Politics

[Foxi]

Those nations you mentioned are in NATO and the United States is a signatory the the NATO treaty. No, the U.S. is technically not "forced" to do anything but are you saying if the United States congress ratifies and the President sigins a treaty that it's optional to disregard its mandates?

For reference, a list of current NATO nations:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_NATO

yet it is a US decision when American soldiers are stationed in the Balitkum,or elsewhere.
You don't think Stoltenberg (Nato General Secretary )has decided or ever decided anything against the will of the American government.
In the Nato only America has the key for desicions,the others may go along (or stay at home).
Foxi

 

[Red Leg]

Those nations you mentioned are in NATO and the United States is a signatory the the NATO treaty. No, the U.S. is technically not "forced" to do anything but are you saying if the United States congress ratifies and the President sigins a treaty that it's optional to disregard its mandates?

For reference, a list of current NATO nations:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_NATO

I assure you Foxi knows the NATO member countries.

A little history lesson guys - NATO exists solely and only because it was in our national interests to create it (with strong British support). It was in our national interests to see that a Western Europe prostrate from WWII did not succumb to the Soviet supported socialist revolutions/takeovers which were playing out across Eastern Europe. And yes, Russia has tried to expand its sphere of influence westward since the time of Peter the Great. We have continued to be the leading power in NATO since the war because it has continued to be in our absolute national interest to do so. There is nothing altruistic in that position. Regrettably, our President, who is correct on a lot of economic issues, seems to know no more history than do some of the neo-isolationist "conservatives" he seems to be listening to with regard to foreign policy.

The truth of the matter is that we are an economic imperialist power. Our economic boundaries extend across Eastern Europe - where we were delighted to leverage countries like Poland out of the Russian sphere of influence (and into NATO); across the Middle East - where our interests in petroleum resources remains large (though fortunately shrinking); across Asia - where Chinese economic imperialism is causing us to reach new accommodations with countries like Vietnam (some here would no doubt be surprised to learn we have a "permanent" defense presence in what was North Vietnam); and even Africa which could become a roiling cesspool at any moment. We defend that Imperial frontier there rather than at the gates Rome. It is in our clear national interests to do so. We provide very, very limited foreign aid (another myth of the isolationists) primarily to support market stability. Remember that we are an economic imperial power, and our interests are best served by stable predictive markets in which international commerce can flourish.

It is impossible for us to retreat behind our physical borders and remain a first world economy. Simple fact. NATO has been and continues to play a key role in helping maintain the stability of that world economy. The now reconstructed nations of Western Europe (less France) remain part of the organization because it is their national interests to do so. One of those interests is indeed shared defense costs.

 

[Shootist43]

Well said Red Leg. While I like a lot of what he is trying to do most of the time, Trump sometimes rattles the bushes when he should just play another round of golf, or 'twitters" when instead he should be reading a good book. The eight years prior to the Trump Presidency put the U.S. on a collision course with itself and the rest of the world as well. If the damage that was done during the Obama Administration cannot be undone we as a nation are doomed.

 

[Red Leg]

Well said Red Leg. While I like a lot of what he is trying to do most of the time, Trump sometimes rattles the bushes when he should just play another round of golf, or 'twitters" when instead he should be reading a good book. The eight years prior to the Trump Presidency put the U.S. on a collision course with itself and the rest of the world as well. If the damage that was done during the Obama Administration cannot be undone we as a nation are doomed.

I agree. Obama's feckless policy, or doctrine if you will, was to support a set global interests, often in conflict with our basic national interests, which frankly played into the hands of a group of extremely rich international socialist utopians of which Soros is simply the most well known. Trump is working very hard to reverse that agenda. As recently as thirty years ago, the intellectual wing of both parties would have supported his exact efforts (ok, he would have had some opposition w/r to tariff policy), but not the remainder. I frankly am at a loss to explain the fourth estate's devotion to this globalism cause. It is also inexplicable that half the country has swallowed such dependency as well. My hope is that the American economic expansion now in full swing in spite of the left's every effort to suppress it, will generate a bit of nationalist reawakening as well.

 

[Hogpatrol]

yet it is a US decision when American soldiers are stationed in the Balitkum,or elsewhere.
You don't think Stoltenberg (Nato General Secretary )has decided or ever decided anything against the will of the American government.
In the Nato only America has the key for desicions,the others may go along (or stay at home).
Foxi

Regardless of our interests, I can assure you if Germany or other nations where we have a military presence wanted the U.S. out, we'd oblige. The Philippines is one example.

 

[Foxi]

Regardless of our interests, I can assure you if Germany or other nations where we have a military presence wanted the U.S. out, we'd oblige. The Philippines is one example.

Hogpatrol,
you're wrong.
Nobody wants you loose.
Exept Turkey at the moment.
But a course in communicating with friends wouldn't hurt him.
(and a new hairdresser
Foxi

 

[Wheels]

A little history lesson guys - NATO exists solely and only because it was in our national interests to create it (with strong British support). It was in our national interests to see that a Western Europe prostrate from WWII did not succumb to the Soviet supported socialist revolutions/takeovers which were playing out across Eastern Europe. And yes, Russia has tried to expand its sphere of influence westward since the time of Peter the Great. We have continued to be the leading power in NATO since the war because it has continued to be in our absolute national interest to do so. There is nothing altruistic in that position. Regrettably, our President, who is correct on a lot of economic issues, seems to know no more history than do some of the neo-isolationist "conservatives" he seems to be listening to with regard to foreign policy.

I agree with you for the most part.

Trump is pushing back and renegotiating economic treaties that are unfavorable to America. ie: NAFTA is dead, even though the press and most people don't realize it yet. Mexico is renegotiating a bilateral treaty and if Canada wants a bilateral deal with America, it will happen, as long as countries can't bypass American tariffs by shipping through Canada/Mexico.

When it comes to NATO, it seems Trump is pushing back on the economic side of the NATO Treaty, and using the political/military side to force the issue. Is Trump willing to walk away from NATO.....possibly. Is he willing to use the American military as a negotiating tool. Absolutely! If countries get their military spending up to 2%/GDP then Trump will have no issues with NATO. If they don't get spending up to 2%, Trump might just walk away. Bush and Obama worked to get NATO members up to 2% but countries backed them down with empty promises. Trump won't accept that.

The Trump team has been in negotiations with Stoltenberg and his administration since he assumed office. Evidently things weren't moving very fast so Trump made NATO an issue last month by bringing up Germany/Russia/Nord Stream 2. If NATO members don't get serious about raising spending, look for things to escalate by the time the next meeting takes place.

A few months ago I spent some time researching Trump's history. He is certainly willing to negotiate, but I couldn't find an example where he ever bluffed. I doubt he is bluffing with NATO. The political/military side of NATO may be the big looser if the economic side is not funded per the treaty.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Hogpatrol,
you're wrong.
Nobody wants you loose.
Exept Turkey at the moment.
But a course in communicating with friends wouldn't hurt him.
(and a new hairdresser
Foxi

The Philippines told us to get out. We did. If Germany and the others wanted us out, we'd be gone. If you are saying they don't want us out, I agree.

As far as Trump's communications skills, I find it hard to find fault with them. He tells it like it is, light years from the gobbledygook emanating from 99% of those in political power.

At any rate, I find it absolutely fkn hilarious that those criticizing Trump are still slaving away at some nondescript job, working for a paycheck, or waiting for their dividend or pension checks. If they were so smart, and have all the answers, why aren't they in his seat?

 

[tarbe]

Regrettably, our President, who is correct on a lot of economic issues, seems to know no more history than do some of the neo-isolationist "conservatives" he seems to be listening to with regard to foreign policy.

Remember that we are an economic imperial power, and our interests are best served by stable predictive markets in which international commerce can flourish.

Trump has plenty of personal economic interests in the international sphere. I doubt he will sabotage them intentionally.

 

[mdwest]

The Philippines told us to get out.

We only left for a very short while..

https://www.ucanews.com/news/the-us-military-are-back-in-the-philippines/82234

https://www.manilatimes.net/us-military-bases-disguised-as-philippine-bases-are-here-again/394051/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-philippines-usa-defence-idUSKBN15A18Z

 

[sgt_zim]

The economic myth which needs to die a bloody, painful death is the idea that nation states trade with each other. Left to their own devices, individuals will always trade with each other, and always to mutual advantage. The only thing governments can do is make that trading between individuals more difficult, which really means "more costly."

It is the consumer within the country that imposes tariffs who is most injured, as it is he who must ultimately pay the price of the tariff. Open competition always drives prices down over time, and tariffs drive prices up.

For most of the people on this board, my expectation is that tariffs are a nuisance, but rarely raise prices so much on the products we buy that they get beyond our reach. Probably everybody here is easily in the top 10% of income earners, and probably many are in the top 5% or higher. If one isn't in our income bracket, tariffs can make life very painful; and ultimately, tariffs only benefit a small handful of domestic businesses whose executives, owners, and boards are politically connected.

 

[Foxi]

At any rate, I find it absolutely fkn hilarious that those criticizing Trump are still slaving away at some nondescript job, working for a paycheck, or waiting for their dividend or pension checks. If they were so smart, and have all the answers, why aren't they in his seat?

then there's no reason not to finally publish the tax return.
I am in the banking business,great lifestyle and no numbers
makes every beginner here suspicious. His golf courses in Europe are all in the red.
The economic history is full of entrepreneurs who only stayed alive because they are credit-financed.

He is not only your president, he is also the leader of the western free world, and decisions of a US president ,we often feel faster in our small Germany than some Americans in the middle west.

But refusing to honor a soldier like McCain, who got into captivity with broken arms and legs and returned home as a cripple, defamed him a coward before. Sorry, that's impossible.
Foxi

 

[sgt_zim]

@Foxi , whatever McCain did during Vietnam is a separate issue from what he did as a politician.

McCain had a penchant for using ad hominem against the classical liberal wing of the Republican Party. Whatever he learned about gentlemanly conduct at the United States Naval Academy (2 of my sons also graduated from USNA), he completely forgot about as a politician. There is more I would say, but now is not the time.

 

[Foxi]

sgt_zim,
you may have more insight than I do. I don't deny.
But Trump's insult of him as a seriously wounded soldier to be captured, was real.
Where is the solidarity among comrades ?
He, who never heard a bullet whistle says something like that.
Foxi
(sorry for my English)

 

[Brent in Az]

sgt_zim,
you may have more insight than I do. I don't deny.
But Trump's insult of him as a seriously wounded soldier to be captured, was real.
Where is the solidarity among comrades ?
He, who never heard a bullet whistle says something like that.
Foxi
(sorry for my English)

I'm from Arizona. Ask me how I feel about "John McTraitor"

Trump may have insulted McCain, but only after McCain insulted Trump first. McCain was involved in the dubious Steele Dossier. McCain is an establishment swamp rat, and a big part of the problem in Washington D.C.

 

[sgt_zim]

Trump's statement on that issue was out of line.

The rest of the scorn and contempt heaped on McCain was well-earned.

McCain has been involved in a number of scandals over the years, and always managed to weasel his way out of them. We could go all the way back to 1988 (at least) for the Savings & Loan disaster, where he was part of "The Keating 5." He was lucky he didn't go to prison for that.

 

[mdwest]

I think you put way too much value in the "solidarity among comrades" thing, Foxi..

I am a veteran.. and I have spent a significant amount of time in both Iraq and Afghanistan.. I have heard "bullets whistle" as you describe...

While I respect what McCain did while serving in the capacity as a US Navy officer.. I have very little respect for anything he did after that..

Just because McCain served honorably.. does not mean he is (or is not) an honorable man.. I know plenty of military vets I would chose not to associate myself with.. or attend the funeral of.. that proved themselves to be warriors, and left military service with an honorable discharge..

But.. thats another story...




What I find interesting is... some people in this country (and abroad) find it appalling that Donald Trump will not be attending John McCains funeral.. knowing well that these are two men that openly disliked one another and had very little common ground between them...

But those same people think it perfectly acceptable that Barack Obama did not attend the funeral of US Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia....

While Obama and Scalia clearly sat at different ends of the political spectrum... Obama was a lecturer on constitutional law at the University of Chicago and is a self proclaimed "Constitutional Law Professor".. and never had a personal beef with Scalia on anything... Scalia served on the US Supreme Court for 30 years.. and served his country in a variety of positions for 46 years... many would tell you Scalia did more during his career to influence and provide guidance and direction to the USA during his service than McCain, Trump, and Obama combined.... and yet, Obama did not attend his funeral..

How is POTUS Trumps decision to not attend McCains funeral any more or less of an issue than POTUS Obamas decision to not attend Scalias funeral?


Something also that should be noted....

McCain made it pretty clear and public that he did not want Trump to attend.. and while on his death bed was still hurling insults at Trump...

Does that excuse POTUS Trumps comments? No.. clearly not..

But it is something that should obviously be taken into consideration...

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/08/26/john-mccain-trump-funeral-plans-sot-vpx.cnn

https://www.businessinsider.com/john-mccain-funeral-trump-obama-bush-2018-8

 

[sgt_zim]

@Foxi - being in Europe, you probably just aren't aware that there are a lot of Americans who found McCain every bit as contemptible as Hillary and Bill Clinton, and the Obamas, and for many of the same reasons.

 

[Royal27]

Well I'll be danged.... Mexico is going to sign a trade agreement with the United States that will be fair to both sides. Mexico will still do well, while keeping BILLIONS here to help our economy instead of just Mexico's ecomony.


http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018...th-mexico-is-yuge-win-for-both-countries.html

I wonder what we will do with all that money? I guess we could do whatever we wanted, since it's our money. I mean we could even use it to build a wall. Funny, but it would almost be like Mexico paid for it, now wouldn't it?

 

[Brent in Az]

Another day of Trump winning.

Another day of Democrats foaming at the mouth.

MAGA!