Politics

[Neophyte]

No argument here...

I can assure you that government bloat, and gross mismanagement is alive and well in local government entitles just as it is in D.C. with few exceptions... It was my experience that republican led states, counties, and cities were much better managed than their democrat run counterparts (big surprise there...LOL)... Still a lot of waste and repetition across the board, but less...

During a typical CBA negotiation, there would usually be 3 of us sitting across the table from at least a dozen city level officials with 75-100% being unelected bureaucrats. Each council member has at least 1 assistant, and city managers would often have several deputy city managers under them, all with at least 1 assistant... Then, there would be 1 or 2 attorneys and their assistants... A dozen or more people were doing the job that could easily be accomplished by 3 or 4 individuals, and this is pretty much how they staff and spend at the administrative level all the way down the line...

The laughable irony is that they would sit across that table and be lecturing us about cost, budgetary discretion, and priorities... The negotiations in most cases were actually a slam dunk because their accounting people obviously had no clue how to calculate and manage revenue, whereas our actuary people where spot on with the numbers which even their CPA's would eventually concede...

It’s this bloat that a lot of us want to get rid of.
Starting with the incompetent federal government. I’ve yet to see a problem made better by federal intrusion.

 

[BSO Dave]

And sadly, in large part due to the moderators, but Trump provided the ammunition, Vance had to spend half the night trying to explain something Trump said.

In very large part due to the moderators who were, once again, biased and obnoxious... 3 to 1 again, and Vance handled it like a seasoned pro...

Vance, however, put on a master class of how to graciously, articulately maneuver around their bullshit... Vance won this debate on two fronts ... He achieved his main goal of destroying the caricature of him that is being portrayed by the MSM, which is a mean, unlikeable, and unsympathetic guy... He also won on delivering the better hopeful message while still reminding the American people who was in charge and therefore responsible for the shitshow of the last 3.7 years...

Many pundits are saying this may be the first time in VP debate history that a VP debate actually moves the needle with voters... Hell, even some said they got the impression that by the end of the debate, Vance even convinced Walz to vote the Trump/Vance ticket...

 

[deewayne2003]

We never got close to killing most of the taliban... which is why as soon as the window of opportunity opened for them to regain control of the country, the taliban is who retook the government..

I believe you can indeed nation build with people culturally stuck centuries behind... but that takes letting the professionals do their jobs and the politicians sitting down, shutting up, and allowing that to happen.. which, by the way, includes the State Department (who in my opinion is marginal at maintaining state to state relationships.. but has incredibly limited capacity, much less understanding of nation building.. they actually really suck at it...)...

As far back as 2004 I said ipods and playboy magazines did more to bring Afghanistan back into the 19th century than the US Government did (after just a couple of years of US occupation and US forces and contractors bringing the western world with them)...

And.. for what its worth.. the good ole USA played a HUGE role in reverting Afghanistan to the stone age.. At one time they were actually a fairly "modern" nation...

If the bureaucrats had stayed out of the way, we might have gotten them back to the 1970's during the recent war (where they once were, and were pretty damn good at.. before WE designed, funded, and backed the Taliban for the purpose of running off the Soviets in the 1980's)..

This was Afghanistan in the mid 1970's... Doesnt look that different than much of Europe or the US to me...

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I loved the movie "Charlie Wilson's War"(2007)

“These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world…and then we fucked up the endgame.” - Charlie Wilson on the U.S. abandoning Afghanistan post-Soviet occupation in 1989

 

[Brent in Az]

In very large part due to the moderators who were, once again, biased and obnoxious... 3 to 1 again, and Vance handled it like a seasoned pro...

Vance, however, put on a master class of how to graciously, articulately maneuver around their bullshit... Vance won this debate on two fronts ... He achieved his main goal of destroying the caricature of him that is being portrayed by the MSM, which is a mean, unlikeable, and unsympathetic guy... He also won on delivering the better hopeful message while still reminding the American people who was in charge and therefore responsible for the shitshow of the last 3.7 years...

Many pundits are saying this may be the first time in VP debate history that a VP debate actually moves the needle with voters... Hell, even some said they got the impression that by the end of the debate, Vance even convinced Walz to vote the Trump/Vance ticket...

The moderators tried to bait Vance multiple times with the question of would he separate illegal immigrant families that have children born in the USA?
Vance masterfully sidestepped the question.

 

[Brent in Az]

Former Republican Arizona Senator Jeff Flake is backing Harris. Flake has always been a sellout, and a Trump hater.
When McCain died, Flake saw the writing on the wall and scurrued off with his tail between his legs

 

[Datchew]

GOP was in control when we invaded Iraq. A war that should never have happened and it’s ramifications we are still feeling today.

Wasn't that the same GOP that you defend when people call them RINO's and you then so condescendingly criticize MAGA and their "ilk?"

 

[Red Leg]

In very large part due to the moderators who were, once again, biased and obnoxious... 3 to 1 again, and Vance handled it like a seasoned pro...

Vance, however, put on a master class of how to graciously, articulately maneuver around their bullshit... Vance won this debate on two fronts ... He achieved his main goal of destroying the caricature of him that is being portrayed by the MSM, which is a mean, unlikeable, and unsympathetic guy... He also won on delivering the better hopeful message while still reminding the American people who was in charge and therefore responsible for the shitshow of the last 3.7 years...

Many pundits are saying this may be the first time in VP debate history that a VP debate actually moves the needle with voters... Hell, even some said they got the impression that by the end of the debate, Vance even convinced Walz to vote the Trump/Vance ticket...

I think Vance did a terrific job handling the moderators and being gently dismissive of an opponent who was clearly out of his depth. He has cemented himself as the lead contender for the nomination in 28 regardless of the outcome next month.

Unfortunately, he also had to spend too much time doing as we would say in the Army "what the general meant to say" cleanup for Trump. Whether climate change, January 6th, etc, Trump's words were an issue he had to overcome. Fortunately, he had a couple topics like abortion which for the first time in my experience a republican handled with ease, and he deflected the school shooting issue by politely baiting Walz who swallowed it whole.

I suspect, I am not the only republican this morning that wishes Vance was at the top of the ticket.

 

[Neophyte]

Flake is an appropriate name.

I’m not a traditional Republican and never have been. I’m a far right conservative that makes the republicans look like the tax and spend rectal orifices they are and accuse the democrats/communist of being.

To me Barry Goldwater was a liberal.

 

[Wheels]

I think Vance did a terrific job handling the moderators and being gently dismissive of an opponent who was clearly out of his depth. He has cemented himself as the lead contender for the nomination in 28 regardless of the outcome next month.

I agree with your thoughts here.

The average American probably didn't know much about either Vance or Walz prior to the debate. Vance's debate performance reminded me of Obama at the 2004 DNC Convention. You may not agree with him but you can see him using the springboard for bigger things.

 

[mdwest]

I suspect, I am not the only republican this morning that wishes Vance was at the top of the ticket.

Were Vance on the top of the ticket, I think November 2024 would likely look a whole lot like November 1980... there really wouldnt be much of a race, no matter who the D's put against him.. Biden, Harris, or Walz...

Im not even a huge fan of Vance (he's growing on me.. but I've still got some distance to go before I would call myself a real supporter)... but compared to all other options on both sides of the aisle.. I think he is a no brainer.. and unless Harris is just outright successful in every measurable way in the event she takes the office in a few months... he is definitely the front runner in 2028 and wouldnt have much problem beating her in the next cycle..

 

[Neophyte]

Were Vance on the top of the ticket, I think November 2024 would likely look a whole lot like November 1980... there really wouldnt be much of a race, no matter who the D's put against him.. Biden, Harris, or Walz...

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Im not even a huge fan of Vance (he's growing on me.. but I've still got some distance to go before I would call myself a real supporter)... but compared to all other options on both sides of the aisle.. I think he is a no brainer.. and unless Harris is just outright successful in every measurable way in the event she takes the office in a few months... he is definitely the front runner in 2028 and wouldnt have much problem beating her in the next cycle..

Do you think there will be a country to have an election in 2028 if Harris gets elected?

 

[Hunt anything]

Do you think there will be a country to have an election in 2028 if Harris gets elected?

I don’t think it will be recognizable unless the GOP can take control of the House and Senate.

 

[wesheltonj]

I think both did what they need to do. Vance certainly out preformed Walz as he should have. Vance did have to do more clean up then necessary for Trump, as Trump was unprepared for his debate. But I thought he left too many easy shots against Walz. The biggest example was the failure to explain the border bill. All he had to do on that is state how many illegal/unlawful entries are required before it takes effect.

And the China lie was an easy call. There was no one in China except crazies like me. I was in China starting July 27, 1989. I counted about 5 white folks there and only in Beijing no where else, me being one of them, plus some embassy staff. And Hong Kong was not part of China in 1989.

 

[Tanks]

Looks like the needle didn’t move much though among likely voters.

Dead even: POLITICO snap poll shows stark division on debate — POLITICO

The results reflect the country’s hyper-polarized politics.

apple.news

Though this is troubling:

But Walz had a commanding advantage with independents, 58 percent of whom sided with the Minnesota governor while 42 percent gave Vance the edge.


Walz’s strongest ratings came from younger people, particularly those ages 25-34, those with college degrees, and Black and Latino respondents — all key components of the Democratic coalition that powered President Joe Biden’s victory over Donald Trump in 2020.

 

[Tanks]

Were Vance on the top of the ticket, I think November 2024 would likely look a whole lot like November 1980... there really wouldnt be much of a race, no matter who the D's put against him.. Biden, Harris, or Walz...

I think a large portion of the electorate would vote for a glass of water with either a “D” or an “R” on it regardless of who is running against it. That’s why we elect people like AOC and MTG in “safe” districts.

Though, I think anyone but Trump on the GOP side would have won very comfortably by carrying all the swing States

 

[BSO Dave]

Looks like the needle didn’t move much though among likely voters.

Dead even: POLITICO snap poll shows stark division on debate — POLITICO

The results reflect the country’s hyper-polarized politics.

apple.news

Though this is troubling:

A couple of very significant things to consider when looking at these types of "snap polls" which are traditionally propaganda... Especially from a source like Politico which leans heavily toward the left....

902 participants are a terribly small sampling to be of any real significance or accuracy... Also, of the 902, there is no clear indication of the demographics of the participants, nor the number of dems, republicans, or so-called independents sampled. Too many of these media sourced polls are stacked left, and sometimes right and you would never know it unless you read the fine print... Interestingly, all of the recent polls that show the Hyena leading Trump are top heavy with dem voters and particularly with young female, single democrat women... I suspect this snap poll from Politico is no different...

Historically, it takes at least a week for the needle to move post-debate, so I would not lend much credibility to anything that comes out before then... As a side note, pay attention to the Atlas poll which has demonstrated to be one of the most fair, unbiased, and evenly sourced when it comes to polling...

 

[Neophyte]

I think a large portion of the electorate would vote for a glass of water with either a “D” or an “R” on it regardless of who is running against it. That’s why we elect people like AOC and MTG in “safe” districts.

Though, I think anyone but Trump on the GOP side would have won very comfortably by carrying all the swing States

I think if the “ Anyone but the bad orange man” republicans had voted for “ the bad orange man” we wouldn’t be in the mess we are today.

Heck, it’s still going on with some posters here. “ Bad orange man makes mean tweets so I can’t vote for him.” I’ll take mean tweets and cheap gas and groceries anytime.

 

[DillonG]

Walz performed far better than I expected. He might just be the 2028 candidate of choice for Dems.

 

[Tanks]

I think if the “ Anyone but the bad orange man” republicans had voted for “ the bad orange man” we wouldn’t be in the mess we are today.

Heck, it’s still going on with some posters here. “ Bad orange man makes mean tweets so I can’t vote for him.” I’ll take mean tweets and cheap gas and groceries anytime.

There are not enough Republicans or even Democrats to win a Nationwide election even if all of them voted for their candidate. That's why independents determine the election.

Heck, if what you said was true, we would have McCain or Romney win their elections.

 

[Hunt anything]

Walz performed far better than I expected. He might just be the 2028 candidate of choice for Dems.

Maybe but with him being in the spotlight now I feel he’ll do something stupid on the scale of tampons in boys bathrooms, snitch lines for people to rat on their neighbors if they went outside during Covid and allowing the rioters to gut and burn cities and towns during the George Floyd riots.