Politics

[mdwest]

Ukraine says it will do all it can to maintain US ties after Trump pauses aid​

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/trump-halts-all-us-military-aid-ukraine-white-house-official-says-2025-03-04/

Key to that Reuters article is right at the top..

Trump still interested in the mineral deal..

It further says France is showing Z support while the UK is a bit more hesitant..

Zelenskyy needs to be signing right away…

 

[Neophyte]

The fact that they gave a Nobel Peace Prize to the Kenyan In Chief, obama, makes it’s value worthless.

 

[rigbymauser]

EU just agreed to make a €800billion investment in arms industry. Trumps plan worked out and EU is realizing they must carry their own weight without the US from today. EU will help Ukraine and Trump can continue his golf turnament. Trump is after all a dealmaster. We need more like him. He is a winner surrounded by losers.

 

[fourfive8]

Perhaps the fact that Trump sometimes seems to be quite desperate to get his own Nobel Peace Prize to compete with Obama might persuade him to do something even if Zelensky decides not to come and crawl before his feets.

I would assume that a Nobel Peace Prize would require a just peace not just forcing a peace at any cost, since the way peace is gained probably would influence wether a prize is awarded or not.

Obama did nothing more than take a dump in Air Force One a couple of times and got the Nobel Prize for it. I doubt Trump is interested in that show.

 

[John Wasmuth]

Yet another view from someone else, interesting how many different views there are in regards to this whole problem,

 

[KJE81]

Obama did nothing more than take a dump in Air Force One a couple of times and got the Nobel Prize for it. I doubt Trump is interested in that show.

Its hard to know whats true or not, but on a quick google search I found at least two media outlets that have made articles about Trumps desire for a Nobel Peace Prize, of course they are probably not MAGA-approved media houses.

Trump still really wants to win a Nobel Peace Prize

The prestigious award may be a tough get for Trump as he increasingly breaks with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

www.nbcnews.com

https://www.axios.com/2025/03/01/trump-nobel-peace-prize-obsession

Fox News seems to be MAGA-approved but they have no details of Trump actually wanting a price, just how he could possible get one: https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/how-donald-trump-can-make-history-win-3-nobel-peace-prizes

 

[YancyW]

A letter from Lech Walesa of Poland, a brave, ordinary man who stood up to the old Soviet Union in an extraordinary way.

The closing paragraph of the letter says it all:

We appeal to the USA to hold itself to the guarantees, that they gave along with Great Britain in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, in which is written an obligation to defend the immovable borders of Ukraine, in exchange for [Ukraine] giving up its nuclear arms. Those guarantees are without conditions: they don't contain a single word about treating such help as an exchange for commercial benefits.

https://www.reddit.com/r/poland/comments/1j2qk31/rough_translationcontext_letter_to_trump_from

I greatly admire Poland, have made that clear many times in this discussion, but he is flat wrong on what the Budapest agreement requires of the US. The agreement is very short, can be read in 90 seconds, I encourage everyone interested in this topic to read it.

 

[Lone Star Bluegrass]

A letter from Lech Walesa of Poland, a brave, ordinary man who stood up to the old Soviet Union in an extraordinary way.

The closing paragraph of the letter says it all:

We appeal to the USA to hold itself to the guarantees, that they gave along with Great Britain in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, in which is written an obligation to defend the immovable borders of Ukraine, in exchange for [Ukraine] giving up its nuclear arms. Those guarantees are without conditions: they don't contain a single word about treating such help as an exchange for commercial benefits.

https://www.reddit.com/r/poland/comments/1j2qk31/rough_translationcontext_letter_to_trump_from

This was never submitted to the Senate for a vote, necessary for ratification as a treaty. Anyone with an elementary understanding of the structure of the American federal system would know this.
Understanding international diplomacy is of course more complicated, which is why this issue remains so controversial.

 

[mdwest]

EU just agreed to make a €800billion investment in arms industry. Trumps plan worked out and EU is realizing they must carry their own weight without the US from today. EU will help Ukraine and Trump can continue his golf turnament. Trump is after all a dealmaster. We need more like him. He is a winner surrounded by losers.

Sincere question…

Had Europe stepped up and made that commitment 8 years ago when Trump first raised hell about the rest of NATO not meeting its obligations and being reliant on the US for its defense… would we be where we are today?

I’m reasonably sure Putin would have still invaded… Biden, and most of Europe’s leadership were weak at the time…

But had Europe had the ability to self defend, and had more munitions on its arsenal 3 years ago when the invasion first started… would that not have been of benefit both then and now?

 

[Pondoro]

Is it not a valid point that NATO also agreed not to expand, yet has? Prompting this whole disaster? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not on Russia’s side. They started this by invading a sovereign nation, Putin is an evil man, they’ve committed war crimes/crimes against humanity. All that. I’m just saying let’s be a little objective about the entire picture.

NATO never agreed on non-expantion..even Gorbatsjov confirmed that.. Russian propaganda..

It is not up to Russia to decide what nations to be allowed into NATO. Please stop advocating the russian narrative.

 

[Pondoro]

Sincere question…

Had Europe stepped up and made that commitment 8 years ago when Trump first raised hell about the rest of NATO not meeting its obligations and being reliant on the US for its defense… would we be where we are today?

I’m reasonably sure Putin would have still invaded… Biden, and most of Europe’s leadership were weak at the time…

But had Europe had the ability to self defend, and had more munitions on its arsenal 3 years ago when the invasion first started… would that not have been of benefit both then and now?

True..but still.. the US had the means but chose not to interfer more heavily when Putin invaded.

To me its even weaker that Trump will not put more military pressure on Putin..

You cannot bargain with a man like Putin and you cannot buy him..like Hitler.

 

[YancyW]

True..but still.. the US had the means but chose not to interfer more heavily when Putin invaded.

Europe had the means also, they just choose to use those means in a different way, correct?

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

NATO never agreed on non-expantion..even Gorbasjov confirmed that.. Russian propaganda..

It is not up to Russia to decide what nations to be allowed into NATO. Please stop advocating the russian narrative.

I’ll look into it more.

 

[KJE81]

I greatly admire Poland, have made that clear many times in this discussion, but he is flat wrong on what the Budapest agreement requires of the US. The agreement is very short, can be read in 90 seconds, I encourage everyone interested in this topic to read it.

I found this old clip were Marco Rubio explains the Budapest agreement, a blast from the past or something like that

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=988528669360645

 

[Brent in Az]

Perhaps the fact that Trump sometimes seems to be quite desperate to get his own Nobel Peace Prize to compete with Obama might persuade him to do something even if Zelensky decides not to come and crawl before his feets.

I would assume that a Nobel Peace Prize would require a just peace not just forcing a peace at any cost, since the way peace is gained probably would influence wether a prize is awarded or not.

Obama did nothing to earn a Nobel peace prize. Zero.Zip.Nada. He received one for no other reason then being black.
I doubt Trump is concerned about getting a Nobel peace prize from an extremely Liberal entity.

 

[YancyW]

I found this old clip were Marco Rubio explains the Budapest agreement, a blast from the past or something like that

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=988528669360645

You will notice he said the word 'basically" in his description. The agreement does not obligate the US to provide for a defense in any way, it simply says the US would petition the UN in the event of an incursion, if that incursion meets certain parameters. That is all it says.

 

[John Wasmuth]

Interesting.

Slovakia’s Fico announces halt of military aid to Ukraine

Bratislava will only provide humanitarian aid to Kyiv from now on, newly elected prime minister says.

www.politico.eu

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

I greatly admire Poland, have made that clear many times in this discussion, but he is flat wrong on what the Budapest agreement requires of the US. The agreement is very short, can be read in 90 seconds, I encourage everyone interested in this topic to read it.

https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%203007/Part/volume-3007-I-52241.pdf

Budapest Memorandum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

 

[mdwest]

True..but still.. the US had the means but chose not to interfer more heavily when Putin invaded.

To me its even weaker that Trump will not put more military pressure on Putin..

You cannot bargain with a man like Putin and you cannot buy him..like Hitler.

Completely agree…

The point is, everyone has some amount of shit on their shoes in this affair…

Europe (NATO members) has not met its own defense obligations for decades.. and has gladly allowed itself to become reliant on US defense investments for its safety.. which is not what the NATO contract call for… many non NATO European countries have also not kept up the pace on defense, despite knowing threats like Russia exist..

This problem was addressed at length 8 years ago, and while some NATO countries stepped up, many did not… so the problem remains…

I also agree that the US could have done substantially more early in the fight.. but we had a weak leader.. whose family had to be very careful navigating the Ukraine relationship because of very well established corruption issues…

Everyone is hating on Trump (much of it rightfully), but did Biden do us any favors? Or does anyone really believe Harris has the skills to navigate this process any better?

Then there’s Zelenskyy.. whether Trump or Vance ambushed him or not, he clearly did not handle the situation in a manner that helps Ukraine..

The time for crying is over.. everyone involved has played a part that has created a negative consequence.. there should be far less finger pointing and far more problem solving going on… or everyone involved stands to lose something greater than has already been lost…