Politics

[ActionBob]

Hence, why I agree with the prosecutions of January 6 rioters. It was a protest off the Federal property and became a riot and a crime once they stepped onto the Capitol grounds to disrupt the Congress.

Those on the right always give speeches about "personal responsibility" for one's actions. Well, those that got tried and convicted (or admitted guilt) are paying for their actions on that day that is a stain on our democracy.

As others have stated the real blame lies with Trump for not accepting the results of the election and inciting his followers to march to the capitol and not taking action for hours when the riots started.

I don't disagree with Trump not immediately accepting the proclaimed election results. But the time to contest it was long before January 6th. In fact I think it needed to be contested back on the State level.

Trump was completely wrong to think Pence had any power to do anything. I am not a Pence fan and think he should have dropped out of the 2024 Pesidential race way sooner than he did. However I disagree with folks who still proclaim he could have somehow not certified the election. He had no real power... People should make more of an effort to understand the Constitution. It is really a very wide document.... And yes I think Biden has far less regard for it than Trump ever did. He has total disregard for the Supreme Court and the Separation of Powers.

It was really way to late but if anything was to be done January 6th, I believe it needed to be a concerted and organized effort by Congress. And I do believe that Trump came up short of really inciting a riot. But he certainly could have acted to shut it down sooner.

Biggest thing he is guilty of is hiring stupid or arrogant attorneys.

 

[Brent in Az]

If Trump is elected, I hope he pardons every one of them.

 

[freefall]

All I can say is that if you think the 2020 election was conducted honestly and that Biden got more votes than Obama did, you are either a fool or an apparatchik.

 

[Brent in Az]

House committee is setting up for a vote to expand FISA 702 for 2 more years.

The Same FISA warrant that was corruptly used against Trump, for a crime he did not commit

 

[Brent in Az]

All I can say is that if you think the 2020 election was conducted honestly and that Biden got more votes than Obama did, you are either a fool or an apparatchik.

The forum fact checkers will have you believe that the Dem's are honest upstanding people, and no voter fraud was ever committed.

 

[freefall]

I stand by my expressed opinion.

 

[Just Gina]

I prefer to judge actual responsibility. The only person who actually instigated the event was Donald J. Trump. He called for the demonstration and then he called for the demonstrators to march on the capitol. Whether he belatedly said "peacefully" or not is beside the point. He lit the fuse. The only reason hundreds of foolish ignorant followers of his are sitting in jails is because of him.

As others have stated the real blame lies with Trump for not accepting the results of the election and inciting his followers to march to the capitol and not taking action for hours when the riots started.

Trump was not my first pick this go around, and Nikki Haley certainly was not. (And no it is not because she uses big words or wears heels.)
That being said, some, especially you two, blame Trump for some pretty ridiculous things.

At the end of the day, if someone told me to go break the law, and I did it, that would be on ME, not the person who told me to do it or, suggested I do it.

The real blame lies with the person who committed a crime.

People who decide to support a candidate because that is who we have, does NOT necessarily mean they are stupid, ignorant, or the like. Just like it does not make you two stupid or ignorant because you choose not to. The horse is dead. It begins to make people wonder if you’re trying to convince us, or yourselves on your views.

 

[Just Gina]

I don't disagree with Trump not immediately accepting the proclaimed election results. But the time to contest it was long before January 6th. In fact I think it needed to be contested back on the State level.

Trump was completely wrong to think Pence had any power to do anything. I am not a Pence fan and think he should have dropped out of the 2024 Pesidential race way sooner than he did. However I disagree with folks who still proclaim he could have somehow not certified the election. He had no real power... People should make more of an effort to understand the Constitution. It is really a very wide document.... And yes I think Biden has far less regard for it than Trump ever did. He has total disregard for the Supreme Court and the Separation of Powers.

It was really way to late but if anything was to be done January 6th, I believe it needed to be a concerted and organized effort by Congress. And I do believe that Trump came up short of really inciting a riot. But he certainly could have acted to shut it down sooner.

Biggest thing he is guilty of is hiring stupid or arrogant attorneys.

There you go again with reason and logic.

It is a catch 22 as far as Trump goes. He’s damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t. You and I have discussed this a lot.

If Trump had the ability to wave his hand and fix everything wrong in the world and did, a lot of people would still be butt hurt and complaining because it was Trump that did it.

Division. This is the problem. Look at the amount of division just on AH over it.

If I lived to be 100, I will likely not ever understand not wanting to vote to get someone like Biden out of the White House and to keep someone like him or worse from getting in.

 

[Pondoro]

My oh my...USA is dangerously polarized politically now..even at this forum.

 

[Just Gina]

My oh my...USA is dangerously polarized politically now..even at this forum.

Interesting… @ActionBob JUST said that same thing to me. Right you both are!

 

[Altitude sickness]

And guess what. The election results this fall, or next winter. When all the mail ballots are found.

Will only divide us further. If Biden or his surrogate wins we are screwed. But no riots. Conservatives don’t riot. We have responsibilities to attend too.

If trump wins there will be investigation after investigation. Impeachment after impeachment and riots in the streets. Of course those riots are justified. Just as the summer of riots where an African American retired police chief was shot in the head for protecting a minority owned business.

A Oregon federal building fire bombed multiple times. Over 100 deaths, nationwide . Our Vice President helped bail these “peaceful protestors” out of jail. Most received zero jail time. That’s what we face again or worse if trump wins.

Also even if a Republican wins. It’s only 4 years (if they don’t impeach him). A conservative elected only slows the decay. Every empire slowly moves left of center until it hits bottom. Then. Slowly comes back up to mediocrity, where it stays.

All you can do is prepare yourself and loved ones financially and physically for the heavy handed future government.

Remember, most if not all past tyrannical regimes started with liberal, socialist or communist philosophies.

 

[Red Leg]

Trump was not my first pick this go around, and Nikki Haley certainly was not. (And no it is not because she uses big words or wears heels.)
That being said, some, especially you two, blame Trump for some pretty ridiculous things.

At the end of the day, if someone told me to go break the law, and I did it, that would be on ME, not the person who told me to do it or, suggested I do it.

The real blame lies with the person who committed a crime.

People who decide to support a candidate because that is who we have, does NOT necessarily mean they are stupid, ignorant, or the like. Just like it does not make you two stupid or ignorant because you choose not to. The horse is dead. It begins to make people wonder if you’re trying to convince us, or yourselves on your views.

I absolutely agree with you Gina with respect to individual responsibility. However, perhaps it is because I spent most of my professional life in the military, I also absolutely believe that individual responsibility flows up as well as down the chain of command. It is, I think, a very difficult fact to argue that Ashli Babbitt would be alive and a lot of well meaning foolish people would not be languishing in jail had not Trump called for the demonstration or the subsequent march on the Capitol. I think that demands of the electorate some measure of consideration with respect to the motive and recklessness of that decision.

So, I am at a point where I strongly oppose the majority of the domestic agenda of the democrat party, am certain Biden is not competent to lead, and no longer trust Trump (I voted for him twice) with the office. I pin my hopes on a republican senate.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Here we are discussing two universes of protest.

The elites believe it’s OK to burn the peasants own buildings and cities down, killing each other, steal their own property,

But how dare the peasants come to the capital and scare them.

When I would say, that is exactly how it should work.

the people that think they own us. should be a little fearful that if they don’t follow the constitution and the will of the people, they will be tied to a rail and tarred and feathered.

Philosophically of course. I would never promote violence as a way over throw a tyrannical regime.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Mike Pence did not have the constitutional right to send results back to the states for recertification.

but the Congress sure did. There were several states that did not pass muster and did not follow law

Philadelphia specifically, and Pennsylvania for sure should’ve had there electors sent back to recertification. In fact, if I remember right, Pennsylvania even asked to have theirs back and it wasn’t allowed.

 

[PARA45]

In my opinion chanting "death to America" is not considered freedom of speech, that my friends is a threat! I remember the comparison in school that if you yelled "fire" in a crowded theater was not consider or protected under the 1st Amendment. I believe the same applies to "Death to America". Maybe I'm wrong.

Also, if we don't believe that we are being measured with a different yard stick, well you need to come out more. The 6 Jan is an unfortunate event, and whomever we want to blame it happened, and those who participated are being punished. However, the riots that happened throughout the US, the buildings burned, the monuments destroyed, the cops who got hurt or killed. Where are those rioters now? We don't hear about them, because that is ok, and they are probably getting ready for next riots.

For the sake of argument, Trump is to blame for the Jan 6 events. Ok, fine, I will not argue that. How about all those other politicians from the left who instigated the riots, why they are not being prosecuted? Maxine Waters calling "we need to get more confrontational". Those supporting Black Lives Matter. Why are they running around freely?

The double standards are in front of our noses, and we fail to see them.

 

[PARA45]

BTW, we need to stop the name calling and the insults. We are better than that! This forum has stood above and beyond any other forum because of the politeness, and education from our forum members. Let's not turn this great forum like the others out there.

 

[Louis Toadvine]

When it comes to J6, the Steele dossier, Collusion, Mar a lago raid, Trump indictments, etc, I have a laundry list of people I want to question.
A water board, pentothal, and other tools of the trade would get me answers I seek.
Under a Banana republic, I would put a whole bunch of people in prison for those answers. Politicians, FBI, Judges, and AG's, would never see the light of day again.
Unfortunately, our current judicial system doesn't allow for statements taken under duress.

Ever heard of the CIA, and all the dirty shit they've done to people under the guise of national security?

Have you noticed the escalating police state we are living in?

The FBI, in full tactical gear carrying automatic weapons, raided the home of an ex president for boxes of files. That's just a taste of what these tyrants will do when they become unopposed.

Democrats are controlling this country and it's opposition by injustice Republicans are spineless. Nothing will ever happen to the Dems or deep state goons. They are far roo entrenched into the bowels of system.

 

[WAB]

BTW, we need to stop the name calling and the insults. We are better than that! This forum has stood above and beyond any other forum because of the politeness, and education from our forum members. Let's not turn this great forum like the others out there.

I totally agree, if you can’t make a coherent, respectful point just don’t comment.

 

[Doubleplay]

I totally agree, if you can’t make a coherent, respectful point just don’t comment.

Some here are not capable of that.
Like Socrates said:
"When the debate is lost, insults become the loser's tool"

 

[Red Leg]

Back at the front, the incidents of Russian soldiers committing suicide continues to accelerate. Fifty-five have now been recorded by UA UAV's and the majority of those in the last 12 months. Three were posted in the last 24 hours. Because the UAV's have a soda straw view of the battlefield, it begs the question what is the multiple of these taking place across the battlespace. This is not the normal behavior of soldiers on the battlefield.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1c263rd

Other than the unnecessary battlefield deaths we are causing among the Ukrainians, what frustrates me the most about Johnson's and Freedom Caucus refusal to bring the UA aid package to a vote, are the mounting bits of evidence that the Russian Army may be approaching some sort of collapse in both materiel and morale. As is the case too often in post-WWII US foreign policy, we seem determined to find a path that snatches defeat from the jaws of victory.

I posted the picture and video of what appeared to me at least, a desperate attempt to protect a T-62 tank. Numerous videos have appeared over the last few weeks of Russians attempting to advance against defensive positions riding Chinese ATVs - with predictable results. The clip below is the most astounding yet. In this case the assault troops are mounted on Ural trucks which have been equipped with wire cages to protect them against explosive UAVs (drones). Of course, it protects them against nothing else.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1c1paly