Politics

[Wheels]

 

[Wheels]

 

[Hunter4752001]

@Red Leg. If the Russians are striping forces out of Georgia to bolster their units in Ukraine, what are the chances that the Georgians will try to use opportunity to take back the two occupied territories?

 

[CoElkHunter]

My thinking, based on Putin's personality over the years, is that losing is not an option for him. I would expect him to go all in and level the cities, think Hiroshima but chemical not nuclear, if his back is against a wall. Actually, I am kinda surprised that has not happened yet at Kyiv.

Yes, I don't think Putin has anything to lose at this point, which makes him extremely dangerous to the entire world. No matter what happens in Ukraine, the sanctions imposed on Russia will be in place for years and their economy will be in shambles. Putin is worth an estimated $200 BILLION and probably has his wealth squirreled away somewhere, so he doesn't give a rats a** about the Russian economy or it's people. He and many in the leadership roles in Russia, both civilian and military, SHOULD be adjudicated as War Criminals. Either way, he is a pariah on the world stage and the leaders of the free countries of the world know they can't trust anything he ever says or promises again. He is finished as a world leader, so he really has nothing to lose in Ukraine.

 

[Scott CWO]

I think this is good estimate, but it has to be said IT IS: within average for eastern europe. My country included. Considering median 800 usd, I know my uncle, retired commercial navy deck officer, lives in a house (morgage paid off), has a car, pays the bills, with pension of about 400 USd per month. (decent living) But he does not have a rifle, nor he hunts, and he doesnt plan african safari.

List of European countries by average wage - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Wealth distribution in Europe - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

(it would not be politcally correct from me to mention which countries are worse)

Considering the commercial rifle prices (from 1k upwards), safari costs, and our hobby, unfortunately this forum cannot be the measuring stick for the world.

We, the members of this forum, belong to maybe 1% of worlds population who can actually afford a commercial rifle (often more then one), and african safari, even if it is only a plains game safari in south africa, nothing more fancy then that.

I am very aware how lucky we are to live in a country that allows the accumulation of wealth through hard work and luck. It's funny, the harder I work, the luckier I get. I've had a job since I was 13 years old and nobody gave me a thing except for a loving home and opportunity. My point was that Putin and his clan have stolen billions while most of Russian people live in poverty due to a corrupt system of kleptocracy. The difference between $871 per year for millions of people and the billions Putin has stole is rather stark, don't you think?

 

[mark-hunter]

@Scott CWO
I have been to Russia, and to Ukraina, in last years. (have you?) Google search is one thing, but seeing perosnally is another,

Now, in Moscow, (actually last year, when was all quiet on eastern front, and the things were apparently normal), well I was there in the city, and as an indication of standard I have seen 6 lane streets, and the biggest number of Mercedes, audi, bmw's, as well as offorads like Toyota land cruisers - that I have seen in any other place in the World, and I have been to 63 countries of the World. I dont exagurate.
There, German limos, are predominant, while off roads are secondary in appearance. Other part is middle class cars, of western production. But, again average numbers of high class cars is amassing.

I've seen another thing - which reminded me on American cities. This is the social perspective.
The cab service.
For many immigrants, (who actually look for better life in foreign country), yellow cab driving is first job.

Weather it be New York (where my neighbor started as yellow cab driver), or Seattle (in Seattle, when I was there was high percentage of Somalians driving yellow cabs there).
So, in Moscow, is similar.
Asians from far east - non - Russian speaking, drive cabs in Moscow.
the system is: you take application on mobile, request a cab, and Asian gets there, who doesnt speak english, nor russian, he then types your destination to GPS, and takes you there. The bill is on the screen, you pay for service. Language is not a barrier.

Now the question is: Why Somali would go to Seattle to drive a cab? because he estimates he will have better life opportunities in Seattle then what he would have in Somalia.

Why would an Asian from far east, go to Moscow to drive a cab? probably for same reason, and they dont see it as being a ripped of in opportunity, they see it as a chance for a better life.
That is something to think about.

 

[VertigoBE]

@Scott CWO
I have been to Russia, and to Ukraina, in last years. (have you?) Google search is one thing, but seeing perosnally is another,

Now, in Moscow, (actually last year, when was all quiet on eastern front, and the things were apparently normal), well I was there in the city, and as an indication of standard I have seen 6 lane streets, and the biggest number of Mercedes, audi, bmw's, as well as offorads like Toyota land cruisers - that I have seen in any other place in the World, and I have been to 63 countries of the World. I dont exagurate.
There, German limos, are predominant, while off roads are secondary in appearance. Other part is middle class cars, of western production. But, again average numbers of high class cars is amassing.

I've seen another thing - which reminded me on American cities. This is the social perspective.
The cab service.
For many immigrants, (who actually look for better life in foreign country), yellow cab driving is first job.

Weather it be New York, or Seattle (in Seattle, when I was there was high percentage of Somalians driving yellow cabs there).
So, in Moscow, is similar.
Asians from far east - non - Russian speaking, drive cabs in Moscow.
the system is: you take application on mobile, request a cab, and Asian gets there, who doesnt speak english, nor russian, he then types your destination to GPS, and takes you there. The bill is on the screen, you pay for service. Language is not a barrier.

Now the question is: Why Somali would go to Seattle to drive a cab? because he estimates he will have better life opportunities in Seattle then what he would have in Somalia.

Why would an Asian from far east, go to Moscow to drive a cab? probably for same reason, and they dont see it as being a ripped of in opportunity, they see it as a chance for a better life.
That is something to think about.

Agree on Moscow (and St Petersburg) being quite developed even if not to say luxurious. It is like any big city (and Moscow is massive) there is such a concentration of capital that quite a lot of people there are very well off. Rent in certain places can be higher per sq meter than London or Paris.

Just as they say “beware of the man with only one rifle…” also “beware of the man with only a mean or average” using only one statistic can hide way too much information. It is just not pertinent to compare average Russian standards of living/annual pay to Muscovites’.

Edit: I visited both Moscow and St Petersburg as I was dating a Russian girl. (Don’t worry I also dated a Ukrainian one )

 

[Scott CWO]

@Scott CWO
I have been to Russia, and to Ukraina, in last years. (have you?) Google search is one thing, but seeing perosnally is another,

Now, in Moscow, (actually last year, when was all quiet on eastern front, and the things were apparently normal), well I was there in the city, and as an indication of standard I have seen 6 lane streets, and the biggest number of Mercedes, audi, bmw's, as well as offorads like Toyota land cruisers - that I have seen in any other place in the World, and I have been to 63 countries of the World. I dont exagurate.
There, German limos, are predominant, while off roads are secondary in appearance. Other part is middle class cars, of western production. But, again average numbers of high class cars is amassing.

I've seen another thing - which reminded me on American cities. This is the social perspective.
The cab service.
For many immigrants, (who actually look for better life in foreign country), yellow cab driving is first job.

Weather it be New York (where my neighbor started as yellow cab driver), or Seattle (in Seattle, when I was there was high percentage of Somalians driving yellow cabs there).
So, in Moscow, is similar.
Asians from far east - non - Russian speaking, drive cabs in Moscow.
the system is: you take application on mobile, request a cab, and Asian gets there, who doesnt speak english, nor russian, he then types your destination to GPS, and takes you there. The bill is on the screen, you pay for service. Language is not a barrier.

Now the question is: Why Somali would go to Seattle to drive a cab? because he estimates he will have better life opportunities in Seattle then what he would have in Somalia.

Why would an Asian from far east, go to Moscow to drive a cab? probably for same reason, and they dont see it as being a ripped of in opportunity, they see it as a chance for a better life.
That is something to think about.

Well then let's compare median incomes in rural areas. Weld County, CO has no big cities and is mostly agricultural with a median income of $34,305. Or how about Phillips County, CO at $31,635? How about Lawrence County, SD at $27,320? Or Lake County, SD at $28,121? These rural counties in the USA have over twice the median income of Muscovites at $13,110. Can you imagine the difference between USA rural counties and rural areas of Russia? Likely a staggering difference. Meanwhile, Putin steals billions. At least the Biden family has only stolen millions! Lol.

According to the US Census Bureau, the median individual income in NYC is $50,825. Seattle is $49,293. Yes, cities are higher but also have a higher cost of living. Still much higher incomes than Moscow. Keep in mind that most of the oligarchs and their families are likely in Moscow.

As for what kind of car one drives? Who cares? When my brother-in-law was a young man, he and his girlfriend (they later married) lived in an apartment in California with hardly any furniture or nice things and would be considered lower income as a young couple just getting started but guess what? Both drove BMWs, like fools. Cars like BMWs, Audis, etc... mean nothing to me and I am not impressed. Poorer people will sometimes stretch to buy a nice car to try to seem wealthier than they really are but still live poorly. It's all about appearances with some people.

 

[mark-hunter]

@Scott CWO

In some parts you have a point. I've seen in my area, people selling inhereted property just to buy car, later having problem to buy gasoline. But they were showing off in BMW.
And on my side, car is last thing to think about, I prefer spending my time or money in the fields, hunting, or fishing at home, in lazy afternoons cherishing my modest rifle inventory. My personal system of values is that I will rather spend same money on African safari, then on a car.

However some things I still find indicative, when visiting the foreign city.
For example, Attached is the photo from new delhi streets. Its not cherry picking, you can search around. Poverty is ever present there. Its far cry from moscow. But Delhi is not in headlines today, however you can compare.

 

[Pheroze]

I tried to paste the link to the article but I can't seem to. It's on Blaclocks Reporter, an excellent independent publication.

 

[cpr0312]

 

[Sabattiboy]

@Scott CWO

In some parts you have a point. I've seen in my area, people selling inhereted property just to buy car, later having problem to buy gasoline. But they were showing off in BMW.
And on my side, car is last thing to think about, I prefer spending my time or money in the fields, hunting, or fishing at home, in lazy afternoons cherishing my modest rifle inventory. My personal system of values is that I will rather spend same money on African safari, then on a car.

However some things I still find indicative, when visiting the foreign city.
For example, Attached is the photo from new delhi streets. Its not cherry picking, you can search around. Poverty is ever present there. Its far cry from moscow. But Delhi is not in headlines today, however you can compare.

View attachment 457624View attachment 457625

In my younger days I observed guys my age spending their money on clothes and cars etc to impress women and others. I spent my money differently. Some years down the road I was paying for private school for the kids because the public school system was failing to educate. A home mortgage, life insurance etc all the stuff considered necessary. I wondered how others with similar income had nicer cars and lifestyle. One day it occurred to me. They had no life insurance, their kids got whatever they got from the school system owed more years on their house payments and cars. In other words they lived flashy indebted life. One guy still owed for cars he owned years earlier. If they died someone else paid, which is common in our time. I realized I just spent the same money on different things. In the end they probably enjoyed their life more then I did.
As a shooting friend says, we don't spend our money on stripper clubs and booze. We spend it on guns and shooting.
Around 1975 I looked into buying a Mercedes automobile under the thinking it would last 20 years. Over that time span I would own several cars and probably spend more than the Mercedes cost. It was the associated cost of maintaining and insuring that was the deciding factor not to do it.

 

[mark-hunter]

@Sabattiboy
we think alike.
There was also a thread on this forum about how people do finance their safari trips. It turned out that many save on car.
For example: my car is vintage 2004.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

@Scott CWO ... You beat me to it. I was thinking the same thing: compare rural to rural. And because of where I live, my mind went to here in SW AK. Poverty is certainly a problem here, especially in really small communities (a few hundred people). Even then, most people have newer ATVs, snowmachines, and skiffs with functional to newer kickers. And nobody seems to lack for the cash to have the newest cell phones and support their vices. Because much of village life that small is still a subsistence lifestyle, I suspect the median income is lower than you'd see based on how they live, not that I am suggesting anyone is rolling in cash. But I do think the standard of living is still probably higher than small rural communities in Russia.

@mark-hunter ... Yes, there is poverty everywhere. Yes, we are incredibly freaking blessed to live where we do. Yes, cities the world over, some more than others, provide people from even more impoverished areas a chance at something more. New Delhi is not in the headlines because they don't have a megalomaniacal pile of dung killing innocent people in another country. I agree with Scott's assessment of what he shared: the disparity between the haves and have nots is much, much greater than in many places because of the government that's in place. It is perhaps coming to light more of late because of the completely incomprehensible decisions at the head of their government. Anyone offering any sort of moral support of Putin - even a single sentence - is either brain dead or benefitting financially from his system and/or decisions.

 

[Sabattiboy]

@mark-hunter
In Arizona the annual license plate renewal on a new car can run $1500 or more. A few years later the value starts dropping but the initial sales tax and subsequent license renewals would pay for an African plains game hunt. The 2010 Kia Soul I drive cost $45 for the 2022 license plate renewal.

 

[Boyd Brooks]

 

[Sabattiboy]

@Tundra Tiger
The younger set would live on the streets to afford the latest cell phone. I am now hearing $600 to $800 as common numbers.

 

[mark-hunter]

True! Worldwide true!

 

[Sabattiboy]

View attachment 457630View attachment 457631

I tried to paste the link to the article but I can't seem to. It's on Blaclocks Reporter, an excellent independent publication.

Yes, the leaders of the less free countries by the hour want to disarm everyone except criminals but have no problem with leaders of other countries invading other countries and killing their people all the while threatening to fire nuclear weapons at anybody hindering them.

 

[spike.t]

Putins TV speech....looking for anyone to blame as the shit mounts up....

BBC News - Ukraine war round-up: Civilian toll mounts and Putin attacks 'traitors'

Ukraine war round-up: Civilian toll mounts and Putin attacks 'traitors'

Three full weeks into war, a theatre turned shelter is shelled and the US and Russia row.

www.bbc.co.uk