Politics

[Brent in Az]

With the Corona virus blame game losing traction, the Leftards have seized the opportunity to March forward with another racist rant, tied to the riots of the professional agitators.

Apparently, the media ghouls forgot about Obama calling the Baltimore protesters "Thugs".

We will see much more of this, leading up to November 3rd.

 

[Saul]

However you slice it, the situation right now is both a product of racial tensions and police brutality. The anger right now is about police officers with multiple accusations of excessive force still being employed, the techniques being used by those officers resulting in the death of a man for a nonviolent offense, and a a pattern of police not facing consequences for unlawful killings of black people. The black community in America has a long history of abuse at the hands of the government, so they are rightfully distrustful of those in government power. One can be supportive of those in uniform, while also acknowledging the fact that black people are more likely to face harassment and aggression at the hands of the police and the justice system.

 

[Ray B]

One comment that upsets me is the "bad or rogue cops" description as if there are 99% "good" cops and 1% bad/rogue cops. No where do I hear any mention of the psychological abuse directed at law enforcement to which they are not allowed to respond and to which causes wear and tear on them. The result is the Them and Us mentality on both groups, law enforcement and civilian. Add to that a criminal justice system that of late has done a GREAT deal to undermine the system of justice in the US, it is easy to see where some of the officers could say "I've had it, I quit" only they aren't allowed to quit because they have bills to pay and a family to support.

 

[Hank2211]

There are a great many police doing wonderful work in our communities every day. There are also bad apples who are attracted to the job for all the wrong reasons, who get their jollies out of abusing their authority and intimidating others, who justify every over-reaction on the basis that they were scared for their lives, and who should be weeded out. Unfortunately, they are not, mostly due to unions, but also due to politicians who are happy to play to identity politics (though in reverse to that which we normally see).

The victim in question was presumed innocent until proven guilty. He was suspected of a crime, no more, and a crime for which the maximum punishment was not death. So perhaps we can leave that aside? He clearly wasn't resisting arrest for many minutes in the video. Bystanders told the accused police officer that the individual couldn't breath and that he would die. Two other police officers were heard telling the one with his knee on the neck that he should let up, and he declined. It seems everyone knew that the individual couldn't breath and wasn't resisting except the man with the gun. When you are holding someone, and that person says he can't breath, and others say he can't breath and he dies because he couldn't breath (and by the way, let's wait for a real autopsy - funny how this one got done and findings released in a day!), then you have to answer for your actions.

We live in a society governed by a social contract (going back to Rousseau, Locke and Hobbs), pursuant to which the governed grant a monopoly on the use of force to the state in exchange for protection and justice. Black men in America might well believe, not without justification, that the social contract, insofar as they are a party to it, has been fundamentally breached.

 

[Ray B]

The victim in question was presumed innocent until proven guilty.

I see. The black man was innocent until proven guilty, but the white officer is guilty prior to any review.

Too bad you don't appear to see the irony of your statements.

 

[BSO Dave]

However you slice it, the situation right now is both a product of racial tensions and police brutality. The anger right now is about police officers with multiple accusations of excessive force still being employed, the techniques being used by those officers resulting in the death of a man for a nonviolent offense, and a a pattern of police not facing consequences for unlawful killings of black people. The black community in America has a long history of abuse at the hands of the government, so they are rightfully distrustful of those in government power. One can be supportive of those in uniform, while also acknowledging the fact that black people are more likely to face harassment and aggression at the hands of the police and the justice system.

The statistics, along with my personal experience of over 30 years in law enforcement in several multicultural, multi-racial communities, simply do not support those contentions. In the USA, whites are injured and killed during police interactions at a rate of 2.5 times compared to blacks. Yet, blacks disproportionately commit violent crimes at a much higher rate than all other races combined. Additionally, police shootings of suspects of all races has been in steady decline over the last 2 decades in the USA.

The difference, unfortunately is how the media covers these events, and subsequently how the various racial communities choose to react. Let's even assume for the sake of argument that there is a case to be made for racial bias of police toward any particular race. So, when does any amount of anger or frustration justify violent and criminal reactions? It's not as if this police officer was acquitted for the alleged crime and set free. Even when justice is in the course of being served, are we now at the point that it's acceptable to set aside the rule of law so we can pick and choose which laws to follow or dictate the pace we prefer according to the level of our anger, our frustration, or even our race?

Furthermore, the rioting, looting, arson, and violence has absolutely nothing to do with race, societal anger, or frustration with the justice system in the USA. The fact that humans are capable of cognitive reasoning and the ability to control our emotions is supposed to be what separates us from wild animals. Anyone making that connection of justifying one action for another is either naive, stupid or both. These "protests" are nothing but a free pass for criminals to be criminals, and there should be no understanding, reasoning, or empathy for violent criminal behavior anywhere in a civilized society.

 

[IdaRam]

There are a multitude of things going on all at once here that are getting all muddled together to further agendas and unless we are willing and able to see each for what is, instead of conflating one thing with another, it seems likely the only thing that will come from this is more disagreement and division.
We can vehemently support law enforcement officers in the discharge of their sworn duty, while condemning these officers in the Floyd case. I have many friends in law enforcement and I support them 100% unless they cross the line. They forfeit that trust and support because of their own misdeeds. Their fault, not mine. When an officer places someone into custody and restrains them, he temporarily suspends a persons most basic human right, that of self preservation and becomes responsible for the well-being of that individual. The law has given him that authority and the responsibility that comes along with it. This officer restrained the individual and instead of then rolling him onto his side and eventually allowing him to sit up, he continued to apply force and inflict significant discomfort. If allowed to sit up the suspect might have tried to then get up, flee, fight, spit... or he may have just complied with instructions. If he tried to flee, tackle or tase him. Any further mis behavior can be dealt with. The officer doesn’t get to continue applying force at his sole discretion, he is allowed to apply force until the subject is subdued and restrained and then he must let up. He didn’t. And his fellow officers did not intervene, which they have a responsibility to do. And now they are all likely to pay a hefty price, as did the suspect in question. Was this person, Floyd, a scumbag? Maybe. Did he commit a crime? Probably. Has he been convicted of previous crimes? I don’t know. AND NONE OF THAT MATTERS. How can anyone justify the actions shown in the video tape? Why were three cops standing around while one kneeled on a guys neck for 8 minutes? If he continues to be a problem get some cuffs on his ankles and truss him up in the back seat of a patrol car. Even if he hadn’t suffered a health incident and died, this public spectacle does not further a positive image of law enforcement within the community. Cops should not be viewed as thugs by the citizenry, but this behavior furthers that image. Cops should be viewed as the biggest bad-asses on the block. But they are our bad-asses, here for US!
My belief, communities should support their law enforcement officers to the fullest. Until an officers breaks the public trust. And then he should be dealt with swiftly, severely and transparently. I suspect there are more problems lying underneath the surface in this police force, not just one bad cop.
As for these riots and all the crap going on, I think much of this has been locked and loaded for some time, just waiting for the right event to kick things off and here we are. Antifa and other groups have been planning and preparing to incite civil unrest for months, just needed something the MSM could get its hooks into.
Leadership in the black community has been hard at work sewing division with an agenda and a purpose.
We have an election coming up with many special interests working hard to further hard left agendas.
People are already getting a little crazy from COVID.
We could probably go on all day.
YMMV obviously.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

Saw part of this on the national news. A guy in Salt Lake City gets out of his car and draws his bow and arrow at protesters. Protesters attack like a pack of hyenas and beat the crap out him, roll and burn his car. Police are planning to charge the guy for brandishing the bow and arrow. Lesson learned: don't bring bow and arrow to a gun fight.

 

[Brent in Az]

These rioters are nothing but rabid animals, and should be treated as such.

 

[Ray B]

So if the guy was charged with brandishing archery equipment, but not actually injuring anyone, what were the nes that assaulted him and damaged his car charged with?

 

[Hank2211]

I see. The black man was innocent until proven guilty, but the white officer is guilty prior to any review.

Too bad you don't appear to see the irony of your statements.

I know irony when I see it. Please point out to me where I said the officer was guilty of anything. I called him the "accused". I said he had to answer for his actions. Same as the black man would have had he survived his "arrest."

But you seem convinced that the black man was guilty of something. Perhaps you don't value the presumption of innocence. Perhaps you like it when police officers are judge, jury and executioner. That's fine; to each their own.

 

[Ray B]

One question about the whole thing that confuses me: how can someone talk if he can't breathe?

 

[BRICKBURN]

One question about the whole thing that confuses me: how can someone talk if he can't breathe?

An FYI:
Sadly, that is what people often gasp when they have difficulty breathing.
It is a sign/symptom of Respiratory Distress or Failure . ie."Severe Air Hunger"
People get quite anxious when they do not get oxygen.

First Aid Training suggests these actions to assist the person in distress.

 

[nztimb]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=580315549285480

 

[Ray B]

Of course there is a problem in any society where a barber shop or exercise center is forbidden from operating because of health concerns and the same authorities allow the wholesale destruction of buildings, automobiles and people by a mob.

 

[Foxi]

Saw part of this on the national news. A guy in Salt Lake City gets out of his car and draws his bow and arrow at protesters. Protesters attack like a pack of hyenas and beat the crap out him, roll and burn his car. Police are planning to charge the guy for brandishing the bow and arrow. Lesson learned: don't bring bow and arrow to a gun fight.

What was he trying to do? That the traffic light turns green faster?
Standing in a traffic jam, surrounded by a mob, calmly gets out of the car and aims (with a deadly) weapon at the people.
A tired of life in a circle of lunatics.

Hope no AH member is injured by these riots.

@ BSO Dave
https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

 

[BSO Dave]

@ BSO Dave
https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

Not sure why this link is addressed to my attention..? If you think you are educating me you are mistaken. I can quote these statistics in my sleep. I'm the one who used to compile and provide them for the FBI's national data base for my department. Regardless, the numbers in your link are reflective of a completely different set of dynamics than the numbers I provided which indicates that based on the entire US population, police kill whites nearly 3 times more frequently than any other race. The data that you linked shows that blacks are 2 times more likely to be killed by police. Both statistics are true, however, the latter is a more significant and telling statistic considering that blacks disproportionately commit an average of 40% of all violent crimes in the USA while representing only 13% of the total US population as a race.

To my original point posted earlier, let's all assume for a minute that we can take the elements of emotion and race out of the equation and just look objectively at those numbers which speak for themselves. The conclusion is pretty simple. If you statistically commit more violent crime as a group, you are going to be more likely to have violent interaction with police as a group.

 

[CJW]

This is only the start. The preliminary autopsy is out showing no asphyxiation and more video is finally getting out showing resistance, more details of what lead up to the arrest and kinds of intoxicants in his system will come to light. What happens if charges are lowered or worse? Remember, this is happening when EVERYONE agrees.



Is it too late for white people to riot over the beheading or nearly so of two white people when black people cheered a not guilty verdict for a black man?

 

[CJW]

Not sure why this link is addressed to my attention..? If you think you are educating me you are mistaken. I can quote these statistics in my sleep. I'm the one who used to compile and provide them for the FBI's national data base for my department. Regardless, the numbers in your link are reflective of a completely different set of dynamics than the numbers I provided which indicates that based on the entire US population, police kill whites nearly 3 times more frequently than any other race. The data that you linked shows that blacks are 2 times more likely to be killed by police. Both statistics are true, however, the latter is a more significant and telling statistic considering that blacks disproportionately commit an average of 40% of all violent crimes in the USA while representing only 13% of the total US population as a race.

To my original point posted earlier, let's all assume for a minute that we can take the elements of emotion and race out of the equation and just look objectively at those numbers which speak for themselves. The conclusion is pretty simple. If you statistically commit more violent crime as a group, you are going to be more likely to have violent interaction with police as a group.

The problem is that critical thinking skills have gone out the window in this day and age.

 

[BSO Dave]

An FYI:
Sadly, that is what people often gasp when they have difficulty breathing.
It is a sign/symptom of Respiratory Distress or Failure . ie."Severe Air Hunger"
People get quite anxious when they do not get oxygen.

Not to be argumentative, and with all due respect, but solely for the point of clarity, the algorithm you posted is for respiratory failure which is different than a foreign body airway obstruction that, if not removed, would ultimately lead to respiratory failure and eventual death from asphyxiation. The vocal chords can only function when air is passed through them, which is why the AHA guidelines use the ability to vocalize speech as the first indicator in assessing the severity of an airway obstruction. In layman's terms, if you can speak, you are breathing.

Assess severity[1, 2]
Mild obstruction

• The patient is able to breathe, cough effectively and speak.
• Children are fully responsive, crying or verbally respond to questions; may have a loud cough (and be able to take a breath before coughing).[3]

Severe obstruction
This is indicated by:

• The victim being unable to breathe or speak/vocalise.
• Wheezy breath sounds.
• Attempts at coughing that are quiet or silent.
• Cyanosis and diminishing conscious level (particularly in children).
• The victim being unconscious.

Mr. Floyd's autopsy did not indicate death from asphyxiation, but a "combined effect of Floyd being restrained by the police, his underlying health conditions, and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death."

Floyd's pleas that he couldn't breathe likely came from a very real sensation that one cannot catch their breath due to poor cardiac output that results when the body's cardio-vascular system fails to properly saturate the cells with oxygen. This is the most likely scenario considering the stress and anxiety of being severely physically restrained, which exacerbated his underlying heart disease potentiated by any intoxicants. Again, in layman's terms, this is why most who are experiencing angina, a heart attack, or pulmonary embolism feel the overwhelming sensation that that cannot breath even thought they are completely physically capable of moving air in and out of their lungs. That oxygen is not getting from the lungs to the cells.