Politics

[Hunt anything]

Leave it to the republicans to screw up a perfectly good election.

 

[Tanks]

Lake won't run for office again

(The Center Square) – Citing a "corrupt machine" keeping her from winning a statewide election in Arizona, Kari Lake says she will not run for public office again.

www.thecentersquare.com

I am curious why Trump is asking her for a role in his administration. After all he is on record saying he doesn't care for losers, yet here we are.

 

[Brent in Az]

Trump just strongly endorsed him. If the House Chaos Caucus stops him from becoming the Speaker, get your popcorn as Trump's election might not be certified in time for the inauguration.

Some of those with concerns about Johnson are not part of the freedom caucus.
Johnson speaks out of both sides of his mouth, many people know it, and are tired of it.
The only reason that Trump is endorsing Johnson, is because after Trumps win, Johnson made it a point to stroke Trumps ego & agenda.

 

[Red Leg]

Trump just strongly endorsed him. If the House Chaos Caucus stops him from becoming the Speaker, get your popcorn as Trump's election might not be certified in time for the inauguration.

Must be so confusing for true loyalists to ……… well - whomever……..

 

[Red Leg]

Some of those with concerns about Johnson are not part of the freedom caucus.
Johnson speaks out of both sides of his mouth, many people know it, and are tired of it.
The only reason that Trump is endorsing Johnson, is because after Trumps win, Johnson made it a point to stroke Trumps ego & agenda.

Oh. I had not realized Trump could be played like. …….. well a politician?

 

[Brent in Az]

Oh. I had not realized Trump could be played like. …….. well a politician?

All you have to do is stroke his ego. His biggest weakness.

 

[wesheltonj]

Not really, the House Clerk can swear in the new House, it’s not dependent on the Speaker. The joint session is overseen by the VP.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

Short video. Thoughts?

Seems excessive to me.

 

[mdwest]

Really can’t call a shot on a video that short with no definitive audio, etc…

We don’t know how long the officer tried to obtain compliance from the person being arrested… we don’t know if the person was threatening the officer verbally or made some sort of move that he was previously advised no to make… we don’t know his mental state.. whether he was under the influence of anything… or anything else..

Remember we all saw a short video of George Floyd too that told one story… but when the longer videos were released, toxicology was released etc… we learned that there was something completely different going on..

I also think back to my own law enforcement days… I always tried to be polite and always tried to de-escalate situations whenever possible…

But…

Once the line was crossed and I had to go “hands on”… you could expect my 6’4”, 255 lb (then) ass to get very violent, very quickly…

Screwing around and trying to politely put a resisting perp in custody is how officers and bystanders get hurt…

If I told you “turn around and put your hands behind your back” more than once, and you either passively or actively resisted my lawful order… you could definitely count on a very forceful takedown happening in very short order…

The guys head bouncing off the pavement didn’t appear intentional… it just happened as a result of how the guy fell during the takedown…

 

[Katy Darren]

Oh. I had not realized Trump could be played like. …….. well a politician?

He’s been a phenomenal politician, you must be to get anything done. That said, he’s unlike any politician we’ve seen before for sure and genuinely wants to drain the swamp. We’ll see how much he can do that, that’s a huge task beyond any human. Any progress there is appreciated! Then 8 more years of Vance to continue the effort.

 

[Red Leg]

He’s been a phenomenal politician, you must be to get anything done. That said, he’s unlike any politician we’ve seen before for sure and genuinely wants to drain the swamp. We’ll see how much he can do that, that’s a huge task beyond any human. Any progress there is appreciated! Then 8 more years of Vance to continue the effort.

I do not know him well enough to know what he "genuinely" wants to do.

What I can do is react to what he does and what he actually says he wants to do. I remember almost no dialogue from him this cycle reference the "swamp." Like any new administration he can and should choose political appointees who will support his political agenda. But, there really isn't much of anything that he can do about members of the senate and house which his blindly loyal followers consider RINOs or swamp denizens. After all, 38 republican members of the house voted against his preferred budget deal just a couple of weeks ago. I think he, if not his constituents, realizes that everyone of those supposedly despised RINOs has their own district or state constituency that supports them. I suspect, after this recent budget reminder, he realizes that he can only get done those things for which he has the votes - starting with his own caucus.

He already seems to be working very hard to limit the power of the Freedom Caucus - a group that has been nothing but disruptive to the party's cohesion for the last several years. I think that is smart. He seems to understand that Mike Johnson is a consensus builder who delivers votes. He has come out strongly supportive of him. What is a shame is that Trump has to waste his limited political capital fighting the radical wing of his own party while the democrats work hard to solidify their opposition.

He has roughly 100 days to get anything meaningfully initiated on major issues like immigration. After that, both parties will treat him as a lame duck with respect to new initiatives as they look toward 2028. Attempting to run off representatives or senators of his own party will not be one of those things.

 

[BJH65]

Seems excessive to me.

Looks like he made a quick backhanded gesture making contact with the officer. The unlawful touching of another is usually considered a battery in most jurisdictions. If you put hands on an officer expect something to happen.

 

[CJW]

Really can’t call a shot on a video that short with no definitive audio, etc…

We don’t know how long the officer tried to obtain compliance from the person being arrested… we don’t know if the person was threatening the officer verbally or made some sort of move that he was previously advised no to make… we don’t know his mental state.. whether he was under the influence of anything… or anything else..

Remember we all saw a short video of George Floyd too that told one story… but when the longer videos were released, toxicology was released etc… we learned that there was something completely different going on..

I also think back to my own law enforcement days… I always tried to be polite and always tried to de-escalate situations whenever possible…

But…

Once the line was crossed and I had to go “hands on”… you could expect my 6’4”, 255 lb (then) ass to get very violent, very quickly…

Screwing around and trying to politely put a resisting perp in custody is how officers and bystanders get hurt…

If I told you “turn around and put your hands behind your back” more than once, and you either passively or actively resisted my lawful order… you could definitely count on a very forceful takedown happening in very short order…

The guys head bouncing off the pavement didn’t appear intentional… it just happened as a result of how the guy fell during the takedown…

Actually it's right there on the video. Notice the guy tap the left arm of the officer and do a shushing gesture right before the officer grabs him. Yes that's technically assault and an arrestable offense, I get it.

How he fell??? Yeah dude he fell. Definitely wasn't rag dolled by a much bigger dude half his age.

I hope your 6'4", 255 lb ass wasn't so tender that this is how you would handle this particular situation.

IMO, body slamming a 125 lb, 70 yr old guy because of that is excessive force. Borderline attempted murder. Definitely aggravated assault.

Here's a longer video. Notice how his superior calls it a de-escalation to cause a brain bleed, broken neck and broken eye socket.

 

[mdwest]

Actually it's right there on the video. Notice the guy tap the left arm of the officer and do a shushing gesture right before the officer grabs him. Yes that's technically assault and an arrestable offense, I get it.

How he fell??? Yeah dude he fell. Definitely wasn't rag dolled by a much bigger dude half his age.

I hope your 6'4", 255 lb ass wasn't so tender that this is how you would handle this particular situation.

IMO, body slamming a 125 lb, 70 yr old guy because of that is excessive force. Borderline attempted murder. Definitely aggravated assault.

Here's a longer video. Notice how his superior calls it a de-escalation to cause a brain bleed, broken neck and broken eye socket.

What does bigger dude half his age have to do with anything? you would prefer your local cops be old, frail, and incapable of defending themselves or the general public? clearly the smaller, older guy didn't have a problem violating the law in the presence of a larger, younger, uniformed police officer.. who told him several times the place to argue was court, not the side of the road.. and who also told him if he refused to sign and comply, the alternative was to go to jail..

either the guy committed an offense or he didn't.. either the officer followed his agency use of force continuum, or he didn't.. clearly the DA, the FOP, and others agreed.. the guy committed an offense, and the officer followed his continuum.. (and used a trained technique to do it)...

if you think that's attempted murder, you clearly haven't ever bothered to read the blacks law dictionary definition of murder or your states statute on murder.. you're just another guy making an assessment based on emotion/opinion rather than facts (exactly what the media and politicians love for you to do.. watch a video.. have no expertise in the field.. and then just let your emotions run wild.. regardless of the facts)...

Its also not aggravated assault (once again, read the OK state statute...)... opinions don't matter here.. the law does... while the action does meet several of the components of the law, the key missing link is INTENT... unless you can prove the officer INTENDED on those injuries.. its not Ag Asslt... Since he acted in accordance with the force continuum and used a technique he was trained to use (that happened to go awry when it was applied).. its going to be almost impossible to prove intent unless he outright admits to it or says something condemning (on video captured saying "I'm going to break your bones", etc)...

Once again I'll point to George Floyd...

Certainly looked really bad on the surface...

No one seemed to give a shit that the technique used to subdue Floyd was actually taught at the police academy and was approved by the police agency for use... all the media told you was a knee to the neck was "excessive force"... and suddenly the arresting officer was a "murderer"...

your assertion is equally ridiculous..

Does the police report assert that the reason the officer performed a take down (notice I have used that phrase a few times already) that he was shusshed by the perpetrator? or are you just assuming that is the cause.. what I see and hear is an officer give direction, and the perpetrator passively resist.. most police agencies allow empty handed control tactics and techniques to overcome passive resistance.. which includes a number of different takedown techniques..

and yes.. there is a "fall" that happens when a takedown is executed..

the question is.. was the head bouncing off the concrete intentional (id guess not)? or did it simply occur as a result of the takedown being applied (which potentially resulted from the perpetrators' either active or passive resistance)...

the person making the statement was the president of the FOP, not the officers superior.... and his statement is actually correct... listen to what he SAID, not what you want to HEAR..

For what its worth, based on the LIMITED information provided in body cam footage, the security cam footage, and what was told in a news story... I'd have likely handled the situation EXACTLY the same way..

I might have used a different technique (I generally preferred a lateral vascular neck restraint whenever I could apply one... or I'd strike the common peroneal nerve with my knee (in High School we called it "dead legging" someone) to put someone in control... I very rarely used sweeps... because where I worked the last thing I wanted to do was go to the ground (there were always additional bad guys floating around).. and in a sweep situation its pretty easy to end up on the ground with your perp...

But, yes.. I would have taken him down... and likely taken him down very hard... Im not going to sit on the side of the road and argue all day.. or continue to expose myself to potential harm (yes an old guy can hurt you).. I would have also taken down a woman.. a juvenile.. or anyone else that passively resists, in accordance with the departments policies, agency training, and the law (none of which this guy violated according to the DA's office who dropped the charges), whether any of us like it or not)..

 

[Katy Darren]

I do not know him well enough to know what he "genuinely" wants to do.

What I can do is react to what he does and what he actually says he wants to do. I remember almost no dialogue from him this cycle reference the "swamp." Like any new administration he can and should choose political appointees who will support his political agenda. But, there really isn't much of anything that he can do about members of the senate and house which his blindly loyal followers consider RINOs or swamp denizens. After all, 38 republican members of the house voted against his preferred budget deal just a couple of weeks ago. I think he, if not his constituents, realizes that everyone of those supposedly despised RINOs has their own district or state constituency that supports them. I suspect, after this recent budget reminder, he realizes that he can only get done those things for which he has the votes - starting with his own caucus.

He already seems to be working very hard to limit the power of the Freedom Caucus - a group that has been nothing but disruptive to the party's cohesion for the last several years. I think that is smart. He seems to understand that Mike Johnson is a consensus builder who delivers votes. He has come out strongly supportive of him. What is a shame is that Trump has to waste his limited political capital fighting the radical wing of his own party while the democrats work hard to solidify their opposition.

He has roughly 100 days to get anything meaningfully initiated on major issues like immigration. After that, both parties will treat him as a lame duck with respect to new initiatives as they look toward 2028. Attempting to run off representatives or senators of his own party will not be one of those things.

DOGE, getting rid of lots of regulations, and appointing people to drastically reform some of the problem institutions all look like draining the swamp to me.

I think like most things he’s done, Trump will surprise and be difficult to ‘lame duck’ too quickly.

 

[CJW]

What does bigger dude half his age have to do with anything? you would prefer your local cops be old, frail, and incapable of defending themselves or the general public? clearly the smaller, older guy didn't have a problem violating the law in the presence of a larger, younger, uniformed police officer.. who told him several times the place to argue was court, not the side of the road.. and who also told him if he refused to sign and comply, the alternative was to go to jail..

either the guy committed an offense or he didn't.. either the officer followed his agency use of force continuum, or he didn't.. clearly the DA, the FOP, and others agreed.. the guy committed an offense, and the officer followed his continuum.. (and used a trained technique to do it)...

if you think that's attempted murder, you clearly haven't ever bothered to read the blacks law dictionary definition of murder or your states statute on murder.. you're just another guy making an assessment based on emotion/opinion rather than facts (exactly what the media and politicians love for you to do.. watch a video.. have no expertise in the field.. and then just let your emotions run wild.. regardless of the facts)...

Its also not aggravated assault (once again, read the OK state statute...)... opinions don't matter here.. the law does... while the action does meet several of the components of the law, the key missing link is INTENT... unless you can prove the officer INTENDED on those injuries.. its not Ag Asslt... Since he acted in accordance with the force continuum and used a technique he was trained to use (that happened to go awry when it was applied).. its going to be almost impossible to prove intent unless he outright admits to it or says something condemning (on video captured saying "I'm going to break your bones", etc)...

Once again I'll point to George Floyd...

Certainly looked really bad on the surface...

No one seemed to give a shit that the technique used to subdue Floyd was actually taught at the police academy and was approved by the police agency for use... all the media told you was a knee to the neck was "excessive force"... and suddenly the arresting officer was a "murderer"...

your assertion is equally ridiculous..

Does the police report assert that the reason the officer performed a take down (notice I have used that phrase a few times already) that he was shusshed by the perpetrator? or are you just assuming that is the cause.. what I see and hear is an officer give direction, and the perpetrator passively resist.. most police agencies allow empty handed control tactics and techniques to overcome passive resistance.. which includes a number of different takedown techniques..

and yes.. there is a "fall" that happens when a takedown is executed..

the question is.. was the head bouncing off the concrete intentional (id guess not)? or did it simply occur as a result of the takedown being applied (which potentially resulted from the perpetrators' either active or passive resistance)...

the person making the statement was the president of the FOP, not the officers superior.... and his statement is actually correct... listen to what he SAID, not what you want to HEAR..

For what its worth, based on the LIMITED information provided in body cam footage, the security cam footage, and what was told in a news story... I'd have likely handled the situation EXACTLY the same way..

I might have used a different technique (I generally preferred a lateral vascular neck restraint whenever I could apply one... or I'd strike the common peroneal nerve with my knee (in High School we called it "dead legging" someone) to put someone in control... I very rarely used sweeps... because where I worked the last thing I wanted to do was go to the ground (there were always additional bad guys floating around).. and in a sweep situation its pretty easy to end up on the ground with your perp...

But, yes.. I would have taken him down... and likely taken him down very hard... Im not going to sit on the side of the road and argue all day.. or continue to expose myself to potential harm (yes an old guy can hurt you).. I would have also taken down a woman.. a juvenile.. or anyone else that passively resists, in accordance with the departments policies, agency training, and the law (none of which this guy violated, whether any of us like it or not)..

No I didn't say it was because he just shushed him. I said in my previous post that he tapped the cops arm. READ and comprehend what I wrote, not just what YOU want to HEAR.

What I actually saw was a little elderly man get slammed for practically nothing.

So you would have "dead legged", grabbed the neck, taken him down very hard, or done exactly the same thing to the small, frail 70 yr old man. That's pretty concerning to me. Especially with a 70 year old parent out on the road.

You tell me that WE don't know the entire story yet you still say you would have done the same thing.

Not exactly sure why you keep bringing up Floyd. Most level headed people actually didn't see much of anything wrong with an overly emotional, obviously resisting, 6'4" 220+lb guy being held down by a few cops.

 

[mdwest]

I said based on the limited information I would have done the same thing…

I also have a 78 year old parent on the road…

I’m guessing neither your parent or mine is going to resist lawful orders given by a police officer…

I’m further guessing the woman in the video is the man’s daughter or some other younger relative…

I’m going to even further guess if you or I were present we wouldn’t allow our 70’s parent yo to resist, nor would we participate (she is attempting to argue also)… we’d try to get things resolved and encourage the elderly parent in the same way the officer did… argue in court… not on the side of the road…

At the end of the day the easiest solution to all of this was for the guy to comply with lawful orders…

For some reason the American public thinks it’s ok to tell a cop during the execution of his duties that they won’t comply, and think there will be no consequences for that.. and then we want to hammer the cop when they do what they were trained to do, when they were trained to do it…

It’s no surprise we see BS like BLM and Defund the Police get traction…

And no further surprise that it’s getting harder and harder to recruit people into the field…

 

[wesheltonj]

What does bigger dude half his age have to do with anything? you would prefer your local cops be old, frail, and incapable of defending themselves or the general public? clearly the smaller, older guy didn't have a problem violating the law in the presence of a larger, younger, uniformed police officer.. who told him several times the place to argue was court, not the side of the road.. and who also told him if he refused to sign and comply, the alternative was to go to jail..

either the guy committed an offense or he didn't.. either the officer followed his agency use of force continuum, or he didn't.. clearly the DA, the FOP, and others agreed.. the guy committed an offense, and the officer followed his continuum.. (and used a trained technique to do it)...

if you think that's attempted murder, you clearly haven't ever bothered to read the blacks law dictionary definition of murder or your states statute on murder.. you're just another guy making an assessment based on emotion/opinion rather than facts (exactly what the media and politicians love for you to do.. watch a video.. have no expertise in the field.. and then just let your emotions run wild.. regardless of the facts)...

Its also not aggravated assault (once again, read the OK state statute...)... opinions don't matter here.. the law does... while the action does meet several of the components of the law, the key missing link is INTENT... unless you can prove the officer INTENDED on those injuries.. its not Ag Asslt... Since he acted in accordance with the force continuum and used a technique he was trained to use (that happened to go awry when it was applied).. its going to be almost impossible to prove intent unless he outright admits to it or says something condemning (on video captured saying "I'm going to break your bones", etc)...

Once again I'll point to George Floyd...

Certainly looked really bad on the surface...

No one seemed to give a shit that the technique used to subdue Floyd was actually taught at the police academy and was approved by the police agency for use... all the media told you was a knee to the neck was "excessive force"... and suddenly the arresting officer was a "murderer"...

your assertion is equally ridiculous..

Does the police report assert that the reason the officer performed a take down (notice I have used that phrase a few times already) that he was shusshed by the perpetrator? or are you just assuming that is the cause.. what I see and hear is an officer give direction, and the perpetrator passively resist.. most police agencies allow empty handed control tactics and techniques to overcome passive resistance.. which includes a number of different takedown techniques..

and yes.. there is a "fall" that happens when a takedown is executed..

the question is.. was the head bouncing off the concrete intentional (id guess not)? or did it simply occur as a result of the takedown being applied (which potentially resulted from the perpetrators' either active or passive resistance)...

the person making the statement was the president of the FOP, not the officers superior.... and his statement is actually correct... listen to what he SAID, not what you want to HEAR..

For what its worth, based on the LIMITED information provided in body cam footage, the security cam footage, and what was told in a news story... I'd have likely handled the situation EXACTLY the same way..

I might have used a different technique (I generally preferred a lateral vascular neck restraint whenever I could apply one... or I'd strike the common peroneal nerve with my knee (in High School we called it "dead legging" someone) to put someone in control... I very rarely used sweeps... because where I worked the last thing I wanted to do was go to the ground (there were always additional bad guys floating around).. and in a sweep situation its pretty easy to end up on the ground with your perp...

But, yes.. I would have taken him down... and likely taken him down very hard... Im not going to sit on the side of the road and argue all day.. or continue to expose myself to potential harm (yes an old guy can hurt you).. I would have also taken down a woman.. a juvenile.. or anyone else that passively resists, in accordance with the departments policies, agency training, and the law (none of which this guy violated according to the DA's office who dropped the charges), whether any of us like it or not)..

I don't know the OK statutes and not interested in knowing, it's enought just to keep up with Texas. But it's not Ag Assult. As far as the 1983 claim and excessive force that's a jury question, once past Summary Judgment and the battle of the experts. One that I think a jury would find in the affirmative.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

Oklahoma AG dismisses assault charge against officer who slammed 71-year-old man to the ground

Oklahoma's Republican attorney general is dismissing a felony assault charge against a police officer who slammed a 71-year-old man to the ground, breaking his neck.

apnews.com