Politics

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Here's a question. If we were to copy and paste another country's healthcare system (obviously after adjusting it to fit America), which should it be. I've heard good things about France and Germany (allow private insurers) whereas the Canadian and British systems are considered flawed to a hilarious degree.
 
All one needs to do to see why medical services are high priced is look at two things: 1. What it takes to become a doctor/potential number of doctor graduates per year and 2. The amount of time/actions required by doctors/staff regarding justification of actions/non-actions to government regulator/insurance companies/malpractice claims. Whether or not the government takes over the payment aspect of health care, it will decrease 1 while increasing 2. So the goal of having healthcare will be placed farther out of reach.
 
Then take a bunch of countries with different kinds of systems, and break down the cost of the same procedure and see what costs what. By doing that, it gives you a better perspective on what can be improved.

It's not a perfect system but I think the trick is just to use as much math as you can.
 
I cannot answer your question, but your question causes me to think of another question, LOL

If you have to adjust the system to fit America, is it really a copy/paste?

I think the reason this question comes to my mind is whenever I hear someone say that socialism ala Denmark or Sweden is a good model that we should adopt in the U.S., I kind of chuckle to myself when I realize that Harris County Texas has nearly the same population as Belgium, and it is a hell of a lot more diverse.

How do you scale up a system like that from 5 million people to 335 million?
 
That's for people much wiser/well-learned than I to determine.
Probably will involve lots of math and cultural anthropology (Gotta have this hypothetical system be flexible for the wide variety of folks in this country).
 
Cost comparison Ecuador vs US 1995

In 1995 I was working on a construction project in Cuenca, Ecuador. A step failed and I fell, landing on my chin. The skin was broken open about 30mm and deep to the bone. The doctor on our project took me to a one-man operation clinic. I was examined, an inner row of stitches (dissolving) and an outer row to be removed after arriving back in the US. Treatment included disinfectants and pain meds. total cost for the Ecuador portion was 39,000 Sucre, exchange rate at the time 2600 = $1. cost = $15.00 On return I went to the doctor to have the outer row of stitches removed. My co-pay was $10 and they billed my insurance about $200.00; All that was done was the doctor spent about 5 minutes, clipped one knot and un=threaded the stitch. I could actually have done it myself with scissors, tweezers and a mirror. The differences is that the US doctor had numerous forms to fill-out to justify the actions in addition to thousands of $$ in med school debt and payments on his large house and car as well as malpractice insurance and his 401K.

When the Ecuador doctor gave us the bill the US doctor just about fainted at the small charge.
 
Ok yea the article is crap but the tweet makes me stand by my words. I dont mean to be the Joker but we live in a society with certain rules. Among those is that you gotta wash your hands regularly, at least semi regularly, especially with the Coronavirus risk.
The Guardian is a far left rag that does everything in it's power to spin a story in that direction. It's articles are analogous to paper for wrapping fish.
 
With regard to healthcare, I believe that people have the right to not die from a sickness, and it is not sustainable for a society to have a large percentage of the population go bankrupt every time they have a large medical expense. Furthermore, forcing people to decide on treatments due to cost is both unconducive to desirable outcomes and morally wrong, making it essential that citizens have some means of affordable access to healthcare.

When corporations have been forced to establish a blanket healthcare fund for affected parties as part of a settlement, the amount allocated to the fund is determined by the cost associated with critical conditions resulting directly from the wrongdoing by the corporation. However, when the beneficiaries are of a population that has not had widely available access to routine healthcare, initial health assessments expose a multitude of underlying conditions, quickly exceeding the cost estimates and depleting the fund. Medicare-for-all and other free healthcare options like those championed by Sanders are disingenuous in their cost estimates because they do not consider such ballooning costs. In order for such healthcare plans to be sustainable, care would have to be limited to only necessary expenditures, thus eliminating much preventative care, which in turn will result in more unfavorable health outcomes and exacerbate already expensive costs.

Since citizens need access to affordable healthcare that does not overburden the healthcare system, an alternate to socialized medicine is required. With preventative care is so critical to favorable outcomes, thereby reducing overall health costs, there is a profit motive for private organizations to deliver both affordable and quality healthcare, especially to the most underserved communities.

To maximize the societal benefit and mitigate extraneous costs in a private healthcare system, there must be near full participation by the population. This means both cost sharing to compensate for more expensive treatments. The most efficient and equitable method of cost sharing is private insurance. If the healthcare system is to rely on private insurance, then there must be some mechanism to allow for all citizens to afford it. the simplest solution would be to dissolve Medicare/Medicaid and instead subsidize the cost to insurance companies for offering coverage to the population. With the dramatically increased participation in the insurance pool, as well as the elimination of administrative costs associated with Medicare/Medicaid and the decidedly cheaper overall cost from a private healthcare system, the total investment in subsidies would be quite smaller than the current spending on Medicare/Medicaid.
 
With regard to healthcare, I believe that people have the right to not die from a sickness, and it is not sustainable for a society to have a large percentage of the population go bankrupt every time they have a large medical expense. Furthermore, forcing people to decide on treatments due to cost is both unconducive to desirable outcomes and morally wrong, making it essential that citizens have some means of affordable access to healthcare.

When corporations have been forced to establish a blanket healthcare fund for affected parties as part of a settlement, the amount allocated to the fund is determined by the cost associated with critical conditions resulting directly from the wrongdoing by the corporation. However, when the beneficiaries are of a population that has not had widely available access to routine healthcare, initial health assessments expose a multitude of underlying conditions, quickly exceeding the cost estimates and depleting the fund. Medicare-for-all and other free healthcare options like those championed by Sanders are disingenuous in their cost estimates because they do not consider such ballooning costs. In order for such healthcare plans to be sustainable, care would have to be limited to only necessary expenditures, thus eliminating much preventative care, which in turn will result in more unfavorable health outcomes and exacerbate already expensive costs.

Since citizens need access to affordable healthcare that does not overburden the healthcare system, an alternate to socialized medicine is required. With preventative care is so critical to favorable outcomes, thereby reducing overall health costs, there is a profit motive for private organizations to deliver both affordable and quality healthcare, especially to the most underserved communities.

To maximize the societal benefit and mitigate extraneous costs in a private healthcare system, there must be near full participation by the population. This means both cost sharing to compensate for more expensive treatments. The most efficient and equitable method of cost sharing is private insurance. If the healthcare system is to rely on private insurance, then there must be some mechanism to allow for all citizens to afford it. the simplest solution would be to dissolve Medicare/Medicaid and instead subsidize the cost to insurance companies for offering coverage to the population. With the dramatically increased participation in the insurance pool, as well as the elimination of administrative costs associated with Medicare/Medicaid and the decidedly cheaper overall cost from a private healthcare system, the total investment in subsidies would be quite smaller than the current spending on Medicare/Medicaid.
Do people that engage in irresponsible behavior, drug, alcohol or food addictions, impaired drivers, smokers, gang members shot by other gang members, welfare mothers, illegal immigrants, etc, have the "right" to have responsible people pay for their health care and medicines? Philadelphia is set to be the first in the nation to open a safe injection site for drug addicts. Who's paying for that? People that don't do drugs.
 
Do people that engage in irresponsible behavior, drug, alcohol or food addictions, impaired drivers, smokers, gang members shot by other gang members, welfare mothers, illegal immigrants, etc, have the "right" to have responsible people pay for their health care and medicines? Philadelphia is set to be the first in the nation to open a safe injection site for drug addicts. Who's paying for that? People that don't do drugs.
Damn you caught me! I was typing this on the go so I did not cover everything, but with regard to such people, the private insurance system is once again the best option. The way I would structure it is that government subsidy for insurance would ensure that all people are covered, not whether their rates can be adjusted to account for detrimental choices. If you have cancer, you will be able to see a doctor and receive quality care without losing your shirt. If you regularly inject heroin between your toes, you will also be able to see a doctor, but be ready to pay what is necessary to offset your financial burden on others.
 
the problem with govt subsidizing something is that it allows the price to increase. Back in school this effect was referred to as Shadow Price. it's similar to price increases when a third party pays the bill for someone else (the provider and the consumer think they have no relation to the price).
 
the problem with govt subsidizing something is that it allows the price to increase. Back in school this effect was referred to as Shadow Price. it's similar to price increases when a third party pays the bill for someone else (the provider and the consumer think they have no relation to the price).

Agree. When you subsidize something, you get more of it. In Philly, they're going to subsidize drug users with safe places to shoot up. They'll get more of it. SMH.
 
Another thing to consider, with the way the laws are written here in Canada it's almost impossible to win a malpractice case.
With the Good Samaritan laws and other laws to protect medical providers unless you can prove a medical provider acted to harm you intentionally you've already lost.
 

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