Politics

[Doubleplay]

As has been pointed out in this thread, assimilation takes time. I believe the West would be extremely wise to turn off the migrant faucet for a generation and let this experiment run its course. I personally think it would only be opened again at the barest trickle.

West and specially Germany won't turn off the migrant faucet anytime soon.
They have negative population growth and rapidly aging population, same with France, Spain etc..
They need people to work and take care of them and they can't pick and choose at this point or can't wait a decade or more.
Same here.... As I write this bunch of guys working in my yard and some of them might be illegal immigrants but I can't find anybody else to do the job and trust me I looked hard.
The name of the game will be coexist rather than assimilation either we like it or not.

 

[PARA45]

The times I've visited many countries (while in the military) we tried to learn their customs and respect their customs and traditions. We didn't assimilate their way of life because one, we were not citizens of that country, and two, we were there temporarily.

When I first came into this great country, I remember like it was yesterday, Mr. Pizzella (I hope I got the spelling correct), third generation Italian telling me something I will never forget. He said to me that the US was the melting pot for immigrants, to learn the American values, way of life, and to become an American because this was my new mother land. I took his advice to heart and live by it.

There are groups out there who do not want to assimilate the US way of life, and they want to change our culture, and turn this great country into the same sh*thole they left. So, I tell them (it usually gets me in trouble) go back to where you came from, if you don't like our ways, then leave. Last time I checked the borders are open.

This may not sit well with some, but as an immigrant (mom, dad, and 3 siblings), it hurts me to see what they are doing to our country.

 

[cash_tx]

Yet another Trump attorney has pled guilty in the Georgia case and has agreed to fully cooperate with the court. Interesting reversal. Ellis had a reputation of being one of the true believers in Trump.

I wonder if Trump could cut a deal to testify against Giuliani?

I have to assume these guilty pleas mean nothing to the Trump acolytes? I mean, after all the governor and secretary of state were immediately written off as RINOs and swamp creatures for certifying the election and not going along with this scheme.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/10/24...ia-election-case-the-latest-to-flip.html[/URL

For a guy who has thrown so many of his own people under the bus, to see it now happening to Trump is not the saddest thing I've witnessed this week. And I got a real chuckle to see him claim that Sidney Powell was never one of his attorneys, LOL ;-)

 

[Tundra Tiger]

The times I've visited many countries (while in the military) we tried to learn their customs and respect their customs and traditions. We didn't assimilate their way of life because one, we were not citizens of that country, and two, we were there temporarily.

When I first came into this great country, I remember like it was yesterday, Mr. Pizzella (I hope I got the spelling correct), third generation Italian telling me something I will never forget. He said to me that the US was the melting pot for immigrants, to learn the American values, way of life, and to become an American because this was my new mother land. I took his advice to heart and live by it.

There are groups out there who do not want to assimilate the US way of life, and they want to change our culture, and turn this great country into the same sh*thole they left. So, I tell them (it usually gets me in trouble) go back to where you came from, if you don't like our ways, then leave. Last time I checked the borders are open.

This may not sit well with some, but as an immigrant (mom, dad, and 3 siblings), it hurts me to see what they are doing to our country.

I can't give that enough likes Oscar.

 

[PARA45]

Thanks TT, much appreciated!!

 

[Red Leg]

Very well made point. A macro driver that many don’t understand is economics. We talk about immigration like these European countries have a choice. The reality is that their birth rates are insufficient to maintain their economies. The only available workforce to allow for continued economic growth are Muslim immigrants. This die was cast decades ago. Current political disruptions have not caused the macro effect, birth rates have.

I think you and @Doubleplay are absolutely correct. We are fortunate in this country that most of our replacement population is coming from the South rather than the East. Assimilation is far easier for us than what Europe is experiencing with its Islamic experiment. The concern I have is with respect to the future of Western culture. It is currently not politically correct to extol the virtues of the West. But developed modern society was created by that culture. By that, I don't just mean scientific discovery, but also uniquely Western concepts with respect to government, individual rights, and the huge fabric of institutions and behaviors encompassed in self-determination.

Much of that is antithetical to Islam and its culture of submission that expresses itself not just in a religious way, but also with respect to things like scientific curiosity, cultural and religious tolerance, and political asperations. I truly worry that in solving an economic challenge, that the West will lose much of the unique character that created a 21st century with such economic potential and accomplishment.

 

[wesheltonj]

Not till after Sunday, please.

 

[Red Leg]

Pretty funny, but interesting, discussion of Trump over on Russian TV two nights ago.

 

[Zambezi]

West and specially Germany won't turn off the migrant faucet anytime soon.
They have negative population growth and rapidly aging population, same with France, Spain etc..
They need people to work and take care of them and they can't pick and choose at this point or can't wait a decade or more.
Same here.... As I write this bunch of guys working in my yard and some of them might be illegal immigrants but I can't find anybody else to do the job and trust me I looked hard.
The name of the game will be coexist rather than assimilation either we like it or not.

What you don't seem to grasp is that this isn't a population decline equation. It's a power equation. You have an indigenous population that decides their own destiny rightly or wrongly. (i.e Germans deciding to only have 2 kids and come what may they are German with German ideals and principals). If you have an ever increasing Muslim population that are hell bent on out breeding the locals then how can allowing more migrants in be a positive thing? Much Like China who realised that the one child idea was a disaster so Germany etc will come to the same conclusion.

Your analogy of where you are and you can only find poor immigrants to do the work is largely a self fulfilling prophecy. The immigrants will come in and live on welfare or do menial labour. If there are no illegal aliens or refugees filling those roles then the wages will rise and the locals will start to fill those roles.

You live in this pie in the sky world where they will give up their fundamentalism and accept their new found country. Ridiculous! Much like the dems moving from their shit holes to Rep states and destroying their new homes in the name of their beliefs that didn't work in the places they left.

You need to release your idealism and replace it with fact and reality.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Do not discount the age or robotics and the power of AI in filling the population numbers void. First world countries will very soon not need any migrants at all, and the migrants of course will still come.

 

[WAB]

What you don't seem to grasp is that this isn't a population decline equation. It's a power equation. You have an indigenous population that decides their own destiny rightly or wrongly. (i.e Germans deciding to only have 2 kids and come what may they are German with German ideals and principals). If you have an ever increasing Muslim population that are hell bent on out breeding the locals then how can allowing more migrants in be a positive thing? Much Like China who realised that the one child idea was a disaster so Germany etc will come to the same conclusion.

Your analogy of where you are and you can only find poor immigrants to do the work is largely a self fulfilling prophecy. The immigrants will come in and live on welfare or do menial labour. If there are no illegal aliens or refugees filling those roles then the wages will rise and the locals will start to fill those roles.

You live in this pie in the sky world where they will give up their fundamentalism and accept their new found country. Ridiculous! Much like the dems moving from their shit holes to Rep states and destroying their new homes in the name of their beliefs that didn't work in the places they left.

You need to release your idealism and replace it with fact and reality.

I’m not sure you understand the birth rate issue. Top economists predicted this shift 20 years ago. It has nothing to do with religion or race. It has everything to do with maintaining GDP growth. All of the religious, race, political issues certainly impact the outcome, but they do not drive it.

 

[WAB]

I think you and @Doubleplay are absolutely correct. We are fortunate in this country that most of our replacement population is coming from the South rather than the East. Assimilation is far easier for us than what Europe is experiencing with its Islamic experiment. The concern I have is with respect to the future of Western culture. It is currently not politically correct to extol the virtues of the West. But developed modern society was created by that culture. By that, I don't just mean scientific discovery, but also uniquely Western concepts with respect to government, individual rights, and the huge fabric of institutions and behaviors encompassed in self-determination.

Much of that is antithetical to Islam and its culture of submission that expresses itself not just in a religious way, but also with respect to things like scientific curiosity, cultural and religious tolerance, and political asperations. I truly worry that in solving an economic challenge, that the West will lose much of the unique character that created a 21st century with such economic potential and accomplishment.

I couldn’t agree more. Couple the Islamic zeal for maintaining their culture and religion with the West’s ambivalence to their own and the Judeo-Christian values their society is built upon, and you have a formula for disaster. You don’t have to look any further than our own congress. The squad hate our values, our constitution, everything that we as a nation stand for. And yet, there they are, duly elected
Representatives in our congress!!!

 

[Zambezi]

I’m not sure you understand the birth rate issue. Top economists predicted this shift 20 years ago. It has nothing to do with religion or race. It has everything to do with maintaining GDP growth. All of the religious, race, political issues certainly impact the outcome, but they do not drive it.

I hear you but I actually do understand the birth rate dynamic with regards to economic progression and growth. Like everything in life we have a choice regarding a generation or two of catastrophic economic catastrophe due to declining population growth that will result in economic decline or on the other hand an invasion of radical destruction that will lead to the destruction of everything except the Muslim faith and their ideas of how the world should be run.

By giving into mass refugee invasion one is giving into a slow bleed. Death by a thousand cuts.

If it is a race to see who can out breed the other then we have to be realistic ( no matter how un PC it is) then we have to "get busy"

It is a problem with the Republicans, the meek around the world, the conservatives worldwide... we want to be the "less aggressive".. to "make nice" and play by the rules. The other side relies on our honour an they use it against us.

Unfortunately many don't talk straight because they fear retribution and being cancelled. It might be time to stand up.
( @WAB ) I'm sure we think alike mostly so not a personal dig

 

[WAB]

I hear you but I actually do understand the birth rate dynamic with regards to economic progression and growth. Like everything in life we have a choice regarding a generation or two of catastrophic economic catastrophe due to declining population growth that will result in economic decline or on the other hand an invasion of radical destruction that will lead to the destruction of everything except the Muslim faith and their ideas of how the world should be run.

By giving into mass refugee invasion one is giving into a slow bleed. Death by a thousand cuts.

If it is a race to see who can out breed the other then we have to be realistic ( no matter how un PC it is) then we have to "get busy"

It is a problem with the Republicans, the meek around the world, the conservatives worldwide... we want to be the "less aggressive".. to "make nice" and play by the rules. The other side relies on our honour an they use it against us.

Unfortunately many don't talk straight because they fear retribution and being cancelled. It might be time to stand up.
( @WAB ) I'm sure we think alike mostly so not a personal dig

Not taken that way at all. You make an interesting point. I suppose we could sacrifice our economy in order to limit immigration. Unfortunately, you would also have to decouple the country from the global economy to avoid mass starvation. There is no easy answer.

As @RedLeg points out, we are fortunate in that most of our shortfall is met from South of our border. Folks who for the most part share our values and are honest, hard working contributors to our country.

 

[Zambezi]

Yeah, the good thing about the southern border infiltration is that they are largely Christian in nature and they might want "free stuff" and a better life. They don't want to change the religious and fundamental values of America.

I say the following without bias or self advantage: If the USA let in every white person from Africa (probably 5 million from cape to Cairo) you'd have 5 million integrating and becoming Americans in a few years.

It all boils down to integration and the DESIRE to integrate and assimilate.

I am halfway in the process to moving to Australia. I will be an Australian and frikken proud to be so. In all honesty it will take me decades to stop supporting the springboks or the protoeas. But I will be Australian.

That's the difference. We become our new countries citizens

 

[Graham Hunter]

Yeah, the good thing about the southern border infiltration is that they are largely Christian in nature and they might want "free stuff" and a better life. They don't want to change the religious and fundamental values of America.

I say the following without bias or self advantage: If the USA let in every white person from Africa (probably 5 million from cape to Cairo) you'd have 5 million integrating and becoming Americans in a few years.

It all boils down to integration and the DESIRE to integrate and assimilate.

I am halfway in the process to moving to Australia. I will be an Australian and frikken proud to be so. In all honesty it will take me decades to stop supporting the springboks or the protoeas. But I will be Australian.

That's the difference. We become our new countries citizens

And what is prompting your move.

 

[Josh P]

As @RedLeg points out, we are fortunate in that most of our shortfall is met from South of our border.

Thankfully, those weirdos from the north aren't sneaking down!

 

[WAB]

Thankfully, those weirdos from the north aren't sneaking down!

We’re everywhere, eh?

 

[Zambezi]

And what is prompting your move.

I want a better future for my kids. I'd give my left ball (in fact both) for my kids to have my childhood in Bulawayo but Africa of the 60's-70's is history. And no matter how much we wish and hope it's never coming back. I know many Africans will lambast me for this.

I may be blacklisted for this. But so be it

 

[Hunt anything]

We’re everywhere, eh?

Only if want gravy on everything you eat! At least in Saskatchewan.