Politics

[WAB]

[emoji6][emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji6]" data-quote="mdwest" data-source="post: 0" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

Theyve always got Newsome or Whitmer.. can try Tim Waltz again if they are feeling froggy...

I just blew coffee out of my nose! You will pay for that!

 

[Tundra Tiger]

For some reason, reading through a lot of the responses on this topic, this song came to mind. Hopefully the link works...

 

[mdwest]

Im not sure the bully analogy really applies in any capacity when we're talking about Ukraine and what we should or shouldn't do about it...

@Red Leg has several times in this thread over the last 3 years of the Russia/Ukraine war said (and I 100% agree with him) that our actions should be driven by our national interests..

We shouldn't commit ourselves to dealing with bullies just because they are bullies.. the world is full of them.. we could substantiate cause for taking action in dozens of other countries right now if that was our motivation..

Other countries need to deal with their own problems as a rule.. I don't think the US needs to be the defacto world police just because we have the ability...

Who cares if Putin is a bully? or if Trump is a bully? World leaders have often been bullies since the dawn of time.. that fact will never change..

What matters (IMO) is what is in the national interest of the US.. whether that is brokering a mineral deal.. or just giving the Ukrainians anything they ask for.. or simply walking away from the conflict altogether.. or any other possible "solution" any of us can come up with, should be driven by what best serves the US strategically..

Once we all agree on that, then a sensible debate can be had about what the US national interest is... is it being more aligned with the Russians than we have been historically? is it doing whatever we can to crush the Russians economically and militarily? is it something in between?

The Europeans should be having the same conversations amongst themselves as well... What is in their strategic interest? and how can they best achieve that?

Crying, finger pointing, blaming the US for not being their "friend" and all the other nonsense that's going on doesn't solve their short term or their long term problem.. ALL relationships are two way streets.. if you don't like where you are in a relationship, the first question should be what YOU did or didn't do to get yourself in the position you are currently in?

If all you're focused on is the other party and looking for someone to blame without holding yourself accountable for the role you played, you're frankly a fool, and will just find yourself in another relationship with the same problem again later..

doesn't matter if we're talking about a relationship between a father and son, a husband and wife, two friends, or two countries, or a bully and someone being bullied.. the same rules apply..

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Im not sure the bully analogy really applies in any capacity when we're talking about Ukraine and what we should or shouldn't do about it...

@Red Leg has several times in this thread over the last 3 years of the Russia/Ukraine war said (and I 100% agree with him) that our actions should be driven by our national interests..

We shouldn't commit ourselves to dealing with bullies just because they are bullies.. the world is full of them.. we could substantiate cause for taking action in dozens of other countries right now if that was our motivation..

Other countries need to deal with their own problems as a rule.. I don't think the US needs to be the defacto world police just because we have the ability...

Who cares if Putin is a bully? or if Trump is a bully? World leaders have often been bullies since the dawn of time.. that fact will never change..

What matters (IMO) is what is in the national interest of the US.. whether that is brokering a mineral deal.. or just giving the Ukrainians anything they ask for.. or simply walking away from the conflict altogether.. or any other possible "solution" any of us can come up with, should be driven by what best serves the US strategically..

Once we all agree on that, then a sensible debate can be had about what the US national interest is... is it being more aligned with the Russians than we have been historically? is it doing whatever we can to crush the Russians economically and militarily? is it something in between?

The Europeans should be having the same conversations amongst themselves as well... What is in their strategic interest? and how can they best achieve that?

Crying, finger pointing, blaming the US for not being their "friend" and all the other nonsense that's going on doesn't solve their short term or their long term problem.. ALL relationships are two way streets.. if you don't like where you are in a relationship, the first question should be what YOU did or didn't do to get yourself in the position you are currently in?

If all you're focused on is the other party and looking for someone to blame without holding yourself accountable for the role you played, you're frankly a fool, and will just find yourself in another relationship with the same problem again later..

doesn't matter if we're talking about a relationship between a father and son, a husband and wife, two friends, or two countries, or a bully and someone being bullied.. the same rules apply..

Very well said.

 

[KJE81]

Im not sure the bully analogy really applies in any capacity when we're talking about Ukraine and what we should or shouldn't do about it...

@Red Leg has several times in this thread over the last 3 years of the Russia/Ukraine war said (and I 100% agree with him) that our actions should be driven by our national interests..

We shouldn't commit ourselves to dealing with bullies just because they are bullies.. the world is full of them.. we could substantiate cause for taking action in dozens of other countries right now if that was our motivation..

Other countries need to deal with their own problems as a rule.. I don't think the US needs to be the defacto world police just because we have the ability...

Who cares if Putin is a bully? or if Trump is a bully? World leaders have often been bullies since the dawn of time.. that fact will never change..

What matters (IMO) is what is in the national interest of the US.. whether that is brokering a mineral deal.. or just giving the Ukrainians anything they ask for.. or simply walking away from the conflict altogether.. or any other possible "solution" any of us can come up with, should be driven by what best serves the US strategically..

Once we all agree on that, then a sensible debate can be had about what the US national interest is... is it being more aligned with the Russians than we have been historically? is it doing whatever we can to crush the Russians economically and militarily? is it something in between?

The Europeans should be having the same conversations amongst themselves as well... What is in their strategic interest? and how can they best achieve that?

Crying, finger pointing, blaming the US for not being their "friend" and all the other nonsense that's going on doesn't solve their short term or their long term problem.. ALL relationships are two way streets.. if you don't like where you are in a relationship, the first question should be what YOU did or didn't do to get yourself in the position you are currently in?

If all you're focused on is the other party and looking for someone to blame without holding yourself accountable for the role you played, you're frankly a fool, and will just find yourself in another relationship with the same problem again later..

doesn't matter if we're talking about a relationship between a father and son, a husband and wife, two friends, or two countries, or a bully and someone being bullied.. the same rules apply..

I think that Europe is finally waking up, albeit far to late, but now it seems to be an honest movement to build up an credible european defence and not to rely on the US in the future.

The first Trump term was a wake up call that was unfortunately largely ignored when everything returned to normal when Biden was elected. But now with the second Trump term it seems that many european leaders finally have realized that it is a bad idea to stake to much on the transatlantic link when it risks to be completly severed every four years depending on who currently resides in the White House.

 

[bowjijohn]

Excellent interview that may explain some of the method behind the madness. Can we have him for President please
Sorry if someone already put it up.

Secretary Rubio: Trump has had 'constant' engagement with Ukraine amid push to end war | Fox News Video

Secretary of State Marco Rubio sits down with Fox News' Brian Kilmeade to discuss the latest on the effort to end the war in Ukraine, the need for NATO allies to step up and top priorities under his leadership at the State Department.

www.foxnews.com

Powerful interview

Both enlightened and reassuring

 

[Lone Star Bluegrass]

The Lovely and Talented Pam Bondi is about to start naming names.

The final sordid Epstein secrets set to finally be revealed by Trump

A veil of secrecy is about to be lifted and that could be embarrassing, or perhaps worse, for a litany of high-profile figures.

mol.im

 

[John Wasmuth]

I’ll believe it when I see it

 

[Aaron N]

It will be interesting to see wether the prices change on the 1 of march or if Amazon indeed will lower its profits by not putting the cost of the tariff on the customer then.

Amazon is more or less a hosting and delivery company. Most of the sellers are third party, so I would assume that they would pass the increase onto Amazon, and so forth.

I am open to being corrected though.

 

[Pondoro]

Trump now say he will put 25% toll on all goods from the EU.. He claims that EU was formed to exploit USA.. The latter is completely insane.

 

[Foxi]

One exception might be the UK. Since the Roman Empire, I can't think of any other near peer relationship that existed as much through common culture and mutual national interests as that between the United States and United Kingdom. But even that has only been the case since the Second World War. It is termed a special relationship for a reason.

the biggest difference is probably the language

 

[mdwest]

Trump now say he will put 25% toll on all goods from the EU.. He claims that EU was formed to exploit USA.. The latter is completely insane.

you do realize that he, and several other US politicians have been saying that since 2016 right.. and that this is nothing new at all...

Europe’s dependence on the US was all part of the plan

Postwar US statesmen designed our world order as it is for a reason. They had lived through what happened without it.

www.politico.eu

it might also interest you that a pretty significant number of US citizens believe the same thing..

whether their sentiment is right or wrong really isn't of consequence.. read the earlier post about relationships... where the US and the EU are in their relationship is the fault of all parties involved..

the question europeans should be asking is.. why do some US politicians and some US citizens feel this way? what has happened to cause this?

until everyone starts getting to the bottom of why.. whether you think Trump is insane, or Trump thinks the EU is a leech, really doesn't matter..

you might also want to consider that the US stepping away from the EU isn't just a MAGA thought.. polls, reports, etc.. have been getting published for the last few years showing that younger generations in the US are not nearly as favorable toward the EU as older generations..

So.. are the typically liberal millennials and Gen Z also insane just like the older more conservative Gen X?

The United States Stepping Back From Europe Is a Matter of When, Not Whether

The younger generation is not likely to carry on President Biden’s level of commitment to a leading U.S. role in European security. So the United States stepping back from Europe is a matter of when, not whether.

carnegieendowment.org

Do you not think Europe played some sort of role in the falling out? Or are you really nieve enough to believe its all because the Orange Man is bad?

 

[Pondoro]

you do realize that he, and several other US politicians have been saying that since 2016 right.. and that this is nothing new at all...

Europe’s dependence on the US was all part of the plan

Postwar US statesmen designed our world order as it is for a reason. They had lived through what happened without it.

www.politico.eu

it might also interest you that a pretty significant number of US citizens believe the same thing..

whether their sentiment is right or wrong really isn't of consequence.. read the earlier post about relationships... where the US and the EU are in their relationship is the fault of all parties involved..

the question europeans should be asking is.. why do some US politicians and some US citizens feel this way? what has happened to cause this?

until everyone starts getting to the bottom of why.. whether you think Trump is insane, or Trump thinks the EU is a leech, really doesn't matter..

Prices will soar globally..toll is sand in the machinery for commerce. Inflation will probably be driven up..

 

[Pondoro]

So what is next from Trump..? Claim reimbursement of the Marshall Plan..??

 

[mdwest]

Prices will soar globally..toll is sand in the machinery for commerce. Inflation will probably be driven up..

and your point is?

 

[mdwest]

So what is next from Trump..? Claim reimbursement of the Marshall Plan..??

all ask again... who cares?

do you really think Europe has played no role in the disintegrating relationship? you're just victims?

 

[Pondoro]

all ask again... who cares?

do you really think Europe has played no role in the disintegrating relationship? you're just victims?

Is USA a victim..?

 

[mdwest]

Depends on who you ask...

The consensus of the conservative right, which is in power now whether a Swede likes it or not, is that Europe have taken advantage of US good will, and that it will not be taken advantage of any longer..

They point to higher tariffs on US goods than the US has historically placed on EU goods... they point to the US contributing a higher number of dollars (not % of GDP, but actual dollars) to the conflict in Ukraine than any EU nation.. and they point to the fact that while most of the NATO members have indeed stepped up their game SOME in terms of defense spending, many are still not meeting their contracted obligation and show no intent of doing so.. it might interest you that Sweden is among those countries still contributing less than 2% of its GDP.. in 2023 it contributed 1.4734%...


The liberals in the US don't seem to have a problem with the above.. the conservatives clearly do...

Well.. the conservatives are in power now..

Rather than crying, whining, and bitching like school children.. what exactly does the EU intend to do about it?

Again.. relationships are 2 way streets... WE got here because of BOTH parties.. and where we go from here is going to depend on BOTH parties and the decisions they make moving forward..

 

[Pondoro]

Depends on who you ask...

The consensus of the conservative right, which is in power now whether a Swede likes it or not, is that Europe have taken advantage of US good will, and that it will not be taken advantage of any longer..

They point to higher tariffs on US goods than the US has historically placed on EU goods... they point to the US contributing a higher number of dollars (not % of GDP, but actual dollars) to the conflict in Ukraine than any EU nation.. and they point to the fact that while most of the NATO members have indeed stepped up their game SOME in terms of defense spending, many are still not meeting their contracted obligation and show no intent of doing so.. it might interest you that Sweden is among those countries still contributing less than 2% of its GDP.. in 2023 it contributed 1.4734%...


The liberals in the US don't seem to have a problem with the above.. the conservatives clearly do...

Well.. the conservatives are in power now..

Rather than crying, whining, and bitching like school children.. what exactly does the EU intend to do about it?

Again.. relationships are 2 way streets... WE got here because of BOTH parties.. and where we go from here is going to depend on BOTH parties and the decisions they make moving forward..

EU will of course answer with a similar toll on american goods..

 

[mdwest]

Then the dissolution of the relationship between the US and the EU will clearly be the fault of both parties..

The EU has choices to make.. those choices should be framed by what the EU thinks is in its best interest..

The US has choices to make.. those choices are being made by what those in charge thinks is in the best interest of the US..

If those choices and best interests arent aligned.. then they simply are not..