PHASA Captive Bred Lion Hunting

[BRICKBURN]

Thanks Richard. Good to have the clarification.

 

[geoff rath]

As an aside on PHASA and their involvement in this issue (CBL hunting), switch over to the thread (Timbo) on the scam, he suffered, and PHASA response thereto . . .

 

[Royal27]

http://dscnewscenter.org/2018/01/dsc-position-on-captive-bred-lion-hunting/

Dallas Safari Club Position on Captive Bred Lion Hunting
Few animals in Africa, or anywhere, are as iconic as the African lion. As hunters we understand the benefits of lion hunting. Dallas Safari Club has stated, and firmly believes, that in the fight to save lions, hunters are their best allies.

In January 2013, Dallas Safari Club announced its definition of the ideal huntable male lion. In May 2013, an international assembly of conservationists representing 84 different countries adopted the African lion hunting policy modeled after that of Dallas Safari Club. That policy is supported by extensive scientific research that shows, clearly, that hunting older male lions has no negative effect on populations.

In South Africa, captive bred lion hunting is legal. Several professional hunting associations and hunting conservation organizations have commented on the negative impact that captive bred lion hunting has on them and the hunting community in general. We recognize the value of ranching for wildlife. However, to date there is no evidence or scientific research to suggest that captive bred lion hunting contributes to the conservation of wild lion. Under current conditions, the United States Fish and Wildlife Service does not permit the import of captive bred lion trophies from South Africa.

Dallas Safari Club has a responsibility to support and encourage ethical hunting practices, even where ethical practices do not align with what is legally permitted – a principle that helps to define Dallas Safari Club. We have given careful consideration to the arguments and rationale of those who support the practice and those who oppose it – arguments made by respected members of the hunting community on both sides of the issue.

After a thorough analysis and deliberation, the Board of Dallas Safari Club has concluded that the practice of captive bred lion hunting is not a practice that is in keeping with its values of ethical and fair chase hunting. Therefore, Dallas Safari Club does not support the practice of captive bred lion hunting.

 

[edward]

captive or wild has nothing to do with fair chase or not,lion or plains game.the method either one is hunted is the determining factor,period.guess texas just got a death blow from D.S.C.all african animals there are farm raised.

 

[Therack]

Nearly all animals in South Africa are captive bred. If DSC doesn’t support captive bred lion hunting then they don’t support captive bred hunting of any animal in South Africa. I agree with @edward, its the method of the hunt, not the breeding.

 

[Royal27]

So @edward and @Therack I'm asking this question for clarity of your position, not to argue your position one way or the other.

As examples, are you supportive of whitetail or kudu being raised from birth to adult in a small enclosure/breeding pen of a couple of acres while being raised on pellets, darted, and then released as the only animal(s) of their species in a larger enclosure, and then hunted 96 hours after their release?

 

[SafariA]

Unfortunate event. I am not sure if they realise the impact of their statement. They unfortumately also stepped into the ethical trap.

USFW already indicated that a substantial financial contribution would be seen as an enhancement finding on CBL or Ranch Lions. So if I pay my $5000 or whatever the amount might be that will make me ethical ..... because it will enhance the the wild lion population . A poor choice of words in my opinion .... And for the record this time it is my opinion. Each Organization are entitled to their own stance . No problem with that. Just think this is going to have serious concequences for other sectors ...... NZ , Texas , and as already mentioned all of South Africa.

Fair chase is something like ethics within ..... also not the same to everybody....

I hope this will not end up in a really big split in the Hunting Comunity.

Happy Hunting

PS . Phasa will be joining the Forum on a permanent basis shortly .... African Shortly ..... that might be a week or 2 !

 

[Royal27]

PS . Phasa will be joining the Forum on a permanent basis shortly .... African Shortly ..... that might be a week or 2 !

I don't care which side of the CBL debate you're on, that's funny right there!

 

[Therack]

As examples, are you supportive of whitetail or kudu being raised from birth to adult in a small enclosure/breeding pen of a couple of acres while being raised on pellets, darted, and then released as the only animal(s) of their species in a larger enclosure, and then hunted 96 hours after their release?

I’m sure it happens more often than anyone would like to admit.
Should all captive bred hunting be shut down because of a few bad apples?

 

[Royal27]

I’m sure it happens more often than anyone would like to admit.
Should all captive bred hunting be shut down because of a few bad apples?

I'm sure it happens to, but not what I asked. I asked if you support that specific situation?

I think its fairly safe to say with CBL that the majority of the time its a quick release and hunt of a pen raised animal, but there are most likely exceptions.

I don't think its safe to say that with whitetail or kudu that it happens a majority of the time, although it certainly happens. Point being, comparing CBL and general hooved animal high fence hunting isn't apples to apples. and again, not arguing the right or wrong, but they aren't the same.

 

[SafariA]

I'm sure it happens to, but not what I asked. I asked if you support that specific situation?

I think its fairly safe to say with CBL that the majority of the time its a quick release and hunt of a pen raised animal, but there are most likely exceptions.

I don't think its safe to say that with whitetail or kudu that it happens a majority of the time, although it certainly happens. Point being, comparing CBL and general hooved animal high fence hunting isn't apples to apples. and again, not arguing the right or wrong, but they aren't the same.

I just want to re itterate. By Law the release period is 96 hrs. The resolution taken by Phasa members is a min of 30 days on only 8 accreditted properties. We also do not support the min by law or hunting on any of the properties besudes the 8 listed.

 

[edward]

So @edward and @Therack I'm asking this question for clarity of your position, not to argue your position one way or the other.

As examples, are you supportive of whitetail or kudu being raised from birth to adult in a small enclosure/breeding pen of a couple of acres while being raised on pellets, darted, and then released as the only animal(s) of their species in a larger enclosure, and then hunted 96 hours after their release?

what part of fair chase dont you understand?what you describe above is not fair chase

 

[Royal27]

what part of fair chase dont you understand?what you describe above is not fair chase

Well, I did ask for clarity.

 

[billc]

I think a good question to ask people would be do you think the anti's will give up there fight if we give in on cbl.

All the talk is we gain by taking a stance to stop it. But then some of same guys will go hunt some raised elk or stag and enter in there record book. No one animal is worth special treatment. Either raised is ok or it is not.

A 30 day release period seems more then ok to me. I know that lion will be killing on its own with in the week and learn the lay of the land to. Is it perfect , no but all the guys with the it is not hunting need to take there ethics and use them on there own hunts. There is nothing going to be saved by ending cbl or anything being raised to be hunted.

We all want new hunters to join our ranks. Problem is there is not enough tags or land to handle more hunters without the raising of animals anymore. Hard to get people to like something when they cant get a tag to hunt. Times are changing and the idea everything must be wild or your not hunting is behind us. We either start sticking together and use our ethics for our own hunts or loose the battle.

 

[BRICKBURN]

.................. We also do not support the min by law or hunting on any of the properties besides the 8 listed.

Why the restriction to those 8 facilities? Are there no other facilities in South Africa that meet PHASA criteria?

 

[SafariA]

Why the restriction to those 8 facilities? Are there no other facilities in South Africa that meet PHASA criteria?

Only 8 facilties have been accreditted by independant Assesors. The Assesors are a panel of people . I can try and get more info about the accreditation process. This should be in the SAPA document .

 

[SafariA]

I guess more can be accreditted should they comply but currently as of 2013 only 8 have been accreditted .

 

[BRICKBURN]

Only 8 facilties have been accreditted by independant Assesors. The Assesors are a panel of people . I can try and get more info about the process .

I’d appreciate that being made clear here. Thanks

 

[SafariA]

I’d appreciate that being made clear here. Thanks

http://www.sapredators.co.za/p24/sa...edator-association-accreditation-process.html

https://docs.google.com/gview?embed...ccreditationofLionHuntingDestinations2016.pdf

 

[Royal27]

http://www.sapredators.co.za/p24/sa...edator-association-accreditation-process.html

https://docs.google.com/gview?embed...ccreditationofLionHuntingDestinations2016.pdf

I'd read this before, but what I hadn't caught is that the accreditation is only for SAPA members. So the accreditation isn't based solely on qualifications, but also on membership.

Interesting.