have a domino effect where prices wouldn’t support the size of u.s. diary herds leading to mass beefing out of herds which would then short supply on the domestic market increasing price to a level sustainable for the farmer with his smaller herd. Thus making it unnecessary to offshore milk as there would no longer be a surplus of u.s. milk on the market.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Absolutely we do , we use a quota system, the u.s. instead of using a quota system directly subsidizes ag production. Because of subsidies and the revenues they generate you then over produce and need to offshore product or dump.

What is ironic is that America demands we drop dairy tariff’s yet accuses Canada of subsidies in softwood lumber for leasing crown land to logging companies and imposed a tariff on soft wood lumber because of it.

The US dairy industry practices are completely jacked up and work against its own interests.

Prices and margins are low because demand has reduced. Then due to shrinking margins. The only way to survive is to grow. Economy of scale.

So huge dairy farms produce too much milk and then drive out the small producers. Flood the market with more milk than is consumed. The government doesn’t want our AG business to collapse so we subsidize. It would be easier to stop subsidies and let the strong survive. But when that has been tried, foreign investors buy up all the dairy farms. And I’m sure there are more details I’m not aware of.

The small 3-5 generation dairy farmers are the ones the subsidies keep alive. No one wants to be responsible for small farmers having to sell land that’s been in their families for a century or more.

But that doesn’t mean Canadian dairy farmers should pay the price to keep our farmers in business.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Hope you all like the above post, I’m going to attempt to save it so I can just copy pas

The US dairy industry practices are completely jacked up and work against its own interests.

Prices and margins are low because demand has reduced. Then due to shrinking margins. The only way to survive is to grow. Economy of scale.

So huge dairy farms produce too much milk and then drive out the small producers. Flood the market with more milk than is consumed. The government doesn’t want our AG business to collapse so we subsidize. It would be easier to stop subsidies and let the strong survive. But when that has been tried, foreign investors buy up all the dairy farms. And I’m sure there are more details I’m not aware of.

The small 3-5 generation dairy farmers are the ones the subsidies keep alive. No one wants to be responsible for small farmers having to sell land that’s been in their families for a century or more.

But that doesn’t mean Canadian dairy farmers should pay the price to keep our farmers in business.

the smaller producers would be protected if you all implemented a quota system and place a value on the amount of market share they control. The problem is the u.s. dairy herd would need to be reduced to a size inline with domestic needs in order to implement an effective quota system. Our dairy board also keeps foreign investment out of the dairy industry.

 

[yamoon]

Tired of this whole argument, you will never convince me trade is fair and I will never convince you it is unfair. I don’t want this to degenerate into name calling, as I said I like Canadians. One of my wife and my most enjoyable vacations was Toronto to Vancouver by train in 2018.
Mike

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Tired of this whole argument, you will never convince me trade is fair and I will never convince you it is unfair. I don’t want this to degenerate into name calling, as I said I like Canadians. One of my wife and my most enjoyable vacations was Toronto to Vancouver by train in 2018.
Mike

I’m glad you had an enjoyable time in Canada, as to trade we’ll have to agree to disagree I’ve provided all of the facts to back up my position where as you cited one source that says the u.s. and N.Z. Is angry that can’t have open access to the Canadian market and then when presented with the facts you decide you no longer want to participate in the discussion.

I’m tired of having to type out the same points on the dairy industry every forty or so pages because trump spouts off it’s unfair and blind followers ( not saying you in this case ) take it as gospel without doing any amount of due diligence on the subject.