Pig/hog damage to crops

[Datchew]

I have a good buddy 15 mins from my house on about 200 acres.
Whenever the weather is right we sit out and bow or rifle hunt pigs that venture near the corn feeders.

I occasionally eat the 30-50 lb sows but mostly just feed buzzards and coyotes.

He's 4th generation on the property and they stopped farming or running cattle because of pig disruption and damage. Including fences. Kinda sad.

Now we just try to keep em scarce enough to not run off the whitetail but it doesn't make a serious dent.

I do volunteer work for Texas youth hunt and some guiding out near uvalde and the owners say the same as was mentioned. Not worth the cost or risk to bring an army of hunters.
Out there, they're trying to conserve water for the deer and cattle.

The pigs are like tanks. Snares get ripped out along with half the fence.
Pretty amazing situation all around. Impressive critters.

I'm looking at going thermal this fall for the first time just for pig duty.

 

[RLL]

I grow milo in the Texas panhandle. Dekalb 3607 or 3707 is my favovorite. You’re prolly planting a forage sorghum variety, any grain variety should be short with bigger heads. Big thing is keeping a low rate, in our drought stricken area 1.5 pounds per acre seems to be ideal for dry land. Thinner crop will make up for it with each plant producing more and bigger heads

3707 has worked decently for me in the rolling plains at low rates as well given grass can be controlled with pre emergent and atrazine

 

[RLL]

I have a good buddy 15 mins from my house on about 200 acres.
Whenever the weather is right we sit out and bow or rifle hunt pigs that venture near the corn feeders.

I occasionally eat the 30-50 lb sows but mostly just feed buzzards and coyotes.

He's 4th generation on the property and they stopped farming or running cattle because of pig disruption and damage. Including fences. Kinda sad.

Now we just try to keep em scarce enough to not run off the whitetail but it doesn't make a serious dent.

I do volunteer work for Texas youth hunt and some guiding out near uvalde and the owners say the same as was mentioned. Not worth the cost or risk to bring an army of hunters.
Out there, they're trying to conserve water for the deer and cattle.

The pigs are like tanks. Snares get ripped out along with half the fence.
Pretty amazing situation all around. Impressive critters.

I'm looking at going thermal this fall for the first time just for pig duty.

Thermal is fun and opportune moments are satisfying! Putting in the work all night…good and bad…is still a lot of work and time that feels hopeless in the long run

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

How so? The most effective hunting for them is at night, over bait. Or with a thermal on open fields at night. Suppressor? Even better.

The alternatives don't seem great. Crop damage, poison with collateral damage, expensive trapping services, etc.

How much of a dent in the population do the hunters make? I guess who knows?

Hunting them at night over bait is extremely ineffective if not the least effective way to kill hogs compared to trapping, chopper, poison, or running them down in buggies. @buck wild doesn't want 1-3 pigs shot per sit, per hunter. He doesn't want the other pigs in the sounder educated. He wants an entire sounder wiped out at once. To do this at night with NVG's and Thermals and kill more than 1-2 each you need multiple experienced shooters spread out across the field who are disciplined in how/when they shoot so they keep pushing the hogs back and forth across the field to one another instead of towards the opposite end of the field.

I live in Texas, have lived all over the Northeast and Southeast as well. It blew my mind when I first moved and struggled to get permission for places to hunt hogs. I came from somewhere that I could give up 4-8 weekends a year doing hay, chopping firewood, or mending fences in exchange for permission to hunt some pretty large areas. I completely understand why a landowner or rancher doesn't want to give permission to someone outside of family and close friends to hunt their land. Most southern states don't have statues that protect the landowners from liability, like states in other parts of the country. I'm 100% in support of a land owner or rancher not allowing permission to hunters on their property if they choose. There are a ton of slobs out there (I think there's more of them then good hunters today). Where I personally draw the line is when tax dollars are used to alleviate their issue where a landowner isn't allowing hunting and that's a slippery slope of how much hunting, how many people per X acres, etc. But again that's just my opinion, I see hogs as a cost of doing business in certain areas.

 

[HookMeUpII]

Hunting them at night over bait is extremely ineffective if not the least effective way to kill hogs compared to trapping, chopper, poison, or running them down in buggies. @buck wild doesn't want 1-3 pigs shot per sit, per hunter. He doesn't want the other pigs in the sounder educated. He wants an entire sounder wiped out at once. To do this at night with NVG's and Thermals and kill more than 1-2 each you need multiple experienced shooters spread out across the field who are disciplined in how/when they shoot so they keep pushing the hogs back and forth across the field to one another instead of towards the opposite end of the field.

I live in Texas, have lived all over the Northeast and Southeast as well. It blew my mind when I first moved and struggled to get permission for places to hunt hogs. I came from somewhere that I could give up 4-8 weekends a year doing hay, chopping firewood, or mending fences in exchange for permission to hunt some pretty large areas. I completely understand why a landowner or rancher doesn't want to give permission to someone outside of family and close friends to hunt their land. Most southern states don't have statues that protect the landowners from liability, like states in other parts of the country. I'm 100% in support of a land owner or rancher not allowing permission to hunters on their property if they choose. There are a ton of slobs out there (I think there's more of them then good hunters today). Where I personally draw the line is when tax dollars are used to alleviate their issue where a landowner isn't allowing hunting and that's a slippery slope of how much hunting, how many people per X acres, etc. But again that's just my opinion, I see hogs as a cost of doing business in certain areas.

And yet the same results are achieved because:

"XYZ solution is inconvenient."
"XYZ solution is too expensive."
"XYZ solution is too much work."

So then what exactly is the solution? Maybe in the end, there is none? Maybe we need to settle for not elimination, but some meaningful reduction and management? The bottom line is we can't complain about something if we are at least unwilling to try and manage it.

Poison works but comes with collateral damage.
Hunting works (to a lesser extent) but comes with liability/risk.
Trapping works but comes with a lot of work and potential expense.

Being a business owner myself, you have to approach a problem sometimes from the angle that there is no one singular solution to solve the problem. New assets are down? Do we just throw a ton of overtime at it? No, you combine multiple solutions together to solve the issue. Ramp up marketing, ramp up branding, refresh and re-look at what you offer and at what cost, and obviously...work a little more.

We see this exact same thing in NJ with snow geese and deer. Couple years ago I spent 2 days knocking on doors trying to get some land to set for snow geese on in the western central part of the state. One guy seemed like he was like 75% there. We offered money. He said no thank you in the end, just don't feel comfortable, his cousin's-brothers-mother's-barber also hunted the field. We were literally watching a flock of 1000 dumping into the field behind his farm house as we talked. I left my number. 2 days later he called begging me to come because the cousin's-brothers-mother's-barber never showed and the flock lawn-mowered $3000 worth of winter wheat. I said "Sorry my friend, I can't. I have to work." Which was the truth. I'd have loved to have gone but I was taking time from my business, at my expense, to help him solve a problem, at that particular time.

But I think we seem to agree on one thing: tax dollars. I've gotten into the overgrazing of the elk before with someone. It's awesome that the state compensates the farmer but then it becomes "lets just take the money and call it a day." Really? How long is that going to float before the state at least asks the ranchers to meet them half way? Look how much landowner tags go for online. Why on earth wouldn't these ranchers try to link up with a guide to bring clients on the field? Buy the liability insurance. She's not my favorite on some issues, but look at Kristi Noem. The farm was almost gone and they saved it by opening an upland and waterfowl lodge and hunting business. I completely agree with you: Relying on the state tax dollars to mitigate the "pain" without at least trying to come up with a supplemental solution is wrong.

The real sad thing here is many of these situations can actually generate additional revenue to the landowner while simultaneously at least "managing" a problem. Helo hunts, night shoots with thermals, running dogs, etc. Then combine trapping and poison. Maybe if everyone does this, it will make a difference.

That's my thoughts. Maybe I am bias because I come from the hunting side, who knows.

 

[WAB]

Thankfully I don’t have them on my place. If I did I would use catch pens and hire someone to run them. The goal is to get the entire sounder in the pen and pop them all in the ear with a .22.

I’ve shot a lot of pigs at night with thermals. It’s fun, and we’re actually pretty good at it, but you will never eradicate them or even effectively control them this way.

 

[HookMeUpII]

Thankfully I don’t have them on my place. If I did I would use catch pens and hire someone to run them. The goal is to get the entire sounder in the pen and pop them all in the ear with a .22.

I’ve shot a lot of pigs at night with thermals. It’s fun, and we’re actually pretty good at it, but you will never eradicate them or even effectively control them this way.

No, but once again, why just rely on one solution? Why not monetize the problem?

Either way, it's a problem.

NJ actually did one thing right by eliminating them. We had them for a short period. State hired experts to trap them, killed the females, sterilized the males, sent them back out with GPS collars, and followed them back to all the groups and killed them all. That was the gist of it as it was relayed to me.

It was a very small problem at the start, though. Places like TX, OK, FL, GA, etc. it's well beyond that.

Now our bear problem? That's another story. It's maybe another year or two before they push south into the blueberry/cranberry belt here in NJ. Once that happens, it's going to be bad. Really bad. As it is 2 people have been eaten by them in recent years with 5-6x that many non-fatal attacks.

 

[buck wild]

I'm unaware of any govt program, or even "crop insurance" in Texas paying for either hog damage OR hog population control. I might be wrong about that but I've never heard it. Crop insurance is based on "natural damage", rain, either too little or too much, wind, hail etc.

Here is a short clip on a night hunt where we get the whole sounder and like @Mtn_Infantry says, it takes a skilled group of shooters to pull it off, The average recreational hunter will get a couple from this group at best.

I honestly think poison is the best chance, but again lots of things need to be worked out on that end to make it effective AND safe.

 

[Datchew]

The bottom line is we can't complain about something if we are at least unwilling to try and manage it.

I enjoyed your post. Especially this part jumped out at me.
Despite your sentence being correct... it sure seems to happen a helluva lot everywhere I've ever been.
Like my old German grandmother used to say. "Common sense doesn't appear to be quite so common."

 

[WAB]

I'm unaware of any govt program, or even "crop insurance" in Texas paying for either hog damage OR hog population control. I might be wrong about that but I've never heard it. Crop insurance is based on "natural damage", rain, either too little or too much, wind, hail etc.

Here is a short clip on a night hunt where we get the whole sounder and like @Mtn_Infantry says, it takes a skilled group of shooters to pull it off, The average recreational hunter will get a couple from this group at best.

I honestly think poison is the best chance, but again lots of things need to be worked out on that end to make it effective AND safe.

That’s good shooting! It takes some practice with thermals and a good trigger to be able to pull that off.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

And yet the same results are achieved because:

"XYZ solution is inconvenient."
"XYZ solution is too expensive."
"XYZ solution is too much work."

So then what exactly is the solution? Maybe in the end, there is none? Maybe we need to settle for not elimination, but some meaningful reduction and management? The bottom line is we can't complain about something if we are at least unwilling to try and manage it.

Poison works but comes with collateral damage.
Hunting works (to a lesser extent) but comes with liability/risk.
Trapping works but comes with a lot of work and potential expense.

Being a business owner myself, you have to approach a problem sometimes from the angle that there is no one singular solution to solve the problem. New assets are down? Do we just throw a ton of overtime at it? No, you combine multiple solutions together to solve the issue. Ramp up marketing, ramp up branding, refresh and re-look at what you offer and at what cost, and obviously...work a little more.

We see this exact same thing in NJ with snow geese and deer. Couple years ago I spent 2 days knocking on doors trying to get some land to set for snow geese on in the western central part of the state. One guy seemed like he was like 75% there. We offered money. He said no thank you in the end, just don't feel comfortable, his cousin's-brothers-mother's-barber also hunted the field. We were literally watching a flock of 1000 dumping into the field behind his farm house as we talked. I left my number. 2 days later he called begging me to come because the cousin's-brothers-mother's-barber never showed and the flock lawn-mowered $3000 worth of winter wheat. I said "Sorry my friend, I can't. I have to work." Which was the truth. I'd have loved to have gone but I was taking time from my business, at my expense, to help him solve a problem, at that particular time.

But I think we seem to agree on one thing: tax dollars. I've gotten into the overgrazing of the elk before with someone. It's awesome that the state compensates the farmer but then it becomes "lets just take the money and call it a day." Really? How long is that going to float before the state at least asks the ranchers to meet them half way? Look how much landowner tags go for online. Why on earth wouldn't these ranchers try to link up with a guide to bring clients on the field? Buy the liability insurance. She's not my favorite on some issues, but look at Kristi Noem. The farm was almost gone and they saved it by opening an upland and waterfowl lodge and hunting business. I completely agree with you: Relying on the state tax dollars to mitigate the "pain" without at least trying to come up with a supplemental solution is wrong.

The real sad thing here is many of these situations can actually generate additional revenue to the landowner while simultaneously at least "managing" a problem. Helo hunts, night shoots with thermals, running dogs, etc. Then combine trapping and poison. Maybe if everyone does this, it will make a difference.

That's my thoughts. Maybe I am bias because I come from the hunting side, who knows.

You're ignoring the rate at which hogs breed and the education aspect where there's already an established issue. Its the same reason in Zim and other parts of Africa they'd crop the entire family group of elephants. As a hunter, and someone who hog hunts regularly (when I have time) its a great recreational activity but it won't make a dent in the population or curbing crop damage, even if a ranch runs commercial hunts 7 days a week. Hog hunting with Thermals/NVG's is NOT an effective tool to eliminate the problem and has a very 1 sided benefit to the hunter.

Poison is likely the most effective method, but with the side effects many ranchers won't do this and as such it'll be a temporary solution. You'll get at most a couple years of reprieve then natural dispersion that all animals have to prevent interbreeding will have a new population back on your door steps. This regularly happens with trapping and help operations. They get the problem under control for 6mo or so and then it pops back up with new groups of pigs moving in.

If there's tree cover trapping will be the next most effective. We used to do this on my lease in South Alabama with great effectiveness. We'd also run dogs for hogs outside of deer season and normally to catch/kill the older smarter educated boars that didn't run with a sounder. We regularly trapped entire sounders of 15-50 pigs and dispatched them quickly with a .22LR, .22WMR, or a suppressed AR. The key was using large round pens with remote trigger drops and not traps that relied upon the pig tripping a switch or plate while rooting.

Open areas Helo hunting will be as effective of better than traps but comes at a much higher cost. You need to pay per hour the bird is running which is about 20% of the cost of a good remote controlled trap. In many areas of Texas where they helo hunt, they've knocked the pigs back a good bit and aren't seeing the 100-200 pig nights any more. I've heard of several well known ones having days where they don't even see/shoot a pig anymore while flying for a couple hours.

Can you monetize hog hunting? Absolutely but then the cost to hog hunt is going to continue to climb due to the rate at which they breed and the amount of damage they cause to crops. It'll also impact the cost of deer hunts as too many pigs on a ranch will start to impact the deer population or turkey population which are both already monetized. It's cause and effect.

As you showed in your other post, hiring private trappers (which comes at great cost) is how your home state curbed its fledgling hog problem and even at that you've shown it was only temporary. NJ didn't leave it up to the weekend hunter like yourself who's hunting for recreation.

I do agree with the last part of your sentence about complaining if you're not willing to do something about it. I don't know many ranchers and landowners who don't at least try to do something about it. I personally know 1 who lets me hunt. I have 3 others who will invite me to hunt when they're out there (I think they just want to borrow my guns, thermals, and NVG's). Two have even told me if I'm driving by and see a hog in the front pasture to pull off, shoot it, and text them. I'm still waiting for this to happen. On one of those pieces we've completely hammered the pigs, so much that they've gone almost a year with just getting the occasional trail cam picture of lone singles at a feeder or along the river. We had a shoot or two like the one @buck wild posted

 

[HookMeUpII]

I'm unaware of any govt program, or even "crop insurance" in Texas paying for either hog damage OR hog population control. I might be wrong about that but I've never heard it. Crop insurance is based on "natural damage", rain, either too little or too much, wind, hail etc.

Here is a short clip on a night hunt where we get the whole sounder and like @Mtn_Infantry says, it takes a skilled group of shooters to pull it off, The average recreational hunter will get a couple from this group at best.

I honestly think poison is the best chance, but again lots of things need to be worked out on that end to make it effective AND safe.

Not to my knowledge for hogs, but with elk in other areas. The elk might be a more slippery slope because they are more so coveted game. No one has any love for the hogs. Which is actually beneficial to the problem. No one would bat an eye at a dead tractor trailer load with bullets all right behind the ear.

That is very, very good shooting. For sure not something that can be easily replicated.

 

[HookMeUpII]

You're ignoring the rate at which hogs breed and the education aspect where there's already an established issue. Its the same reason in Zim and other parts of Africa they'd crop the entire family group of elephants. As a hunter, and someone who hog hunts regularly (when I have time) its a great recreational activity but it won't make a dent in the population or curbing crop damage, even if a ranch runs commercial hunts 7 days a week. Hog hunting with Thermals/NVG's is NOT an effective tool to eliminate the problem and has a very 1 sided benefit to the hunter.

Poison is likely the most effective method, but with the side effects many ranchers won't do this and as such it'll be a temporary solution. You'll get at most a couple years of reprieve then natural dispersion that all animals have to prevent interbreeding will have a new population back on your door steps. This regularly happens with trapping and help operations. They get the problem under control for 6mo or so and then it pops back up with new groups of pigs moving in.

If there's tree cover trapping will be the next most effective. We used to do this on my lease in South Alabama with great effectiveness. We'd also run dogs for hogs outside of deer season and normally to catch/kill the older smarter educated boars that didn't run with a sounder. We regularly trapped entire sounders of 15-50 pigs and dispatched them quickly with a .22LR, .22WMR, or a suppressed AR. The key was using large round pens with remote trigger drops and not traps that relied upon the pig tripping a switch or plate while rooting.

Open areas Helo hunting will be as effective of better than traps but comes at a much higher cost. You need to pay per hour the bird is running which is about 20% of the cost of a good remote controlled trap. In many areas of Texas where they helo hunt, they've knocked the pigs back a good bit and aren't seeing the 100-200 pig nights any more. I've heard of several well known ones having days where they don't even see/shoot a pig anymore while flying for a couple hours.

Can you monetize hog hunting? Absolutely but then the cost to hog hunt is going to continue to climb due to the rate at which they breed and the amount of damage they cause to crops. It'll also impact the cost of deer hunts as too many pigs on a ranch will start to impact the deer population or turkey population which are both already monetized. It's cause and effect.

As you showed in your other post, hiring private trappers (which comes at great cost) is how your home state curbed its fledgling hog problem and even at that you've shown it was only temporary. NJ didn't leave it up to the weekend hunter like yourself who's hunting for recreation.

I do agree with the last part of your sentence about complaining if you're not willing to do something about it. I don't know many ranchers and landowners who don't at least try to do something about it. I personally know 1 who lets me hunt. I have 3 others who will invite me to hunt when they're out there (I think they just want to borrow my guns, thermals, and NVG's). Two have even told me if I'm driving by and see a hog in the front pasture to pull off, shoot it, and text them. I'm still waiting for this to happen. On one of those pieces we've completely hammered the pigs, so much that they've gone almost a year with just getting the occasional trail cam picture of lone singles at a feeder or along the river. We had a shoot or two like the one @buck wild posted

I really don't disagree with anything you said other than I still think ranchers have to try. Seems like some of the methods do work. None of them are perfect or great. You said it yourself though, where they are helo hunting them the population is greatly reduced. The state should meet the hunters half way and revise the liability on the landowners.

Maybe it's the businessman in me but my logic is: monetize hunting which then pays for the traps/trappers and supplement with poison in controlled areas. Multiple, synergistic solutions, to the problem.

As for NJ, that was their only option. NJ, being a ridiculous state, has no discharge ordinances all over. You could actually hunt them for a short period of time when they acknowledged they were here. Problem was, a couple got clipped on WMA's and being the smart animals they are they moved off to private property like golf courses, woods near industrial parks, and off limit state forest areas. It was the only option. I won't even begin to pretend it's near that easy in massive expanses like TX, OK, etc.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

I really don't disagree with anything you said other than I still think ranchers have to try. Seems like some of the methods do work. None of them are perfect or great. You said it yourself though, where they are helo hunting them the population is greatly reduced. The state should meet the hunters half way and revise the liability on the landowners.

Maybe it's the businessman in me but my logic is: monetize hunting which then pays for the traps/trappers and supplement with poison in controlled areas. Multiple, synergistic solutions, to the problem.

As for NJ, that was their only option. NJ, being a ridiculous state, has no discharge ordinances all over. You could actually hunt them for a short period of time when they acknowledged they were here. Problem was, a couple got clipped on WMA's and being the smart animals they are they moved off to private property like golf courses, woods near industrial parks, and off limit state forest areas. It was the only option. I won't even begin to pretend it's near that easy in massive expanses like TX, OK, etc.

I’m familiar with NJ and the timing of it. I spent a bit of time in parts of NJ and remember the issues they had with the bear hunts, whitetail access, and hogs when they first started to pop up. Still have several friends who live there.

Most ranchers have already tried hunting them as you describe. Hogs in Texas aren’t a new problem and back in the day, leases weren’t what they are now. It was common to have permission for no fee, or a VERY small fee.

Helo hunting works because they can move with the sounder and even ahead of them turning the group back across the field allowing the shooters more time on target to kill larger numbers, or the entire sounder. A big issue with helo hunting is the pigs get wise and move to neighboring properties, just like you saw in NJ. I can tell you with 100% certainty when we had those really good shoots, we didn’t wipe them all out, a few got away. All we did was educate those few remaining pigs enough to know not to come to that area. We’ll scan the neighbors or across the creek and see pigs most nights but the damage and activity in that area of the property is now almost nonexistent. Most every pig we’ve shot there has been a lone boar or pair of boars.

 

[buck wild]

Well one more down this evening. Only 9,999 more to go . Tgat makes 72 for me personally since Sept 1.
Looks like they might harvest soon and we’ll hit thermals hard several times right after combines get done. The mosquitos ate giant and plentiful right now

Couple more field pics

 

[tigris115]

I feel like corral traps work the best since you can immediately capture a whole group of pigs instantly