Pleasant 4457 experience

[Stormy Kromer]

I'd like to comment on a pleasant experience I had yesterday getting a 4457 form.

I'm heading to Africa with a friend in March and went to the nearest customs office to complete our 4457 forms. We chose the customs office at the Sioux Falls, SD airport. I called ahead to see if there was a time that worked best and the officer told me what would be best, then the officer told us where to go and even where to park.

He met us at his office and made the whole experience completely painless and even pleasant. By far the most friendly and helpful experience I've ever had with a customs officer.

Thank you.

 

[Hyde Hunter]

Stormy, I was just there 2 weeks ago, that guy is very nice to work with and very friendly. I called him and told him that he did the form last year and since I was taking the same rifles and suppressor this April could I just bring him the old form and the one I just filled out and leave the guns at home, he said he was good with that since he remembered me, great customer service and nice to talk to. I think I might take him a Subway sandwich coupon when I go buy next month since they are next door to him

 

[Jon R15]

The Sioux Falls airport has always been hunter and gun friendly.

 

[JimP]

Some offices are nice and friendly and will help you out.

My local regional airport just 3 miles away has a US Customs office and it is like pulling teeth to get them to do a 4457, so much so I just as soon drive 120 miles to Denver to have mine done.

 

[Fixfire]

Stormy, I was just there 2 weeks ago, that guy is very nice to work with and very friendly. I called him and told him that he did the form last year and since I was taking the same rifles and suppressor this April could I just bring him the old form and the one I just filled out and leave the guns at home, he said he was good with that since he remembered me, great customer service and nice to talk to. I think I might take him a Subway sandwich coupon when I go buy next month since they are next door to him

Must a 4457 be completed annually?? I didn’t think so. I took a rifle with a 3 year old 4457 on safari last year with no issues. In fact, when I asked the agent approving my second rifle he intimated it was valid indefinitely for each rifle.

Of course I’ve read on this forum many comments contradicting my experience. Does anyone have an excerpt of the actual policy/law??

 

[Flipper Dude]

T

Must a 4457 be completed annually?? I didn’t think so. I took a rifle with a 3 year old 4457 on safari last year with no issues. In fact, when I asked the agent approving my second rifle he intimated it was valid indefinitely for each rifle.

Of course I’ve read on this forum many comments contradicting my experience. Does anyone have an excerpt of the actual policy/law??

There is no policy/law. There is only the luck of the draw that the SAP guy doesn’t care that day that your 4457 has a different year on the signature line. Just gives him something else to ding you on. I wish to remove the possibility that he can be a PITA on that one.

Maybe there is a policy on paper in SA. Idk

 

[towserthemouser]

My guys are not exactly the same as your guy.......

First CBP sets up a system where you have to prove it's your gun or they get to tax you on it. Again.

Then they set up a system where you have to renew the paperwork instead of the old non-expiring form. We didn't ask for that; they did it.

Then they don't answer the phone. Ever.

Then they don't return messages. Four messages. Left over a period of a month. Polite messages.

So finally one day I just rolled up and buzzed on their security pad. They answered, and I explained I needed a 4457 filled out.

"You should have called first."

It makes you want to smack your head repeatedly.

 

[JimP]

Must a 4457 be completed annually?? I didn’t think so. I took a rifle with a 3 year old 4457 on safari last year with no issues. In fact, when I asked the agent approving my second rifle he intimated it was valid indefinitely for each rifle.

Of course I’ve read on this forum many comments contradicting my experience. Does anyone have an excerpt of the actual policy/law??

The South African Police consider your 4457 as a firearm license that must be renewed every year.

If you have managed to go through the SAPS 520 process 3 times with a old date consider yourself lucky.

 

[BJH65]

Must a 4457 be completed annually?? I didn’t think so. I took a rifle with a 3 year old 4457 on safari last year with no issues. In fact, when I asked the agent approving my second rifle he intimated it was valid indefinitely for each rifle.

Of course I’ve read on this forum many comments contradicting my experience. Does anyone have an excerpt of the actual policy/law??

It’s been listed by SA outfitters and other AH members that specifically for SA your 4457 should be signed and dated the same year you’re hunting in SA. They do not care if the form has no expiration in the U.S.

I recently hunted SA this past September 2024 and they didn’t even look at my 4457 just my SAPS 520 form. I used Gracey Travel and their man Bruce on the ground in Johannesburg for the VIP gun permit service though. Personally I wouldn’t risk it if hunting SA, I would make sure my 4457 is signed and dated the same year I’m hunting there.

 

[Fixfire]

Yeah I used @riflepermits.com and breezed right through - money well spent!
As you may know, all paperwork is sent to them prior to travel. Perhaps they didn’t notice my “dated” 4457, or it didn’t/doesn’t matter……

 

[Hammergun]

I had a bad experience at BWI three years ago. Called ahead and when I got there was told that they had never heard of a 4457 and did not have the form. Luckily I had brought my own. No one knew what to do so finally a supervisor showed up who was pretty belligerent. He very reluctantly filled out my 4457. In red ink. South Africa requires black ink. He at first refused to fill it out again. I politely insisted and he relented.

I will say that my experience at BWI in 2018 was completely different. The staff was helpful and polite. During the Trump administration.

It makes me want to just use a camp rifle from now on. I hate having to politely beg a government employee to do their job.

 

[towserthemouser]

If I understand this correctly, we have two different governments working at cross purposes here.

The US CBP doesn't care about you importing your gun into RSA or anywhere else. What they care about is when you bring your gun BACK into the US. They want to know, did you buy this gun (or jewelry or other expensive item) while you were abroad, and we need to charge you a customs duty or not. So they have a 4457, allowing you to prove that you already owned the gun, and you don't have to pay customs duty.

Then the government of a different country is using a USA form (not their own form) as a "firearms license." Whatever the hell that is. For an American, that's not even a thing. They are trying to use our 4457 form for their own purposes, for which it was never designed. And if you don't make them happy, you can have some unpleasant consequences in a foreign country, with potentially corrupt local officials who are perhaps ignorant of the above facts, but who have awesome authority over you in that moment. So you don't dare give them an excuse to ding you.

The CBP guys that I dealt with were clearly very frustrated by the whole thing, they made reference to "other governments, using OUR form, for the wrong purpose."

The result is that traveling hunters AND our CBP officers are in the middle. The hunters show up at the CBP office every dang year needing the same dang form filled out again for the same dang gun, for the same dang foreign government. In effect, the RSA guys are manufacturing unnecessary and repetitive work for the USA CBP guys (and the hunters). I don't blame them for being frustrated.

I wonder if the South African PH association could/should lobby with their government to fix this. I suppose if they want to use a non-expiring 4457 to verify that you are the owner of the firearm, I can understand that. But to repeat it every single year for the same gun? Nah.

 

[RR 314]

Man, I fly out of the people's republic of Austin, Texas. It is refreshing that the folks handling the 4457s are competent and actually get a kick out of seeing big bores. Easy like Sunday morning.

 

[Russ16]

If I understand this correctly, we have two different governments working at cross purposes here.

The US CBP doesn't care about you importing your gun into RSA or anywhere else. What they care about is when you bring your gun BACK into the US. They want to know, did you buy this gun (or jewelry or other expensive item) while you were abroad, and we need to charge you a customs duty or not. So they have a 4457, allowing you to prove that you already owned the gun, and you don't have to pay customs duty.

Then the government of a different country is using a USA form (not their own form) as a "firearms license." Whatever the hell that is. For an American, that's not even a thing. They are trying to use our 4457 form for their own purposes, for which it was never designed. And if you don't make them happy, you can have some unpleasant consequences in a foreign country, with potentially corrupt local officials who are perhaps ignorant of the above facts, but who have awesome authority over you in that moment. So you don't dare give them an excuse to ding you.

The CBP guys that I dealt with were clearly very frustrated by the whole thing, they made reference to "other governments, using OUR form, for the wrong purpose."

The result is that traveling hunters AND our CBP officers are in the middle. The hunters show up at the CBP office every dang year needing the same dang form filled out again for the same dang gun, for the same dang foreign government. In effect, the RSA guys are manufacturing unnecessary and repetitive work for the USA CBP guys (and the hunters). I don't blame them for being frustrated.

I wonder if the South African PH association could/should lobby with their government to fix this. I suppose if they want to use a non-expiring 4457 to verify that you are the owner of the firearm, I can understand that. But to repeat it every single year for the same gun? Nah.

I’m not sure what the problem is with just getting a new one every year. There is not restriction on how many you can get for a particular gun.

I’ve gotten different ones for the same gun in the same year. Traveling with two guns they put them both on the 4457. Later in the year I was traveling with the single gun and didn’t want any confusion why I was coming home with one gun instead of two so got another one.

 

[Fixfire]

If I understand this correctly, we have two different governments working at cross purposes here.

The US CBP doesn't care about you importing your gun into RSA or anywhere else. What they care about is when you bring your gun BACK into the US. They want to know, did you buy this gun (or jewelry or other expensive item) while you were abroad, and we need to charge you a customs duty or not. So they have a 4457, allowing you to prove that you already owned the gun, and you don't have to pay customs duty.

Then the government of a different country is using a USA form (not their own form) as a "firearms license." Whatever the hell that is. For an American, that's not even a thing. They are trying to use our 4457 form for their own purposes, for which it was never designed. And if you don't make them happy, you can have some unpleasant consequences in a foreign country, with potentially corrupt local officials who are perhaps ignorant of the above facts, but who have awesome authority over you in that moment. So you don't dare give them an excuse to ding you.

The CBP guys that I dealt with were clearly very frustrated by the whole thing, they made reference to "other governments, using OUR form, for the wrong purpose."

The result is that traveling hunters AND our CBP officers are in the middle. The hunters show up at the CBP office every dang year needing the same dang form filled out again for the same dang gun, for the same dang foreign government. In effect, the RSA guys are manufacturing unnecessary and repetitive work for the USA CBP guys (and the hunters). I don't blame them for being frustrated.

I wonder if the South African PH association could/should lobby with their government to fix this. I suppose if they want to use a non-expiring 4457 to verify that you are the owner of the firearm, I can understand that. But to repeat it every single year for the same gun? Nah.

That’s always been my understanding - 4457 is used to get your rifle BACK. Never knew it was required to get into RSA. Yet again, I always have used a service.

 

[Russ16]

That’s always been my understanding - 4457 is used to get your rifle BACK. Never knew it was required to get into RSA. Yet again, I always have used a service.

My understanding is RSA requires you show your firearms license from your home country. We don’t have one in the US so we convinced them to consider the 4457 to be a firearms license.

They aren’t going to remove the requirement of seeing your license just because we don’t have one. So our choice is let them treat the 4457 as a license, or create a license here in the US, or don’t take guns to the RSA. I don’t think anyone would like the second two options.

It is probably only because of the economic impact of US hunters that they squint at our non-license and pretend it is one.

Of a country didn’t require a drivers license would we just say oh that I’m your country doesn’t require it so here are the keys to your rental car. Not likely.

 

[BJH65]

If I understand this correctly, we have two different governments working at cross purposes here.

The US CBP doesn't care about you importing your gun into RSA or anywhere else. What they care about is when you bring your gun BACK into the US. They want to know, did you buy this gun (or jewelry or other expensive item) while you were abroad, and we need to charge you a customs duty or not. So they have a 4457, allowing you to prove that you already owned the gun, and you don't have to pay customs duty.

Then the government of a different country is using a USA form (not their own form) as a "firearms license." Whatever the hell that is. For an American, that's not even a thing. They are trying to use our 4457 form for their own purposes, for which it was never designed. And if you don't make them happy, you can have some unpleasant consequences in a foreign country, with potentially corrupt local officials who are perhaps ignorant of the above facts, but who have awesome authority over you in that moment. So you don't dare give them an excuse to ding you.

The CBP guys that I dealt with were clearly very frustrated by the whole thing, they made reference to "other governments, using OUR form, for the wrong purpose."

The result is that traveling hunters AND our CBP officers are in the middle. The hunters show up at the CBP office every dang year needing the same dang form filled out again for the same dang gun, for the same dang foreign government. In effect, the RSA guys are manufacturing unnecessary and repetitive work for the USA CBP guys (and the hunters). I don't blame them for being frustrated.

I wonder if the South African PH association could/should lobby with their government to fix this. I suppose if they want to use a non-expiring 4457 to verify that you are the owner of the firearm, I can understand that. But to repeat it every single year for the same gun? Nah.

Agreed, all rather silly. Unfortunately, we must play by the rules of our host country where things are done “differently.” Thankfully the CBP in OKC are really nice and it’s no problem at all to swing buy and get it signed and stamped.

 

[sgt_zim]

I’m not sure what the problem is with just getting a new one every year. There is not restriction on how many you can get for a particular gun.

I’ve gotten different ones for the same gun in the same year. Traveling with two guns they put them both on the 4457. Later in the year I was traveling with the single gun and didn’t want any confusion why I was coming home with one gun instead of two so got another one.

In big cities, like Houston for example, it's a giant PITA to drive to the customs office that's near IAH. There are several customs offices within Houston, but that's the only 1 where you can get a 4457 stamped. It's a 45-75 minute drive, in heavy Houston traffic, to get there, and the same going home. Houston traffic starts to lighten up around 7PM, and starts at around 6AM.

 

[kdenn]

Wife and I have used CBP at Louisville and Nashville. Totally different experience. At Louisville carry firearms inside, wait for officer who is friendly, very safety oriented and inquisitive about our hunt. Paperwork filled out with couple copies made for us.
Nashville take firearms inside, push buzzer for assistance, state have rifles for inspection, told to immediately leave the building and wait by our vehicle. CBP officer comes outside to do the inspection. States her supervisor does not want guns inside. So I have 2 custom rifles to open and let her inspect in rear of my Subaru. Luckily a pleasant day without rain or snow.
The process is different depending upon where or when you go. Be nice for a bit of continuity.

 

[Russ16]

In big cities, like Houston for example, it's a giant PITA to drive to the customs office that's near IAH. There are several customs offices within Houston, but that's the only 1 where you can get a 4457 stamped. It's a 45-75 minute drive, in heavy Houston traffic, to get there, and the same going home. Houston traffic starts to lighten up around 7PM, and starts at around 6AM.

Yeah I have to drive close to an hour out to Dulles and withstand the glares of everyone in the airport when they see a gun case and get lectured by CBP.