Politics

Really can’t call a shot on a video that short with no definitive audio, etc…

We don’t know how long the officer tried to obtain compliance from the person being arrested… we don’t know if the person was threatening the officer verbally or made some sort of move that he was previously advised no to make… we don’t know his mental state.. whether he was under the influence of anything… or anything else..

Remember we all saw a short video of George Floyd too that told one story… but when the longer videos were released, toxicology was released etc… we learned that there was something completely different going on..

I also think back to my own law enforcement days… I always tried to be polite and always tried to de-escalate situations whenever possible…

But…

Once the line was crossed and I had to go “hands on”… you could expect my 6’4”, 255 lb (then) ass to get very violent, very quickly…

Screwing around and trying to politely put a resisting perp in custody is how officers and bystanders get hurt…

If I told you “turn around and put your hands behind your back” more than once, and you either passively or actively resisted my lawful order… you could definitely count on a very forceful takedown happening in very short order…

The guys head bouncing off the pavement didn’t appear intentional… it just happened as a result of how the guy fell during the takedown…
Like you I have forcibly taken people down but a more relaxed, easy going manner, with a little respect goes a long way in gaining compliance.

Law enforcement has forgotten that they are there to protect and serve. You can de escalate and gain compliance. Law enforcement training is too much about going hands on and making people submit when they don’t need to.

I’ve seen a longer version of the video and the Officer used unnecessary, and potentially illegal, force. There was a cultural difference that the Officer should have been perceptive to. The version I saw also had audio and it’s clear that the Officer got mad. Getting exasperated because of a cultural difference or lack of driving knowledge isn’t legal justification for harming someone.

It’s unconstitutional acts by law enforcement, like this, that cause me to distrust and despise the new breed. If I have a problem I won’t call a police officer as I’ve never seen a situation not made worse when the morons in blue show up. I used to be law enforcement I’m sorry to say. Today’s law enforcement is an embarrassment on humanity.
 
Surprise Surprise.......

My PH told me of things in RSA. Had a new term for them-TERMITES.
 
NOLA suspects truck came across the border st Eagle pass Texas 2 days ago.
Officials are still trying to sort out the details.
I don't think there's much to sort out, other than gathering intel on potential attacks in the future. He was sporting an ISIS flag. And apparently, they've found at least 1 IED.
 
My PH told me of things in RSA. Had a new term for them-TERMITES.

As an American its very hard to understand the mind of the African because it is so different. Here, the default setting is to tend to the needs of your family, your town, your State, your American citizen, and depending on bent thereafter it would be worldwide comrades (e.g. human race, your religion, your ethnicity in diaspora, whatever)

Every once in a great while we find someone that was literally treasonous to the cause of the American way, enriching themselves for the benefit of an enemy of the west/good/ethical/American. When we catch those people, beyond the financial and criminal consequences, they are persona non grata in society. Not at their country club, their fraternity, their civic organizations, their trade association, their town....they are dead to the world.

The above is how an American thinks, so we overlay that on Africa and assume there is a logical similarity but it isn't so. There is a disproportionate pressure on an African to employ and gift his family and tribe patronage jobs and money even if there is no justification, thus they are anti-American in that they do not value meritocracy. Contrast that to America where many fathers fire their own kin if they are not cutting it at the family business. (or buy them out, or transfer them to a job they actually have qualifications)

Expanding the circle wider in Africa, there is no concept of Statehood or the "American way" where we want all our citizens to do well. There is no moral infraction for taking a bribe that destroy's the fabric of an African State, or that harms your fellow citizen, particularly if they are Matebele and you're Tonga, or they're Tonga and you're Shona. Artificial borders created by white colonials do not make you brothers in Africa, they are simply other species competing against you in a zero-sum game mentality. They collectively have no shame in undermining their own society if they can be personally enriched, a bonus if others suffer if you take it all first.

Which brings us to the other issue of sub-saharan Africa related to suffering and cruelty. In virtually every language of sub-saharan Africa there is no native word for cruelty. It is such a foreign concept that in almost all their languages, they had to borrow the word from Dutch or English because they never had need to describe cruel behavior.

The last problem is that a durable contract is what builds a society. Long before the Magna Carta and the US Constitution, the Christian-European principle of a firm handshake was a binding contract. The west and the Abrahamic religions have had a concept of a contract, a promise, a pledge, a vow, or other similar concepts that allow us to shake hands and do right by the other party, our community, or our country. That doesn't even exist linguistically in sub-saharan Africa. The words promise, pledge, vow, obligation, and other words were all borrowed modern words inserted into their languages by European colonials. All of them ultimately are interpreted "to make an attempt", "to try", etc. You can imagine how this becomes a problem if you're taking an oath as a public servant, a soldier, a politician, a man of the cloth, or simply trying to negotiate a verbal contract.

All of these differences result in self-dealing at the fiber and fabric of sub-Saharan Africa. The abandonment of colonialism has created a vacuum where the natural tendencies of the "might makes right" indigenous are the normative case. This is why it is so easy for the Chinese to conquer the world with their new "Silk road" initiatives. A few million dollars bribe can get virtually any African politiician to approve a Sovereign debt loan to build something the African does not need or want with a loan terms that the African State can never repay. For example in Tanzania a few bribes resulted in a Sovereign loan from China to build the railroads and of course a default by the State on those loans. Forever, in perpetuity, all goods and services by rail in Tanzania are now within the control of the Chinese. This is the same for mineral rights and other forestry/mining interests throughout Africa, but especially in the SADC (the southern nations). The Chinese continue to offer petty bribes to corrupt people willing to sell out their race/town/country, and in turn the Chinese quickly call the loans and nationalize that portion of Africa's economy forever. The Chinese are doing this elsewhere in places like Sri Lanka and Afghanistan, but no place as much as Africa because the culture and morality allows it to be so effective for so cheap.

Meanwhile the west has abandoned colonialism and we do not have western organized governments left in Africa (may Rhodesia rest in peace) so the west is asleep at the wheel, watching our enemies buy up the planet for pennies.

When I was a kid I thought the whites in Africa were racists because they refused the one-man, one-vote demands out of hatred for other races. Excepting Apartheid South Africa, the rest of the region wasn't actually racist, they understood that there was cultural development that had to happen and an overwhelming respect for Judeo-Christian values and love of country that needed to develop before you turn over the power of mob rule to people that will sell each other out for pennies, sometimes just for the sake of causing suffering in others in their own country.
 
Like you I have forcibly taken people down but a more relaxed, easy going manner, with a little respect goes a long way in gaining compliance.

Law enforcement has forgotten that they are there to protect and serve. You can de escalate and gain compliance. Law enforcement training is too much about going hands on and making people submit when they don’t need to.

I’ve seen a longer version of the video and the Officer used unnecessary, and potentially illegal, force. There was a cultural difference that the Officer should have been perceptive to. The version I saw also had audio and it’s clear that the Officer got mad. Getting exasperated because of a cultural difference or lack of driving knowledge isn’t legal justification for harming someone.

It’s unconstitutional acts by law enforcement, like this, that cause me to distrust and despise the new breed. If I have a problem I won’t call a police officer as I’ve never seen a situation not made worse when the morons in blue show up. I used to be law enforcement I’m sorry to say. Today’s law enforcement is an embarrassment on humanity.
Just curious what is your expertise, background, education and training whereupon you draw your conclusions in regard to law enforcement? From what you have written I would conclude very little or nothing. There are approximately 1,280,000 sworn officers and 18,000 agencies throughout the U.S. that have thousands of daily interactions with people without incident but I guess you know better.
 
I don't think there's much to sort out, other than gathering intel on potential attacks in the future. He was sporting an ISIS flag. And apparently, they've found at least 1 IED.
I meant they are trying to sort out the truck coming across the border details, from when the license plate was spotted on the camera, and if he was actually the person that brought it across, or possible plate swap, accomplices, etc
 
Just curious what is your expertise, background, education and training whereupon you draw your conclusions in regards to law enforcement? From what you have written I would conclude very little or nothing. There are approximately 1,280,000 sworn officers and 18,000 agencies throughout the U.S. that have thousands of daily interactions with people without incident but I guess you know better.
In various posts, he has proclaimed the US government corrupt and unredeemable, that our society should be destroyed and rebuilt, and that he expects to die, gloriously no doubt, in some nihilist fantasy of a revolution or civil war. That he should hate law enforcement as well simply fits his role as a modern Zarathustra. Nietzsche would approve.
 

I wonder what the rules of engagement were to charge them with use of excessive force. The guy had a suicide vest but they were expected to arrest him instead of shooting him. :unsure:
 
In various posts, he has proclaimed the US government corrupt and unredeemable, that our society should be destroyed and rebuilt, and that he expects to die, gloriously no doubt, in some nihilist fantasy of a revolution or civil war. That he should hate law enforcement as well simply fits his role as a modern Zarathustra. Nietzsche would approve.
Interesting. I have encountered more than a few “sovereign citizens” during my career. Most were fairly benign and a very few were extremely dangerous.
 
Like you I have forcibly taken people down but a more relaxed, easy going manner, with a little respect goes a long way in gaining compliance.

Law enforcement has forgotten that they are there to protect and serve. You can de escalate and gain compliance. Law enforcement training is too much about going hands on and making people submit when they don’t need to.

I’ve seen a longer version of the video and the Officer used unnecessary, and potentially illegal, force. There was a cultural difference that the Officer should have been perceptive to. The version I saw also had audio and it’s clear that the Officer got mad. Getting exasperated because of a cultural difference or lack of driving knowledge isn’t legal justification for harming someone.

It’s unconstitutional acts by law enforcement, like this, that cause me to distrust and despise the new breed. If I have a problem I won’t call a police officer as I’ve never seen a situation not made worse when the morons in blue show up. I used to be law enforcement I’m sorry to say. Today’s law enforcement is an embarrassment on humanity.

please post a link to the longer video you have seen... otherwise, frankly the entirety of your post is unsubstantiated bullshit.. you claim he lost his temper.. cool... prove it... you claim he showed a lack of cultural sensitivity.. cool... prove it.. you claim unnecessary force and potentially illegal force.. cool... prove it...

lets not forget that you're the guy that has gone out of his way for months to make post after post stating your dislike, distrust of all things related to government.. and to my knowledge hasn't made a positive post on this board since arriving...

Id also like to know what experience, education, or knowledge your assessments come from... you're going to make your claims... you claim to have been a cop at some point... when was that? for how long? what sized agency? what part of the country? what level of rank/position did you obtain? how long were you in patrol? did you ever work in a training capacity? If you were indeed a cop, you know every one of those questions is relevant and matters...

Lets not forget that the AG, the FOP, the Chief, most likely IA, and a host of others have seen ALL of the video from both the dash cam and the body cam, and ALL of the video from the surveillance cam.. and have interviewed ALL of the people that witnessed the event, etc.. they are not reliant on an EDITED version of the footage that a news agency chose to show you (which by the way doesn't tell a very key part of the story.. I am sure, intentionally... like.. how exactly did Vu end up out of the vehicle in the first place? and why was Vu out of the vehicle.. had Vu not gotten out of the vehicle, the incident wouldn't have happened (certainly at least not in this manner)...

So.. your version of events is supposed to trump those people full investigation of the events? your limited pervue of information trumps the much larger data dump that those people have access to? and your experience and knowledge of the criminal justice system, law enforcement, and things like law enforcement training exceeds the AG, FOP President, Chief of Police, Internal Affairs, etc?

Law enforcement if anything has steered HARD away from "going hands on" over the last 30+ years... are defensive tactics still taught? absolutely.. other hard skills like driving, shooting, radio operations, etc still taught? absolutely.. but academies these days are much, much more focused on LIABILITY than ever before.. why? because we live in a much more letigious and liability soaked world than we ever have been before.. If anything, officers get significantly more training on things like "cultural sensitivity", than they ever have been before.. most academies in fact far exceed their states requirements for the number of hours of training a police officer must undertake before commissioning them.. because of all of the additional "soft" skills training that they must now get...

Go back to the 80's.. a police academy was for the most part "hard skills" only... with a little bit of constitutional law thrown in... by the 90's, post Rodney King, things started pivoting quite a bit and "soft skills" started to get more focus... today cadets spend as much or more time in the classroom listening to someone teaching at the podium focused on "soft skills" as they do out on the range, in the gym, in the cars, etc..
 

I wonder what the rules of engagement were to charge them with use of excessive force. The guy had a suicide vest but they were expected to arrest him instead of shooting him. :unsure:

Seem to be going after them in a few different countries...ie going after their own SF units....these specimens they are fighting don't or ever will abide by whatever rules of engagement are in place...so as far as I can see they have no rights....cull them simple
 
Like you I have forcibly taken people down but a more relaxed, easy going manner, with a little respect goes a long way in gaining compliance.

Law enforcement has forgotten that they are there to protect and serve. You can de escalate and gain compliance. Law enforcement training is too much about going hands on and making people submit when they don’t need to.

I’ve seen a longer version of the video and the Officer used unnecessary, and potentially illegal, force. There was a cultural difference that the Officer should have been perceptive to. The version I saw also had audio and it’s clear that the Officer got mad. Getting exasperated because of a cultural difference or lack of driving knowledge isn’t legal justification for harming someone.

It’s unconstitutional acts by law enforcement, like this, that cause me to distrust and despise the new breed. If I have a problem I won’t call a police officer as I’ve never seen a situation not made worse when the morons in blue show up. I used to be law enforcement I’m sorry to say. Today’s law enforcement is an embarrassment on humanity.

Mmm...is there anything you are positive about.....or don't dislike or hate?.....asking for a friend..... :E Shrug: :unsure:
 
No I understand what you're saying but you seem to take offense that someone has a differing opinion than yours so you're trying to accuse me of being obstinant.
the point is opinions dont matter...

the law matters... policy and procedure matter...

What if my opinion is CJW should be banned from AH? why would that matter? the rules of AH are clearly posted.. you haven't violated any of them... you've actually followed the rules very well (my opinion).. and we've engaged in clearly conflicted discourse without resorting to name calling, unprofessional behavior, etc.. so why should you be punished because a member might not like what you have to say?

you initially stated the officer committed attempted murder "or at least" aggravated assault.. that was clearly your opinion...

and your opinion was wrong... the law does not support your opinion in any way...

then you reverted to excessive force...

well.. again, the AG, the Chief, IA, the FOP, etc..etc..etc.. have all conducted investigations... and the requirements (criminally) to charge the officer with ANYTHING simply are not there...

Nor is there any evidence that he stepped out of line with his training, his departments policy, or his departments procedures... therefore he has not used excessive force (criminally... or in a way that the department can terminate him for)...

the civil courts might disagree.. the standard is different, and the requirements are different...

you also asked if the officer should be fired... and I asked very clearly "what for"?.. he has committed no crime.. he hasn't breached policy.. he hasn't breached training... what exactly are they going to fire him for? because someone who isn't the chief, the AG, the internal investigator, the FOP president has an opinion that isn't supported by anything other than what they saw on a newscast... who has no experience in the criminal justice system... who has no experience in law enforcement?

its perfectly ok to not like the situation... I don't think anyone in their right mind likes the outcome...

whats not ok is to persecute someone that didn't do anything wrong, per the AG, the FOP, the Chief, etc..etc.. because the outcome wasn't what was intended or what anyone likes..
 
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Interesting. I have encountered more than a few “sovereign citizens” during my career. Most were fairly benign and a very few were extremely dangerous.

same...

most were truthfully just idiots trying to play a game that they knew from the beginning they would lose.. but thought it would be fun to play...

a few were incredibly dangerous (like the two in the video posted earlier)..

the challenge is figuring out which group they belong to.. because its very rarely obvious or overt..

Id guess 75%+ of the "sovereign citizens" I dealt with were over the road truck drivers.. for some reason that industry seemed to get a lot of those guys.. they'd try to tell you they couldn't be stopped, their loads couldn't be inspected, etc..etc.. because they weren't subject to US law... then they'd try a fall back position of "only a US Marshal" has the authority to inspect them because they are on a US Interstate and not a state or local highway, etc..etc.. its was for the most part gamesmanship...

I never worked interstate interdiction.. but we'd get called out occasionally when I was working dope or swat to deal with trucker playing the sovereign citizen game because of the increased threat or the suspicion that they were hauling something other than what their manifest said...
 
the point is opinions dont matter...

the law matters... policy and procedure matter...

What if my opinion is CJW should be banned from AH? why would that matter? the rules of AH are clearly posted.. you haven't violated any of them... you've actually followed the rules very well (my opinion).. and we've engaged in clearly conflicted discourse without resorting to name calling, unprofessional behavior, etc.. so why should you be punished because a member might not like what you have to say?

you initially stated the officer committed attempted murder "or at least" aggravated assault.. that was clearly your opinion...

and your opinion was wrong... the law does not support your opinion in any way...

then you reverted to excessive force...

well.. again, the AG, the Chief, IA, the FOP, etc..etc..etc.. have all conducted investigations... and the requirements (criminally) to charge the officer with ANYTHING simply are not there...

Nor is there any evidence that he stepped out of line with his training, his departments policy, or his departments procedures... therefore he has not used excessive force...

the civil courts might disagree.. the standard is different, and the requirements are different...

you also asked if the officer should be fired... and I asked very clearly "what for"?.. he has committed no crime.. he hasn't breached policy.. he hasn't breached training... what exactly are they going to fire him for? because someone who isn't the chief, the AG, the internal investigator, the FOP president has an opinion that isn't supported by anything other than what they saw on a newscast... who has no experience in the criminal justice system... who has no experience in law enforcement?

its perfectly ok to not like the situation... I don't think anyone in their right mind likes the outcome...

whats not ok is to persecute someone that didn't do anything wrong, per the AG, the FOP, the Chief, etc..etc.. because the outcome wasn't what was intended..

My New Year's resolution is to end my part of beating the dead horse as I did plenty of it yesterday and my arms are tired. You can keep going if you feel it's not sufficiently pulverized.

Happy New Year!
 
My New Year's resolution is to end my part of beating the dead horse as I did plenty of it yesterday and my arms are tired. You can keep going if you feel it's not sufficiently pulverized.

Happy New Year!
Happy New Year to you as well! :)
 

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Everyone always thinks about the worst thing that can happen, maybe ask yourself what's the best outcome that could happen?
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