Politics

[Doug3006]

I am a patient person - my friends and family always comment on it. But I just don't see waiting that long to be able to drive again. Just a few minutes at the gas pump is what I expect and want. And, bluntly, it's going to be a long time (IMHO) before charging stations and their vehicles make it to places like rural Alaska.

It takes me about 5 minutes to visit the restroom and buy a giant Dr. Pepper and a beef stick. That’s the length of time I will give a charging device to charge up from 5% to full. And I want to go 500 miles pulling a stock trailer before I need to recharge. Oh, and a battery needs to have a 10 year/100k useful life. And cost <5k to replace. Until then, they can keep

 

[David AK 53]

It takes me about 5 minutes to visit the restroom and buy a giant Dr. Pepper and a beef stick. That’s the length of time I will give a charging device to charge up from 5% to full. And I want to go 500 miles pulling a stock trailer before I need to recharge. Oh, and a battery needs to have a 10 year/100k useful life. And cost QUOTE]

Very informative report from IEEE on the challenges of meeting goals for EVs replacing ICE vehicles .

The EV Transition Explained

The challenges posed by the transition from ICE vehicles to EVs at scale are significantly larger in scope and more complex than the policy makers appreciate. The systems engineering task alone is enormous, with countless interdependencies that are outside policy makers' control.

spectrum.ieee.org

 

[CoElkHunter]

Hundreds of thousands more and faster chargers and all will be well - assuming you aren't traveling out back of Marathon, TX or perhaps anywhere around the Four Corners, or, or, or .... or perhaps towing or carrying anything anywhere.

Yes, and what entity(s) will be responsible for "servicing" all of the thousands of chargers? I have been reading where even now, many public chargers are electronically broken, vandalized or have had wires stolen from them for the copper.

 

[WAB]

Yes, and what entity(s) will be responsible for "servicing" all of the thousands of chargers? I have been reading where even now, many public chargers are electronically broken, vandalized or have had wires stolen from them for the copper.

Yep, it’s a total goat rope.

 

[Red Leg]

Will be interesting to see how this works out with Ford. They have pretty much gone all in on the Lightning and the auto line. It looks like the strategy was to coast on the government subsidies until demand was established, and then gradually bring up the MSRP into profitability. They are set to lose $3 billion on their EV work this year. But if the profitability gets pushed further out due to low demand, supportability costs, subsidy loss to changes in administration, or even an insurance debacle (EV's apparently are spontaneously combusting), then the CEO and business plan could be in real trouble.

Tesla seems the only truly profitable entry thus far. However, Musk had the sense and deployable capital to put in a large servicing and charging infrastructure at the same time he sold his cars. It still waits to be seen how profitable he can be if and when government supplements, currently roughly 2.4 billion, dry up.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Yep, it’s a total goat rope.

I read an article a week or so ago where this gentleman from Canada bought a Ford EV pick up for $115K. He took his family on vacation to North or South Carolina or thereabouts, and the disaster along the way with the charging issues was unbelievable. He ended up renting a vehicle to complete his vacation.

 

[Pheroze]

When gas cars where first developed they had to develop the infrastructure of service stations we now take for granted. Surely it's the same issue. The difference seems to be that ICE vehicles were developed by an interested private sector in response to market demand. The electric vehicles are a government mandated alternative to existing technology.

The limit for me is that I need a technology that allows me to get lost on a forest road in -20°C weather and fill up from a portable device (i.e. fuel cannister of some form). Until then I will be driving a diesel truck. I really don't care about how the vehicle works. In fact, a quiet, clean alternative sounds pretty good. Too bad it doesn't exist.

 

[Red Leg]

When gas cars where first developed they had to develop the infrastructure of service stations we now take for granted. Surely it's the same issue. The difference seems to be that ICE vehicles were developed by an interested private sector in response to market demand. The electric vehicles are a government mandated alternative to existing technology.

The limit for me is that I need a technology that allows me to get lost on a forest road in -20°C weather and fill up from a portable device (i.e. fuel cannister of some form). Until then I will be driving a diesel truck. I really don't care about how the vehicle works. In fact, a quiet, clean alternative sounds pretty good. Too bad it doesn't exist.

As Florida found out during its most recent hurricane evacuation it is hard to locate a five gallon can of electrons. I-95 was littered with Teslas.

 

[Newboomer]

When gas cars where first developed they had to develop the infrastructure of service stations we now take for granted. Surely it's the same issue. The difference seems to be that ICE vehicles were developed by an interested private sector in response to market demand. The electric vehicles are a government mandated alternative to existing technology.

The limit for me is that I need a technology that allows me to get lost on a forest road in -20°C weather and fill up from a portable device (i.e. fuel cannister of some form). Until then I will be driving a diesel truck. I really don't care about how the vehicle works. In fact, a quiet, clean alternative sounds pretty good. Too bad it doesn't exist.

Yep. Sparkymobiles are not practical and probably won't be for decades, if ever. I'm seeing some of the semis on the road around here, or should I say, beside the road being hooked up to a wrecker.

 

[WAB]

Will be interesting to see how this works out with Ford. They have pretty much gone all in on the Lightning and the auto line. It looks like the strategy was to coast on the government subsidies until demand was established, and then gradually bring up the MSRP into profitability. They are set to lose $3 billion on their EV work this year. But if the profitability gets pushed further out due to low demand, supportability costs, subsidy loss to changes in administration, or even an insurance debacle (EV's apparently are spontaneously combusting), then the CEO and business plan could be in real trouble.

Tesla seems the only truly profitable entry thus far. However, Musk had the sense and deployable capital to put in a large servicing and charging infrastructure at the same time he sold his cars. It still waits to be seen how profitable he can be if and when government supplements, currently roughly 2.4 billion, dry up.

I don’t think that the basic energy balance works. Our spinning reserve for power production is hydrocarbon. Hydrocarbon fired plants with stack emissions. The last numbers I saw, admittedly a number of years ago, was about 65% on grid efficiency. Energy and raw material consumption is much higher for an EV than a conventional vehicle. I have yet to see a wholistic analysis that indicates any environmental benefit to this lunacy. I seriously think that some of these folks believe that power just magically shows up in their homes with no environmental impact, ditto for batteries.

 

[IdaRam]

When gas cars where first developed they had to develop the infrastructure of service stations we now take for granted. Surely it's the same issue.

Well, kinda…
The jerry can allowed for quite an extended range on early IC engines. And allowed for a portable emergency back up. A tank of gas and 2 jerry cans would get ya there, almost anywhere. A 42 gallon tank and 2 jerry cans on my Tundra gives quite a bit of off-road range.
I don’t see a “jerry battery” as being in the cards any time soon.
But your point is valid regarding time to develop infrastructure.

 

[Doubleplay]

All valid arguments about the EV with the current technology.
However it won't mean anything when you look back 20 years from now.
Similar things had been brought up about the combustible engines in the early days.
Ev's are the future and they're here to stay and take over.

 

[Ray B]

Ev's are the future and they're here to stay and take over.

NOT!!

 

[VertigoBE]

All valid arguments about the EV with the current technology.
However it won't mean anything when you look back 20 years from now.
Similar things had been brought up about the combustible engines in the early days.
Ev's are the future and they're here to stay and take over.

They are definitely here to stay, as they make a very good and even better alternative than thermal vehicles in some situations. As a second car, to do the school run. To go into city centres , etc. All make a lot of sense.

But as humanity has figured out already a few times (sometimes harshly) , there is no getting around basic physics, chemistry, biology and economics. Ideological delusions and government interference in the form of subsidies, red tape and taxes can only push the seesaw for so long out of the equilibrium of reality. Unless there is some mayor revolutionary technology upheaval in the energy storage and/or electricity production departments, thermal engines are here to stay for quite a long time still.

 

[Red Leg]

Another couple of these clips that speak volumes. Chernihiv is cultural city of a quarter of a million people in Northern Ukraine. It has no military significance and is a long way from the current fighting. It is not even on any of the supply routs supporting the Ukrainian Army. This morning, on market day guaranteeing maximum civilian presence, the Russians struck the city center with an Iskander tactical missile with a thousand pound conventional warhead.

This is pure savagery designed solely to try and terrorize the civilian population. Yet we continue to refuse to provide Ukraine with ATACMS (uses the HIMARS launcher) because it might be seen as provocative by Putin.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/15ve6ke

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/15vbwcr

 

[BSO Dave]

As Florida found out during its most recent hurricane evacuation it is hard to locate a five gallon can of electrons. I-95 was littered with Teslas.

True story....

Although many of the ones that flooded spontaneously caught fire and eliminated themselves from being a further burden.

 

[Red Leg]

True story....

Although many of the ones that flooded spontaneously caught fire and eliminated themselves from being a further burden.

I had heard that but wasn't sure enough to include it.

I was in Lake Charles, LA immediately after hurricane Laura to help rescue and move my mother from her demolished assisted living facility. The city was devastated and all of Southwest Louisiana went without power for weeks. An EV in such an environment would be nothing but a yard ornament.

Gas stations were either destroyed or also without power, so families were driving to Beaumont, TX with jerry cans to keep generators going. This too would have been a mission that would be impossible for EV's. And how about all the FEMA, fire fighting, rescue, and power vehicles that needed to work throughout the area. I assume the green commandos would have felt virtuous while people suffered or died.

 

[503]

They don't care about pollution, or carbon or whatever. It's all about control. Having a vehicle means freedom and they.dont like that.

They want electric cars so we are at their mercy in terms of the power grid, when/ where we can charge them and how far we can travel. All of that stuff cab be hacked and/or remotely controlled. Its pretty scary.

And you know all the politicians who are better than us will still be flying around on their private jets and have gas vehicle while they bitch about global warming .

Cheers

503

 

[PARA45]

I don’t believe that when the combustion engines were invented the government told their citizens to give up their wagons, horses and drive a gas engine vehicle. I’m ok w the EVs, but don’t tell me that by 20xx I better be driving one. If I have to pay for something out my own pocket, I will drive whatever I want. If the Gov wants me to drive an EV, well they better park one for free on my drive way. Meanwhile I’ll continue to drive my Chevy 2500.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

What do electric & gas cars have in common?

They're both powered by fossil fuels.