Politics

[CoElkHunter]

If the minimum wage in Mexico is 1 dollar an hour, and they're making 16x that (or more) working on a sod farm, it would be like me being able to go somewhere and make $116 an hour (7.25 x 16). Without overtime that comes out to about 240k a year. You show me the place I can go and make 240k a year as a laborer on a sod farm and I'm probably packing a bag tonight.

Qatar, UAE or Saudi Arabia? LOL

 

[Corey0372]

Qatar, UAE or Saudi Arabia? LOL

They probably got Bangladeshi's doing it for less than we pay the Mexicans!

 

[Scott CWO]

I've been around AG my entire life as well; former FFA district president, degree in agriculture, own a farm and besides owning my own business I am also a University employee tasked with answering agriculture issues for producers.

You are correct about American city kids - These days it seems that most of them are only children who have had parents helicopter over them so they live a consequence and sweat free existence; while oddly enough paying money to workout in a gym.

As for the "They pick our lettuce" argument.......

1. Less than 1% of all illegal immigrants are involved in agriculture work, but 44% of farm laborers are illegal immigrants - Very Telling.

2. Mechanization is changing agriculture FAST - When is the last time you heard of a human being harvesting sugarcane in the USA? The Florida Crystals Corporation imported THOUSANDS of Haitians into south Florida to harvest sugarcane and when they got replaced by machines the workers were allowed to stay.

3. Means and methods - farming succulents(especially lettuce) is being moved to hydroponic cultivation and it truly is a superior product that is much more efficient, better for the environment, lowers transportation cost/loss and is much less labor intensive. - So in 10 years we are going to be needing much less farm labor than we do now.

4. Exploitation - Every farmer/rancher I've ever met loves to moan about how they don't make any money, but I know some that make FORTUNES; oddly enough the greater the wealth of farmers the more willing they are to turn a blind eye to exploitation and especially so when it comes to labor contractors who are generally the anchor babies of 1st generation illegals and these labor contractors are the modern slave drivers and YES physical violence is still very much used as a motivation...... I've seen these people first hand in agriculture and excavation, they make their money on human suffering and I wish the federal government would step into dealing with this human tracking.

What's the answer? A organized farm labor union just like Cesar Chavez wanted, but he could never get it because employers would rather exploit desperate illegals than deal with a legal organized workforce.

These programs already exist - Such as the program for South American sheep herders that are allowed to come and work in the USA and are the ones responsible for maintaining flocks of sheep on the vast ranches and leases in the western U.S.A.

Off subject a bit but one of our ranchers brought in 700 goats and a Peruvian herder on a ranch where we hunt deer. With the goats and herder constantly bumping the deer out of bedding areas, the hunting plummeted because the deer left the ranch. Luckily the Peruvian wanted to leave after three months and I had to double the lease payment to get the rancher to get rid of the goats. What a mess!

 

[flatwater bill]

There are a lot of farmers and ranchers near me that hire legal immigrants. I don't think the President is opposed to ALL immigration, just illegals. Workers will still be able to come over to do ag work. @WAB is right.....you can't find many US kids that will do it. I have hired quite a few of them, some were truly great kids, but most burned out in less than a week.....FWB

 

[Brent in Az]

The Communist(C) News(N) Network(N), is laying off 3500 employees today. They said they will be focusing more on the Global market.

Trump broke them ......LOL.

 

[WAB]

There are a lot of farmers and ranchers near me that hire legal immigrants. I don't think the President is opposed to ALL immigration, just illegals. Workers will still be able to come over to do ag work. @WAB is right.....you can't find many US kids that will do it. I have hired quite a few of them, some were truly great kids, but most burned out in less than a week.....FWB

A sad side effect of improved Ag efficiency is a greatly reduced farm population. Farm kids grow up knowing how to work. I don’t care how much time you spend in the gym, it doesn’t prepare you for digging a ditch or priming tobacco in hundred degree heat.

My great grandfather homesteaded our farm with his wife and two boys. Every acre was cleared by hand, then ditched and tiled by hand. The barns went up in community barn raisings, the house was a three story farmhouse ordered from the Sears catalog and delivered by wagon (the true precursor to IKEA). We’ve lost have lost something special as a society with the loss of this work ethic and capability. My experience with Mexican crews is that they still have some of this. I am a strong supporter of improving the work permit system to allow easier access for lawful, hard working people. This puts them in a position to better their lives and contribute to our society.

 

[steve white]

A sad side effect of improved Ag efficiency is a greatly reduced farm population. Farm kids grow up knowing how to work. I don’t care how much time you spend in the gym, it doesn’t prepare you for digging a ditch or priming tobacco in hundred degree heat.

My great grandfather homesteaded our farm with his wife and two boys. Every acre was cleared by hand, then ditched and tiled by hand. The barns went up in community barn raisings, the house was a three story farmhouse ordered from the Sears catalog and delivered by wagon (the true precursor to IKEA). We’ve lost have lost something special as a society with the loss of this work ethic and capability. My experience with Mexican crews is that they still have some of this. I am a strong supporter of improving the work permit system to allow easier access for lawful, hard working people. This puts them in a position to better their lives and contribute to our society.

My grandfather and his siblings cleared land in east Texas for $2.50 an acre in the winter months when they couldn't farm. They only had axes and crosscut saws, and just for fun would have races to see who could cut the most in an hour. I still have a turning hook they used to roll the logs up onto wagons and I have used it. We all have hard workers in our heritage. Now it doesn't take a farm job to make the young ones quit--they are perfectly disaffected with any number of things in their soft jobs.

I wonder if it has ever occurred to anyone--if we refuse to be a people who work hard, believe in God, and have our children rather than abort them....would God move in a population who WILL?

 

[Hunt anything]

I get that, but the point I'm making is these H2A guys are making around 5x what they would be making in Mexico, and they spend that money in Mexico, where the dollar buys a lot more. They aren't planning their future around living on those wages in the US. If an American started working at your place at 16.50 an hour, and was able to maintain the standard of work required, how long would it take before he's making 5x that pay scale working there? Probably never right?

Do you pay Americans the same rate you pay these H2A guys? Per that article I posted earlier the average harvest worker in Mexico makes about $3.76 US an hour, so they're making about 5x that working for you. Minimum wage in Mexico is about 10-11 US dollars a day, so just over 1 US dollar an hour if we assume an 8-10 hour work day. https://www.reuters.com/world/ameri...20-2023-raising-inflation-worries-2022-12-02/
So even if they stayed in Mexico, and did harvest work there, on average they would make a little over 3x the Mexican minimum wage. The wages you listed as 16.50-20 an hour isn't 3x the US federal minimum wage of 7.25, or 5x the US minimum wage, and it definitely isn't 5x the average salary of an American born farm laborer.

Do you think if you paid an American $21.75 an hour (3 x $7.25 minimum wage), with anything over 40 hours a week time and a half, they would stick around? What about $36.25 an hour (5 x 7.25 minimum wage)?

We do pay the Americans more, You mentioned time and a half, farm workers don’t get overtime. No idea why.

 

[cwpayton]

So when I shoot off my mouth, Im generally blowing off steam, but still speaking to the truth. there were 138 different nationalities coming across the Rio Grande ,last time I checked. Thats alot of different cultures. As far as sheep herders ,they got my respect , basq and Peruvians. settled in NV. in early 1900s,hard deal, hard workers. Mexicans the same. I wouldn't want to spend my spare time carving naked women on aspen tree trunks. however, I am acquainted with hard work , ran a wildland fire crew for years, and tried to run mostly Mexicans cause they work, 3rd gen. starts to change and they got mouthy, and lazier, in general. white guys was a punch bowl draw usually to the bad. but because of prison D E I I had to run a few .
I support H1 H2 VISA workers, ranch across the valley brought in some south Africans [ white] they were good workers, in fact the head cow boss got fired for treating them like shait and come plaining.
we just need a border that is enforced if that is possible at this late stage of the game. GONNA be interesting.

 

[Brent in Az]

Murkowski won't be voting for Hegseth.

She is just a different version of Liz Cheney

 

[Red Leg]

That didn't take long. This quick ruling will have the virtue of speeding up the appeal process. SCOTUS may end up combining several cases. I have no idea, but I would guess it will end up either 7/2 overturning the EO or 5/4 supporting.

BREAKING: Federal Judge Rules on Trump's Birthright Citizenship Executive Order

redstate.com

 

[deewayne2003]

That didn't take long. This quick ruling will have the virtue of speeding up the appeal process. SCOTUS may end up combining several cases. I have no idea, but I would guess it will end up either 7/2 overturning the EO or 5/4 supporting.

BREAKING: Federal Judge Rules on Trump's Birthright Citizenship Executive Order

redstate.com

Federal judge in Seattle..... Go figure

I'm optimistic for the SCOTUS ruling

 

[Altitude sickness]

The USSC will agree that the 14th amendment was written for Ex slaves. But I predict they will not side with Trumps EO.

I am guessing the discussion will be around what do they do with the millions of people born her to non citizens for decades. They will let it ride.

Trump can say he tried

 

[Altitude sickness]

Trump just signed the EO to release ALL JFK, RFK and MLK files

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Federal judge in Seattle..... Go figure

I'm optimistic for the SCOTUS ruling

That was my thought too, about Seattle, but it did say he was a Reagan appointee.

 

[Altitude sickness]

It looks like Hegseth is going to be confirmed, even though there were two Republican defectors.

With all this, he said, she said. testimony against him. It’s shocking that somebody at that level of security clearances does not have to have a polygraph exam.

I was required at various times to sit for several of them over the years.
And I’m sure others here have also.

It just always amazes me that we peons have a higher level of scrutiny than the SecDef

 

[Lone Star Bluegrass]

It looks like Hegseth is going to be confirmed, even though there were two Republican defectors.

With all this, he said, she said. testimony against him. It’s shocking that somebody at that level of security clearances does not have to have a polygraph exam.

I was required at various times to sit for several of them over the years.
And I’m sure others here have also.

It just always amazes me that we peons have a higher level of scrutiny than the SecDef

That pesky Constitution gettin’ in the way again…

Article 2, Section 2, Clause 2

 

[Tundra Tiger]

It looks like Hegseth is going to be confirmed, even though there were two Republican defectors.

With all this, he said, she said. testimony against him. It’s shocking that somebody at that level of security clearances does not have to have a polygraph exam.

I was required at various times to sit for several of them over the years.
And I’m sure others here have also.

It just always amazes me that we peons have a higher level of scrutiny than the SecDef

In fairness I don't think many folks consider Murkowski a "Republican"...

According to what I found online, she voted with Obama 70% of the time and Biden 67%. And she seems to often vote against Republican admin nominees of any importance.

Redleg will point out that the people of Alaska keep re-electing her. How, I have no idea. But... fair enough. The last election she did not have the support of the Alaskan Republican Party - they endorsed Tshibaka. She truly is, by her record, a RINO. Why anyone ever thinks of her as a Republican is beyond me.

 

[Red Leg]

It looks like Hegseth is going to be confirmed, even though there were two Republican defectors.

With all this, he said, she said. testimony against him. It’s shocking that somebody at that level of security clearances does not have to have a polygraph exam.

I was required at various times to sit for several of them over the years.
And I’m sure others here have also.

It just always amazes me that we peons have a higher level of scrutiny than the SecDef

I carried a TS/SCI my whole military and civilian career and was read onto numerous programs but none required a polygraph. Several were very limited access. I would be surprised if 10% of military compartmented programs require a polygraph. Those that do are often HUMINT related.

 

[cash_tx]

Not only is this an absurd concept, but the title of the bill isn't even logical. I smell a freshman senator just trying to grab some spotlight. Otherwise, it's cold showers for our members from Mississippi.

Mississippi lawmaker introduces 'Contraception Begins at Erection Act'

The bill, which is unlikely to pass, would make it unlawful for “a person to discharge genetic material without the intent to fertilize an embryo.”

www.nbcnews.com