Politics

I don’t follow your argument I was addressing the supposed trade deficit and provided numbers. If you work the numbers out per capita every Canadian out spends every American by 7000 in the others respective country. Meaning 7000 more of my dollars went into boosting your economy than you returned. If Americans matched Canadians dollar for dollar in cross boarder spending the trade deficit would be 2.38 trillion more annually. So essentially it comes down to trump being pissed we have a smaller population. For some reason trump thinks it’s logical for a population of 40 million to match the spending of a population of 340 million. The fact that we only have a 63billion trade deficit should be impressive.

Those numbers are not based on peoples cross boarder shopping habits there based on import export in trade. I’m not sure your argument has any real bearing. I simply took the same numbers of import/export used to find the trade deficit and then divided it by the respective population of each country to find the per capita.

As for the authoritarian comments I’ll direct you back to Oxford the cat I believe he is the one who made the come your referencing or perhaps Brian. I’ve spoken out about our liberal government in the past and still have no love for them. The last couple years my father could work at all he drove truck, I had friends involved in that protest all be it in a iroc not a truck. The majority of truckers we know were/are log haulers.
Noted on the authoritarian... Yes, many have said the same thing about current events, but no one really spoke out on the other at the time.

As far as the trade, my point is less about cross border shopping, and more about availability. If Canadians produce less products, whether by manufacturing or any other good, and Americans produce more (not surprising considering the population differences) then more goods are available to the south, and of course the northerners will chase those goods. That's the point about Honda production. If the only "Domestic" Hondas are two available models, and the other popular Hondas are made in the US, then yes, Canadians will spend more on the available US Hondas then the Canadian ones. Similarly, If Honda makes models in both the US and Canada, it's likely they will not be purchasing a Canadian made model when the US model is close at hand.

To clarify, I'm going to pick on the 1966 Corvair, because I know a bit about Corvairs, and because the production numbers are small enough to illustrate the point.

In 1966, the Corvair was manufactured in Oshawa, Willow Run, and Van Nuys. Oshawa produced a total of 5921 cars. Now, I'm trying to find sales numbers for Corvairs in the US and Canada, but those numbers are more difficult to find. Considering the Corvair had over 1% of the market share in 1966, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that more than 6,000 Corvairs were sold in Canada. Hence, some were imported from Van Nuys or Willow Run. Additionally, every one of those engines was made in Tonawanda, NY. So yes, a lot of Canadian dollars are going to head south. Of course, in 1967, tariff changes made the manufacture of Corvairs in Oshawa less profitable, and the Corvair went down to about 0.25% of the market share. Canadians still bought a few. And the Oshawa plant started making Firebirds and Camaros. Was every Firebird and Camaro sold in Canada built in Oshawa? Not remotely.

Yes, those are very old numbers. But they reflect the point. The US makes a lot of "stuff", and makes a lot more "stuff" than Canada does. So if a Canadian wants "stuff", he can buy domestic or foreign, and there's a lot more available foreign "stuff". On the other hand, if an American wants "stuff", the "stuff" available from Canada is not nearly as available as other "stuff". And that's why the average Canadian spends more on American "stuff" than Americans spend on Canadian "stuff".

That shouldn't surprise anyone.

Corvair sources:
 
Australia upset about "Trump's blatant foreign interference" in stopping funding of $600 million to Australian Universities. The obtuseness is mind blowing.

"The federal government must push back on the Trump administration's blatant foreign interference in our independent research in the strongest possible terms," NTEU president Alison Barnes said.

Yeah I’m sure the part about asking OZ universities for their Chinese funding and gender policy made a few people faint.

I love Australia but their woke idiots make Americas look like amateurs; Chinese communist sympathizers have attacked pro democracy students on campuses.

However the main issue with OZ universities is shared by American universities……

They’ve become so reliant on the Chinese tuition to keep their bloated system afloat.

Universities have become multi national corporations and as such are susceptible to take overs…both hostile & covert.

“Why would you let your enemy educate your child” Malcolm X
 
Noted on the authoritarian... Yes, many have said the same thing about current events, but no one really spoke out on the other at the time.

As far as the trade, my point is less about cross border shopping, and more about availability. If Canadians produce less products, whether by manufacturing or any other good, and Americans produce more (not surprising considering the population differences) then more goods are available to the south, and of course the northerners will chase those goods. That's the point about Honda production. If the only "Domestic" Hondas are two available models, and the other popular Hondas are made in the US, then yes, Canadians will spend more on the available US Hondas then the Canadian ones. Similarly, If Honda makes models in both the US and Canada, it's likely they will not be purchasing a Canadian made model when the US model is close at hand.

To clarify, I'm going to pick on the 1966 Corvair, because I know a bit about Corvairs, and because the production numbers are small enough to illustrate the point.

In 1966, the Corvair was manufactured in Oshawa, Willow Run, and Van Nuys. Oshawa produced a total of 5921 cars. Now, I'm trying to find sales numbers for Corvairs in the US and Canada, but those numbers are more difficult to find. Considering the Corvair had over 1% of the market share in 1966, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that more than 6,000 Corvairs were sold in Canada. Hence, some were imported from Van Nuys or Willow Run. Additionally, every one of those engines was made in Tonawanda, NY. So yes, a lot of Canadian dollars are going to head south. Of course, in 1967, tariff changes made the manufacture of Corvairs in Oshawa less profitable, and the Corvair went down to about 0.25% of the market share. Canadians still bought a few. And the Oshawa plant started making Firebirds and Camaros. Was every Firebird and Camaro sold in Canada built in Oshawa? Not remotely.

Yes, those are very old numbers. But they reflect the point. The US makes a lot of "stuff", and makes a lot more "stuff" than Canada does. So if a Canadian wants "stuff", he can buy domestic or foreign, and there's a lot more available foreign "stuff". On the other hand, if an American wants "stuff", the "stuff" available from Canada is not nearly as available as other "stuff". And that's why the average Canadian spends more on American "stuff" than Americans spend on Canadian "stuff".

That shouldn't surprise anyone.

Corvair sources:

I concur what I don’t understand is the offence when Canada takes steps to protect the “stuff” we do make. Add to that a president with a boarish personality who’s demand a additional 1750$ per Canadian on top of the 7000 we already out spend you annually.
I’ve said many times on here I have no problem with the Americans who admit they voted for the better of two bad options in your shoes I’d of done the same. Where I American id of been a reluctant trump voter. The few I have a problem with are those who refuse to acknowledge the real numbers, take any number trump can come up with off the top of his head as gospel and believe he can do no wrong in foreign policy. My question to all those who think trump can do know wrong and is an inspiration is this. If he were married to you cousin instead of your president do you honestly believe you could stand him at family get togethers? It was a dry Turkey …very dry… very dry bad turkey…no marshmallows in the yams … very dry marshmallowless turkey… I’m going to make turkeys great again.
 
Precedence was set for the first, elected POTUS. I do not expect the same to happen for the body of government not elected, but assigned.
Yeah, it's like the Constitution says "shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour", or something like that.
 
I concur what I don’t understand is the offence when Canada takes steps to protect the “stuff” we do make. Add to that a president with a boarish personality who’s demand a additional 1750$ per Canadian on top of the 7000 we already out spend you annually.
I’ve said many times on here I have no problem with the Americans who admit they voted for the better of two bad options in your shoes I’d of done the same. Where I American id of been a reluctant trump voter. The few I have a problem with are those who refuse to acknowledge the real numbers, take any number trump can come up with off the top of his head as gospel and believe he can do no wrong in foreign policy. My question to all those who think trump can do know wrong and is an inspiration is this. If he were married to you cousin instead of your president do you honestly believe you could stand him at family get togethers? It was a dry Turkey …very dry… very dry bad turkey…no marshmallows in the yams … very dry marshmallowless turkey… I’m going to make turkeys great again.
Well, if you're "protecting the stuff you do make", why can't anyone else protect the stuff they make? Going way back to post #1, the topic was steel and aluminum. Is not protecting US aluminum manufacturing as important as Canadian dairy? The best fair trade agreement is the one that says "there shall be free trade." That's a two way street.

A previous poster (not you) suggested the reason there are so few US cars in Europe is they do not meet European safety standards. I know that's not true. The reason "gray market" cars cannot be imported until they are 25 years old is that they do not meet American standards, not the other way around. I know people who have "converted" their US spec cars to meet European (specifically TüV) standards mostly involved changing tail lights from red to orange and other minor items. Want a Land Rover Defender (old style, not the new Pretender) or Toyota Hilux in the US? Well, you'd need to add back up cameras, airbags, anti-lock brakes, et al. The reason Ford stopped importing Defenders after 1997 is the costs involved with adding airbags. More likely is the fact that if you bring a German (for example) car to the US, the duty on it is 2.5%, but to sell the American car in Germany, you're looking at a 10% duty. AND you need to add the VAT (19%). So there's not a lot of reason (29%) to try and sell US models there. GM's solution was to simply buy Opel. And I noticed sales lots full of RAM trucks when Stellantis bought Dodge.

And all my hockey sticks are made in China. I would love to find an old Victoriaville. There's an industry you should have protected!
 
I read over this thread again today and realized that I may owe some of you folks an apology. Maybe I got a little too excited and got carried away with my comments and I am sorry! It sounds like I pissed off some of my friends here and hurt some feelings. There is no excuse for that kind of behaviour. It was unthinking of me to imagine that a bit of dysfunctional federal political in the USA, the leading country in the world, is more important that the feelings of my fellow hunters and shooter. We should all stick together, right, and all expressed similar opinions in public.

I lost my head, forgetting that the notion of speaking up about a wrong when it impacts millions of people is an outdated myth that is divisive and hurtful.

Fortunately most of the posters wisely avoided addressing the main issue of my original post and instead focused on my glaring shortcomings as a political observer and thereby avoided any painful focussed discussion of the central issue. For that we can all be thankful.

What does it matter if the greatest country in the world is building a dictatorship led by a lying criminal just in Russia and why should that bother me so much as a citizen in a bordering democratic country. What could go wrong? The same development has worked out well for Ukraine.

Again, I apologize for arrogantly choosing a topic about the exceptional USA and for suggesting that it somehow concerns me. I admit that my real hanging offence was in rudely pointing out some perceived limitations in the knowledge of some of the America posters.

My bad, I stand corrected.
Brian
 
A couple of points of clarification on the 'US food is dreadful' discussion. TL;DR, it kind of is.

GMO is just as legal in Europe as it is in the US. What is different is consumer attitudes, especially historical consumer attitudes.

The EU consumer has always been deeply suspicious of GMO, so products labelled with 'contains GMO' historically did poorly. Hence those products, whilst available, are not common in that market. Why use an ingredient that whilst marginally cheaper and offering some benefits, loses you competitive advantage?

The US consumer, historically at least, does not care. The same label of 'contains GMO' does not influence purchase intent nearly as much, so why NOT use the cheaper ingredient? Especially as US labeling regs are a lot more lax on requiring that label in the first place...

As a result, GMO got prevalent enough that there are classes of foodstuffs in the US where it is virtually impossible to source non-GMO options at scale, even if businesses wanted to. Corn derived anything, for instance. Plus consumers still don't really care to nearly the same degree.

I have differing opinions to you on if GMO is 'universally bad' or 'universally unhealthy' and to be honest, based on the data I have seen in my career I have no objection to it, but that is the background as to why the US uses them a lot more.

As for why the US diet is so disappointing?

There are many other instances where the US agricultural and food lobby has succeeded, where in Europe they failed. Propylene glycol in flavors for instance. In both the EU and the US this is a recognized carcinogen. Both apply limits on use rate. In Europe, the limit is 0.1% or 1000ppm. In the US, it is 5%, or 50,000ppm. Cheap 'n' tasty US foods as a result, but at a cost of increased cancer risk.

Same for FD&C colors. Recognized carcinogens, banned in Europe in the 90's. Still in use in the US, although it looks like a 2025 ban is coming. Almost universally still in use, especially in foods marketed to children. Gives US products that vibrant 'pop' of color very cheaply, but is it worth it?

Or there's the use of artifical flavors. US regulations are incredibly lax on this topic compared to the EU, or even Canada. You don't even have to label them as such in many instances.

Then there's the taste preference part of the equation. The US (and Canadian) consumer LOVES 'sweet' in a way that no other consumer I've developed products for does. Every single thing I move into this continent (or anything I develop for this market), we do the consumer testing and it's always the same comment; 'It's not sweet enough'. It doesn't matter how much sugar I put in my formulations, I have never, ever seen a 'just about right' attribute for sweetness score 'too much', or even 'about right'. There is no such thing as 'too sweet' for the US consumer.

Historically, that meant a diet absolutely loaded with sugar, which meant obesity. That lead into a diet loaded with high fructose corn syrup, as that's just as sweet, but even cheaper. That lead to even more obesity, and diabetes, and colon cancer.

These days it means a huge reliance on stevia, or sucralose, or Ace K, or monkfruit, or erythritol, or whichever high intensity sweetener is in vogue. The jury is out on if that's an 'improvement' and I haven't seen enough data either way to have a firm opinion. But US consumers once again aren't that educated on the topic. The level of knowledge is growing, but the US lags Europe by about 10-20 years.

I think that this sugar preference is a trained response lead by the historical food industry in the US. Foods loaded with sugar have better shelf life, which makes distribution easier and reduces losses. Plus, it makes bland food taste good on the cheap.

But it also means that standard food items such as US bread, are as sweet as most European doughnuts. In fact, under EU regs, US white bread would be classified as 'cake'. Of course, standard supermarket bread in Europe goes moldy in about 3-5 days. In the US, it lasts 2+ weeks...
The american sugar indiustry are renowned for their strong and very succesfull lobby. I believe one can not find any processed foods in the US that does not contain sugar. If one is a diabetic and don’t have a homegarden is difficult to find healthy foods. Like you write. American sandwich bread would be clssified as cake due to the high containment of sugar. Even Heinz or Hunt’t ketchup contain as much sugar as in a softdrink. Sugar is addictiv and there is big money in getiting people hooked and later hooked on medication( double sucked)The corn syrup that is the predominant sugar can leads to serious health issues. Sliced sandwich bread overhere last about 7 days. Real bread from our local bakery last about 1 day(we eat it the same day) but if left in the paperbag its already too dry 2 days after and we use it to feed seagulls with it. A bag of sliced bread run about $3 where bread from the bakery cost $5-7 depends on which bakery. The ketchup Beauvais we buy is from France and is unsweet’n. It taste much more fresh , sharp and tomato.
 
Well, if you're "protecting the stuff you do make", why can't anyone else protect the stuff they make? Going way back to post #1, the topic was steel and aluminum. Is not protecting US aluminum manufacturing as important as Canadian dairy? The best fair trade agreement is the one that says "there shall be free trade." That's a two way street.

A previous poster (not you) suggested the reason there are so few US cars in Europe is they do not meet European safety standards. I know that's not true. The reason "gray market" cars cannot be imported until they are 25 years old is that they do not meet American standards, not the other way around. I know people who have "converted" their US spec cars to meet European (specifically TüV) standards mostly involved changing tail lights from red to orange and other minor items. Want a Land Rover Defender (old style, not the new Pretender) or Toyota Hilux in the US? Well, you'd need to add back up cameras, airbags, anti-lock brakes, et al. The reason Ford stopped importing Defenders after 1997 is the costs involved with adding airbags. More likely is the fact that if you bring a German (for example) car to the US, the duty on it is 2.5%, but to sell the American car in Germany, you're looking at a 10% duty. AND you need to add the VAT (19%). So there's not a lot of reason (29%) to try and sell US models there. GM's solution was to simply buy Opel. And I noticed sales lots full of RAM trucks when Stellantis bought Dodge.

And all my hockey sticks are made in China. I would love to find an old Victoriaville. There's an industry you should have protected!

I would say comparing Canadian dairy to u.s. aluminum is comparing apples to Oldsmobiles. I’ll gladly discuss diary on a country by country basis if you which to discuss aluminum I’ll wade into that as well if you allow me a little lead time to freshen up on the numbers. What I will not do is compare a small predominantly family owned industry limited in a capped regional market with a multinational industry that has a 300 million more customer domestic market before it even begins to trade internationally. Not to mention the aluminum industry trades with no volume restrictions other than market demand.

The U.S. dairy industry is heavily subsidized buy the American tax payer and as such has outpaced demand and is looking to offshore its production over run instead of dumping or reducing production to meet demand. If it makes you feel better have the U.S. put counter tariffs on Canadian milk products of 215%.
 
I read over this thread again today and realized that I may owe some of you folks an apology. Maybe I got a little too excited and got carried away with my comments and I am sorry! It sounds like I pissed off some of my friends here and hurt some feelings. There is no excuse for that kind of behaviour. It was unthinking of me to imagine that a bit of dysfunctional federal political in the USA, the leading country in the world, is more important that the feelings of my fellow hunters and shooter. We should all stick together, right, and all expressed similar opinions in public.

I lost my head, forgetting that the notion of speaking up about a wrong when it impacts millions of people is an outdated myth that is divisive and hurtful.

Fortunately most of the posters wisely avoided addressing the main issue of my original post and instead focused on my glaring shortcomings as a political observer and thereby avoided any painful focussed discussion of the central issue. For that we can all be thankful.

What does it matter if the greatest country in the world is building a dictatorship led by a lying criminal just in Russia and why should that bother me so much as a citizen in a bordering democratic country. What could go wrong? The same development has worked out well for Ukraine.

Again, I apologize for arrogantly choosing a topic about the exceptional USA and for suggesting that it somehow concerns me. I admit that my real hanging offence was in rudely pointing out some perceived limitations in the knowledge of some of the America posters.

My bad, I stand corrected.
Brian

No worries Brian. I must tell you, as a citizen of both countries, and having split my life and career between the two, I have far greater freedom in the US than I ever did in Canada. I also feel that my freedoms have much greater protection in the US than they ever did in Canada.

I voted for Trump in the general but not the primary. I approve of some of what he is doing (Southern border, deporting dangerous illegals, improving government efficiency, albeit heavy handedly). I strongly disapprove of much of his foreign policy, particularly as regards Canada and Ukraine. HOWEVER, on his worst day he could not do what Trudeau did to your truckers. The US has much stronger checks in place to preclude that kind of authoritarian nonsense.
 
Well in other international news with trade partners….

Mexico has discovered another death ranch, over 200 pairs of shoes, ID’s and other personal objects found including children’s toys.

Were located at this ranch that had custom underground furnaces for cremation.


FYI this is not the first and certainly not the largest of these operations discovered in a country with 120,000 people reported as missing.
 
I would say comparing Canadian dairy to u.s. aluminum is comparing apples to Oldsmobiles. I’ll gladly discuss diary on a country by country basis if you which to discuss aluminum I’ll wade into that as well if you allow me a little lead time to freshen up on the numbers. What I will not do is compare a small predominantly family owned industry limited in a capped regional market with a multinational industry that has a 300 million more customer domestic market before it even begins to trade internationally. Not to mention the aluminum industry trades with no volume restrictions other than market demand.

The U.S. dairy industry is heavily subsidized buy the American tax payer and as such has outpaced demand and is looking to offshore its production over run instead of dumping or reducing production to meet demand. If it makes you feel better have the U.S. put counter tariffs on Canadian milk products of 215%.

Canada subsidizes its dairy farmers to it seems. How the numbers compare I don't know, do you?

 
I hope that this little dust up between family. the US and Canada is just like two brothers having a little spat.

I’m confident if anybody messed with either nation. the other would be right behind them backing them up.

And I am predicting that the U.S. will unfortunately need Canada in the very near future to once again back the US after the next 9-11. Which is very soon.

The Biden regime has been giving millions per month to the Taliban. Our own Afghanistan ambassador will not speak to the Afghanistan resistance.

The Haqqani network, And Hamza Bin Laden have at least 1000 and possibly 2000 deep cover operatives inside the US right now.

The only real time human intelligence coming out of Afghanistan is through former US operatives that still have personal contacts inside Afghanistan.

Just as Israel got intelligence that October 7th was going to happen. The US intelligence agencies also knows that we have the next 9-11 operators inside our borders right now.

So all this quibbling between family (the US and Canada) is another distraction while our mortal enemies are about to attack us again.

So unfortunately the US is going to need Canada to have our back again.
 
No worries Brian. I must tell you, as a citizen of both countries, and having split my life and career between the two, I have far greater freedom in the US than I ever did in Canada. I also feel that my freedoms have much greater protection in the US than they ever did in Canada.

I voted for Trump in the general but not the primary. I approve of some of what he is doing (Southern border, deporting dangerous illegals, improving government efficiency, albeit heavy handedly). I strongly disapprove of much of his foreign policy, particularly as regards Canada and Ukraine. HOWEVER, on his worst day he could not do what Trudeau did to your truckers. The US has much stronger checks in place to preclude that kind of authoritarian nonsense.

I'm pretty sure his entire post was mostly sarcastic. But your point about Trudeau did with the Truckers is spot on.
 
Canada subsidizes its dairy farmers to it seems. How the numbers compare I don't know, do you?


If you read the article you quoted it gives you your answer it was a payment in response to damage do to the Canadian dairy industry by allowing u.s. milk onto the market.
Image1742681241.035502.jpg
 
If you read the article you quoted it gives you your answer it was a payment in response to damage do to the Canadian dairy industry by allowing u.s. milk onto the market.

Guilty, I just perused it while running around.
 
If you communicate with your DC congressman. Tell them to get behind the “No tax dollars for terrorists” bill.
It’s been delayed bringing it to the floor several times. Speaker Johnson says he wants a clean bill to hold the no voters accountable.

This is to stop the millions per month we send to the Taliban.
Government stooges contend that it’s not possible for the millions to get to terrorists.

The Afghanistan central bank holds auctions for those US dollars. The Taliban issues all afghan NGO licenses. The NGOs are bidding on and winning the US dollars. It’s then laundered all over the world and back to fund anti US interests all over the world.

Besides the plans to attack the US. There are embassy attacks planned in Mail and or Somalia.

For your personal defensive plan. Look to the attacks on concerts and festivals in Europe in recent years. And have a plan for how they may hit us here again. Concerts, trains, busses.
 
Still not seeing you address the numbers I posted? Still having trouble with the math? Or still not willing to deal in facts?
What does that have to do with the current argument?. You seem to have a strange obsession with tariff and trade numbers.
I'm not a walking database of those numbers. I would have to look up the data.
 
I hope that this little dust up between family. the US and Canada is just like two brothers having a little spat.

I’m confident if anybody messed with either nation. the other would be right behind them backing them up.

And I am predicting that the U.S. will unfortunately need Canada in the very near future to once again back the US after the next 9-11. Which is very soon.

The Biden regime has been giving millions per month to the Taliban. Our own Afghanistan ambassador will not speak to the Afghanistan resistance.

The Haqqani network, And Hamza Bin Laden have at least 1000 and possibly 2000 deep cover operatives inside the US right now.

The only real time human intelligence coming out of Afghanistan is through former US operatives that still have personal contacts inside Afghanistan.

Just as Israel got intelligence that October 7th was going to happen. The US intelligence agencies also knows that we have the next 9-11 operators inside our borders right now.

So all this quibbling between family (the US and Canada) is another distraction while our mortal enemies are about to attack us again.

So unfortunately the US is going to need Canada to have our back again.
I don't think unfortunatly is appropriate!
 

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