Package hunt vs. Day rate + trophy fees, which do you prefer?

[James.Grage]

To all:

I see Bigred started a forum and has not come back to provide additional thinking or guidance to his initial post...Could it be that he jumped the gun and signed the contract and is now looking for ways to get out of it?

Individuals who book a safari and then start asking for help. Are popping up on this Forum time after time.

Ask your questions before you book a hunt. Everyone has opinions and while Bigred is paying the bills for his safari. The question is being asked after an agreement has been booked.

Asking questions like this is after the fact is liken to closing and locking the barn door after the horses are out, so to say. It is too late in the game to make a difference.

If Bigred has signed an agreement to go on a safari with XYZ Safari company the agreement is in place that was reviewed before he signed.

Trying to renegotiate the contract after Bigred has a signed one in place, is not the place anyone on this forum would like to be in.

Bigred

I am actually going on a hybrid fee structured hunt where the trophy fees cover all of our typical safari cost. As such, this outfitters trophy fees are about 20% higher than his competitors, but there are no daily rates. To ensure some profitability he does require a non-refundable deposit of $1500.

I'm not sure how good of a deal this is, or wether or not package hunts or the traditional day rate + trophy fees is the most economical. Anybody have any opinion? Also, has anybody ever negotiated trophy fees or negotiated a package price on 3 to 5 animals? Thanks much.

 

[Calhoun]

i agree with garybird as far as the first or 2nd time hunter the package deal is a great way to go as you have no trophies and you have a little more discounted hunt. if you have a reputable outfitter you should end up with nice trophies. i did and that is why i'm in favor of package deals!

 

[Rocco]

Rocco,

I strongly disagree with you. Your proposed payment system sounds far too much like your buying the animals. The people I work with in Africa are selling a hunting experience in an area that holds good numbers of the animals a client is interested in and they will provide whatever is necessary to make the hunt as successful as possible. The daily rate covers all that. If you are lucky and shoot big stuff that's great but if you don't that's hunting.

I can't imagine a safari operator offering a hunt like you proposed. Even in the very best of areas you could hit a very unlucky streak meaning that the safari operator didn't get paid at all and that's not going to happen. For the safari operator to stay in business has to be assured of a reasonable profit regardless of what the client actually shoots.

I agree but how does the client protects himself from bad outfitters that promise him the world and gives references of the PH's best friends.

 

[bigred]

Alright, alright now. Thanks to everyone for their thoughts. To clarify some things, I am going on safari, my flight leaves in about 10 days. I am on a daily rate + trophy fee schedule, but as I wrote originally, it is blended together. Having seen many different pricing structures, and being new to African hunting, I am a bit wary about the best fee schedule. I knew you all would have many points and suggestions so I am thankful for that.

I of course will report back after my hunt, which is a plains game hunt in S. Africa. Thanks again to everyone who chimed in.

 

[driehoek]

This is an issue!
Which ever they do. Most is a maths thing.
We also like to ask the client which trophies he would like to take, how many days he would like to hunt and
compile a package for the particular hunter or group of hunters.
The animals he does not take are refunded. We charge a deposit but all other is paid after the hunt.
I think a deposit is only fair to both!
If you would like to find out more about us please feel free to email me for references.
Have a lovely hunting week-end

 

[driehoek]

Did you get what you wanted?
Where did you hunt?

 

[lwaters]

I like the day rate and trophy fee. If you see a eye popping trophy say an eland you can take him and give something else up if you want to stay in your budget.

 

[Code4]

In response to one (later) part of BigReds original post, everything is negotiable and I mean everything. Bargain hard, be prepared to compromise and always ask 'what can you do for me ?'

Price lists, day rates and some fees should only be seen as a guide.

I look on visiting Africa and hunting there as an experience and am not all that concerned about trophy fees. A trophy for me is nice to get, but not essential. In that respect package deals hold a lot of value to me as the consumer.

I was offered five cull blue wildebeast for basically day rates once and would have gone ahead with it except the conservancy changed hands.

Decide on one key target (pun intended) animal and then build your hunt around getting that species.

 

[Tom071]

My 3 cents is you should work only on trophy fee.
By that I mean, you tell your PH that you expect to harvest only trophy animals. Both you and the PH should determine what is the size of each trophy that you are looking for. Come to a agreement on size and price.
You might have to pay a little more for each trophy game that you get but you will be totally satisfy with your dream hunt.
The reason for this route is that some PH/ outfitters across the world will tell you anything in order to sell you a hunt . I believe that if the PH/ outfitter is telling you the truth about what sizes of trophies that he has in his concession, then he should not disagree with this price structure. If he does, then I would back off from going to his place.
PH/ outfitters don't seem to understand that the hunters that decide to come to Africa for a dream hunt has to take into consideration that the cost of the flight, the time off from work, purchase of gun, ammo and other hunting items for the hunters trip sometimes cost more than the daily fee and trophy fee combined.
I speak as a hunter that experienced both the good outfitters and the other kind of outfitters.

So if lady Luck plays agains you and you don't shoot an animal that doesnt meet your trophy quality. The PH is just out for all his time and expensies, or would you still pay the trophy fee without having shot your trophy?

 

[joester]

I too think a daily fee rate is the way to go, most times. List, IN ORDER of preference/desire, the animals you'd like to shoot & discuss the options/possibilities with your PH. On my 1st hunt i really wanted to start with a big ugly warthog but I was never shown one; instead I was shown herds of larger, more expensive species...When I was hesitant to "take" any of these, prices were dropped, there in the field, by several hundred dollars. I never did see a mature warthog but lost count of zebra, eland, oryx, etc. . I was disapointed but I am structuring my next hunt differently.

 

[enysse]

I too think a daily fee rate is the way to go, most times. List, IN ORDER, the animals you'd like to shoot & discuss the options/possibilities with your PH. On my 1st hunt i really wanted to start with a big ugly warthog but I was never shown one; instead I was shown herds of larger, more expensive species...When I was hesitant to "take" any of these, prices were dropped, there in the field, by several hundred dollars. I was disapointed but I am structuring my next hunt differently.

I super hate the kind of hunting you are talking about.....ask about a laundry service to wash all the dollar bills written all over you in invisible ink. Because that is a business hunt for money!

That is something I will not put up with ever again on a hunting trip!!!

 

[driehoek]

It is refreshing to ear that not every one wants package hunts.
We offer both but we also make individual packages for the hunter. We look at what e would like to harvest and then make a packes with the number of days he is thinking of.Another version is to make a package of the hunting days and add trophies as they fall. In the bush you must take what comes along especially f it is a gooooood trophy. I can nearly guarentee that that trophy will not come again .
If any one wants more information please contact us!
If you ave a good PH or hunting guide and an area that is not over hunted you should be able to get good trophies. Even the dream trophy. Namibia still has excellent trophies!!

 

[StickFlicker AZ]

I have done both individual trophy pricing and package hunts. When I compare the hunts from two different places, I have a hypothetical list of common animals that I compare, and a specified number of days to hunt. For example, I'm a bowhunter so I normally use 10 hunting days and maybe 5 common small and mid-sized animals. I create a table with each concession and list what 10 days would cost, and look up each species' price. That way I'm comparing apples to apples. If some are packages and some are trophy fees and daily rates, it doesn't matter. I just add extra days to bring the package to 10, etc. so I'm comparing the same hypothetical hunt at each place. Unless the daily rates are incredibly low, it is nice to start out with at least a small package of animals that includes a certain number of days at a discount. Then I build from that without having the pressure of trying to get everything offered in a large package with many animals. It's also great when they tell you they'll allow substitutions at pricelist cost.

Another thing that I don't see often, but I really like it, is when a safari company gives you a package with a certain number of days, and then "pools" of animals to choose from in your package. For example, shoot one from group A (Kudu, Nyala, Waterbuck), two from group B (Wildebeest, Hartebeest, Zebra) and two from group C (Impala, Warthog and Blesbok). In that way, you don't feel like you have to shoot a specific species (e.g. Kudu) if you don't see a nice one. You could shoot one of the other two animals in Group A if you saw a nice one.

 

[chonk34]

I thought a package deal was pretty good for my first hunt in Africa. I got a lot of fairly common animals at much less than list price. I did wind up swapping out the Warthog and Springbok in my package for a Black Wildebeest on the fly, and then buying a Warthog at the list price. Now that I have bagged many of the common plains game species, a package might not make sense unless it includes specific things I'm looking for.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Day rate plus trophy fee. Everyone is then covered; the outfitter has all his outlay and your stay is in effect quantified, like staying in a hotel. Then you have the freedom to take what you want from what is on offer, which may be different from what is offered in a package. Like shopping, but the trolley is pre-paid, you just fill it up. So fair, so clean.
By all means budget, but don't do it in public, it is more to know your extent than your cent.

 

[Mark Biggerstaff]

My first safari was a package hunt. All prices set if I didn’t get one of the animals I was was credited back that amount.

Last 3 safaris have been day fee plus trophy fee. I prefer this way. I can pick and choose when we are hunting. I do give a list ahead of time desired animals and get prices on them. If we run across something else price is discussed right then.

 

[Hunt anything]

I’ve done both like many of the posters. My first hunt was a Mozambique buffalo package that saved me about 700$. My following 2 safaris were daily rate/ trophy fee hunts with specific animals in mind and my last was a SCI donated hunt which I added a couple of days and extra animals. All were wonderful but I have never done an all inclusive plains game package that many hunters start out with.