Politics

[Doubleplay]

I was thoroughly sickened by what I saw displayed by my president and vice president.

As an American I'm disgusted by the way our President and VP acted in front of the World.
This will be front and center in the Russian and Chinese media for years to come.
And if there's anybody out there who defends and accepts that kind of behaviour coming from president regardless of the context you don't have any class.

 

[KJE81]

Based on Vance's position, I would say L shaped.

This guy with the funny clothes told Vladimir Putin and the whole Russian military to FU, and to date he and his people have delivered. I suspect neither Trump nor Vance particularly impress him. I further suspect he fully realizes that Trump does not represent "the world" - apparently only Russia and its allies. I would assume Ukrainian analysis has concluded US support is already lost, and that its interests are best served by battling on for their independence counting on Europe.

I would again note, a number of very smart analysts believe Russia currently is in far worse military and economic shape than Ukraine.

I truly hope this proposed support package is real and actually happens.

Europe preps huge defense package in boost to Ukraine: "Never been seen"

Media reports said as much as $700 billion could be allocated to Europe's defenses, though it was not clear how much of that amount would go to Kyiv.

www.newsweek.com

 

[mdwest]

I truly hope this proposed support package is real and actually happens.

Europe preps huge defense package in boost to Ukraine: "Never been seen"

Media reports said as much as $700 billion could be allocated to Europe's defenses, though it was not clear how much of that amount would go to Kyiv.

www.newsweek.com

I hope so as well..

that may well be the only "win-win" option left on the table..

 

[Hunt anything]

What a sh*t show, I somewhat expected it out of Trump and Zelenski but not so much out of Vance. Way to go guys!

 

[bowjijohn]

I might be reading the room incorrectly but I think Trump is going to have to work hard not to be seen as an unreliable partner on the world stage in the future

 

[Tundra Tiger]

I might be reading the room incorrectly but I think Trump is going to have to work hard not to be seen as an unreliable partner on the world stage in the future

I think he came across as an insufferable lout. And while that might actually speak closer to the truth of who he actually is, it did seem an odd course to choose in that particular setting. I don't think he gives a damn, and I wish he'd realize that there are times when you do have to give a damn, or at least give the appearance that you do.

 

[CJW]

Sorry

Deleted - as you can go to prison for such comments in modern Britain

"Have you been to prison in the UK because you said something offensive? You'de be a lot cooler if you did!"

Don't worry though. Herr Starmer was just at the WH saying how proud he is of "free speech" in the UK.

.

 

[mdwest]

I might be reading the room incorrectly but I think Trump is going to have to work hard not to be seen as an unreliable partner on the world stage in the future

I think sensible world leaders will realize that Trump has 3 years and 10 months left in office which is just a drop in the bucket of time.. that those next few years are probably going to be an uncomfortable ride for everyone.. but that one man doesn't represent the beliefs of the entirety of the US (even if elected by a majority) any more than Starmer represents all Brits, or Trudeau represents all Canadians, etc... They'll ride the storm out, figure out how to best deal with the situation at hand, and then see who is going to be elected next before they determine if there is a trend going on in American politics, the American people at large, etc..

We've seen several governments fracture or come close to fracturing around the globe this year.. France almost fell apart.. Canada's government has fallen apart.. Germany just swung back to a conservative-led government after decades under liberal party rule, etc..etc.. The entire western world is pretty uncertain right now.. and we're going to have several new world leaders that all have to figure each other out pretty quickly if we expect anything other than chaos...

 

[rookhawk]

I don't care for the way Trump conducts himself either as I've stated before and you know. I can't recall if you've ever made any comments regarding General Patton on this thread, forgive me if I've missed them. But I see a number of parallels between the two in their personalities at least. I'm sure in many other ways they're different.

But Patton near as I can tell was a defiant self-glory seeking narcissist just as Trump. I would guess that if I had ever met the man I would've not liked him very much. But the fact is in light of what he accomplished, my opinion of how he conducted himself in doing so isn't worth a damn. What ultimately and only matters is his instrumental role in winning the war in Europe.

If this agreement turns out to be a win win as you described above, I do think it may be premature to say that at this point, does it really mean much of anything in how it came about? If the Ukrainians end up with a better economy, albeit at the expense of losing some of its land, if they get an implicit security improvement via the agreement with the U.S. and as we know already NATO has expanded it's borders, does it really matter how it was accomplished?

As far as ruffling the feathers of some of our NATO Allies goes, I think it was high time that happen. As has been noted many times the lack of funding many of those allies have put into defense and not living up to their agreements. I have no desire the USA to turn its back on NATO, but I'm quite sure those NATO allies just as strongly, likely more so, do not either.

Presumig we don't and NATO holds together as is and with an expanded presence, it would not surprise me if many of those allies think Trump was an a-hole while also being at peace in how this has worked out. So who gives a crap what they think of Trump?

To take it to a clinical level, Patton was a Meiers-Briggs ENTJ. ENTJ's are known as "War Marshalls" in slang terminology. Their benefit is they are 80% right, all the time. Literally, it's their gift.

Their curse is they can begin to believe they are right 100% of the time. The mistakes Patton made are well known and they stem from this confirmation bias resulting in broad-brush assumptions beyond the "usually correct" gut instinct he justifiably earned. (e.g. slapping a shell shocked soldier in hospital).

Trump on the other hand is a clinical narcissist and perhaps a sociopath. They are not the same thing in defense of Patton.

The major benefit of Trump is that he views this government as an extension of himself. Being wholly self-absorbed with his own greatness, he will go to any length for the USA to be successful and for him to get the credit for that greatness. It's a rare situation where malignant narcissism is beneficial to the people provided we can suffer the tom-foolery.

If Musk gets rid of the necrossis in the government with Doge and RFK gets us healthy without poisoned food and corrupt medicine, Trump's legacy is cemented forever on a domestic level. If Trump's diplomats and generals can keep us out of WW3 then his foreign policy will also be judged favorably.

But make no mistakes, Trump is not JFK, nor is he Reagan, Washington, or Jefferson. He's the best we can come up with at this time which is not a high compliment.

 

[bowjijohn]

"Have you been to prison in the UK because you said something offensive? You'de be a lot cooler if you did!"

Don't worry though. Herr Starmer was just at the WH saying how proud he is of "free speech" in the UK.

.

I’m many things

Cool is definitely not one of them

Seriously though, we in the UK have to careful what we write in Starmer’s Britain

 

[KJE81]

To take it to a clinical level, Patton was a Meiers-Briggs ENTJ. ENTJ's are known as "War Marshalls" in slang terminology. Their benefit is they are 80% right, all the time. Literally, it's their gift.

Their curse is they can begin to believe they are right 100% of the time. The mistakes Patton made are well known and they stem from this confirmation bias resulting in broad-brush assumptions beyond the "usually correct" gut instinct he justifiably earned. (e.g. slapping a shell shocked soldier in hospital).

Trump on the other hand is a clinical narcissist and perhaps a sociopath. They are not the same thing in defense of Patton.

The major benefit of Trump is that he views this government as an extension of himself. Being wholly self-absorbed with his own greatness, he will go to any length for the USA to be successful and for him to get the credit for that greatness. It's a rare situation where malignant narcissism is beneficial to the people provided we can suffer the tom-foolery.

If Musk gets rid of the necrossis in the government with Doge and RFK gets us healthy without poisoned food and corrupt medicine, Trump's legacy is cemented forever on a domestic level. If Trump's diplomats and generals can keep us out of WW3 then his foreign policy will also be judged favorably.

But make no mistakes, Trump is not JFK, nor is he Reagan, Washington, or Jefferson. He's the best we can come up with at this time which is not a high compliment.

One just hopes that the dead weight that gets cut by Musk still stays loyal to their country, this was an unsettling read: https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/28/...ruit-disgruntled-federal-employees/index.html

 

[gbflyer]

Slavic people are a little different to deal with. If you know, you know.

 

[mdwest]

'He can come back when he is ready for peace': Zelenskyy leaves White House after Trump cuts short talks after Oval Office blow up - The Times of India

US News: Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy left the White House on Friday without signing a critical minerals deal that US President Donald Trump had adv.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

it appears the meetings were cut short and are now over.. no deal in place...

 

[rookhawk]

One just hopes that the dead weight that gets cut by Musk still stays loyal to their country, this was an unsettling read: https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/28/...ruit-disgruntled-federal-employees/index.html

Indeed. The treason (no hyperbole) within FBI, CIA, and State Dept I'm hearing is deeply troubling. America has gone far too long without public hangings for traitors. If you're so politically entrenched you'd destroy your own nation to punish a sitting president, you need to die a treasonous death.

I believe we'd be in a better place if all civil servants and elected officials thought they could walk the gallows for undermining our nation. Elections are every 2 years, but treason is forever. Worse yet, these allegations of disgruntled government employees considering working for foreign powers will forever tarnish those agencies. I pray to God that the military and DOJ are not implicated in these sorts of accusations. (our non-partisan ideal agencies under the constitution)

 

[Lone Star Bluegrass]

Watching the extended video, it sounds like everything hit the skids when Zelensky objected to JDV saying that Biden wasn’t willing to entertain a diplomatic solution, which of course is true—when Russia invaded Biden offered Zelensky to set up a government in exile and cut off diplomatic relations with the Russians. Zelensky cut off JDV and questioned whether diplomacy has a place because Obama did nothing when Russia invaded Crimea.
Then the wheels came off.

 

[WAB]

I was thoroughly sickened by what I saw displayed by my president and vice president.

Agreed, it was embarrassing in the extreme. They are allowing petty grievances to overshadow our National interests. If we abandon Ukraine, or worse, back Russia, we will pay a terrible price for our arrogance. Let’s hope that they can get past this and find a reasonable path forward.

Another thing, transparency can go too far. Airing a ridiculous spectacle like this drives a wedge that will be difficult to remove. Have your difficult conversations in private.

 

[Foxi]

I found it absolutely wonderful that the little guy with the bad clothes was having none of Trump or Vance's sanctimonious BS - "I am for the world!" Seriously!?! Putin invades Ukraine, and the Ukrainian people, led by Zelensky, have the courage to fight the invader to a standstill. Therefore, they are responsible for courting World War III. Putin and Lavrov must be laughing to tears between vodka shots. I think they should award Trump a Hero of the Motherland award. Thank God a large number of republican senators aren't complete Trump sycophants.

I think it is worth reflection that the two places that will see these clips played the most will be MAGA world sites and Russian State TV.

Apparently, they are still negotiating - maybe a win/win deal can yet emerge form this nonsense. Unfortunately, they have publicly put themselves in a place where neither can be perceived to have backed down.

My gut feeling is that Trump won't last a full term.

The growing protest against the planned firing of hundreds of thousands of government employees - and the fate of the families behind them - is only beginning to unfold. DOGE bosses have let slip that 75% of government workers are to go (Vivek Ramaswamy). My goodness. That can't be true.

Putin is a murderer. Long before the attack on Ukraine, he had government critics murdered at home and abroad - just like the Iranian leadership. Why doesn't that get through to the Oval Office? Or does it not matter who you ally yourself with as long as the cash is right?

Mining rare earths without security guarantees from the USA is an invitation for Putin. Only fear of you keeps him in check.
Trump's perpetrator-victim reversal is remarkable - to put it mildly.
But, as of today at the latest, Selensky is on more than one hit list.

"I would again note, a number of very smart analysts believe Russia currently is in far worse military and economic shape than Ukraine".
Red Leg:
your word in god's ear.

 

[Lone Star Bluegrass]

If I had to guess, Zelensky calculated he had a better chance trying to have a “gotcha” moment on live TV with Trump and it backfired. He should’ve nodded along, “we want peace…” and hammered the particulars behind closed doors. He will not get a better deal out of Trump if he comes back for a second round.

 

[mdwest]

Watching the extended video, it sounds like everything hit the skids when Zelensky objected to JDV saying that Biden wasn’t willing to entertain a diplomatic solution, which of course is true—when Russia invaded Biden offered Zelensky to set up a government in exile and cut off diplomatic relations with the Russians. Zelensky cut off JDV and questioned whether diplomacy has a place because Obama did nothing when Russia invaded Crimea.
Then the wheels came off.

if thats true, Zelenskyy made a truly terrible tactical move in what should have been a larger scale strategic play..

that however doesn't excuse Trump or Vances response to that terrible move..



Far too often when there is a crisis people focus on how they got there rather than how they're going to move forward and out of the crisis..

So what if Obama did nothing when Russia invaded Crimea?

and so what if Biden was entertaining diplomatic solutions from the moment Putin put troops on the border until the moment he left office.. or if he never entertained a diplomatic solution at all?

Any/all of that might play into how we got to where we are..

But none of it is going to fix how we need to move forward to get to where we want to be..

I expect more from world leaders..

 

[Aaron N]

Maybe trump has set up a Ukrainian mineral deal with Russia and is seeing if Zelensky will bring anything to the table before deciding which horse to bet on