Outrage over female vet who shot feral cat

[bhedge]

The Swedish Department of Nature Conservation is a part of the government charged with laws and regulations regarding all matters Fauna & Flora in Sweden. They make the laws.
Years ago a hunter shot a cyclist by accident, guy was cycling in the hunting area, cyclist was killed and the hunter charged. Same year a guy shoots a wolf off his hunting dog, wolf dies guy phones the police and reports it. Also gets charged. Guy who shot the cyclist gets 5 years,guy who shot the wolf gets 10!!!

You mean these guys? http://www.naturskyddsforeningen.se/in-english/About-us/
Are you sure? They themselves seem to think they are a lobby group... why would a section of government intentionally try to look like a lobby group? Weird.
[added after a bit of google...] http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturskyddsföreningen yeah, they are an NGO (in other words a lobby group). Sorry - nothing to do with your government.

But yeah, I don't think you can get away with manslaughter even in a warzone, let alone a hunting area. Wolves are protected in Sweden?

 

[TokkieM]

Nope these guys.
http://www.naturvardsverket.se/Om-Naturvardsverket/Organisation/

Yes wolves are very much protected in Sweden,so is Lynx.

The guy on the cycle was 1km away,the hunter shot at an animal on the horizon, bullet hit the animal but also killed the cyclist.

 

[bhedge]

Nope these guys.
http://www.naturvardsverket.se/Om-Naturvardsverket/Organisation/

Quite a significant name change since your first comment :/

I take it both of these "cases" you mention went through the usual legal process?

 

[TokkieM]

Not really if you grasp and speak the Swedish language,google translate is useless when it comes to that. "Skydd" is protect or protection not conservation. Any "Verket" is a government department.
.The Fox issues is going to court now,the other case has been through court and as stated that was the centance for both accused.

 

[bhedge]

Not really if you grasp and speak the Swedish language,google translate is useless when it comes to that. "Skydd" is protect or protection not conservation. Any "Verket" is a government department.
.The Fox issues is going to court now,the other case has been through court and as stated that was the centance for both accused.

Yeah, just your first post mentioned conservation and this new name doesn't mention it, but that lobby group is the exact name you first gave... No google translate involved mate... merely google to enter the words you gave and then I clicked the "English" button in the top right hand corner of both sites I seem to remember. Anyway... whatever, it'll be your public prosecutor or equivalent that's actually prosecuting regardless! So ho hum, lets move on.

So, these two cases were tried in your law courts and they were sentenced... and what? Wolves are protected, just likes Humans too... is killing people and protected animals something that should be allowed to go on? What is the point of protecting them if you are not going to actually protect them??? And you do realise in 2015 AD in Northern Europe, hunting is recreational, right? It's a choice and requires responsibility for one's actions. They should be let off scot-free???

 

[TokkieM]

If you hit the button on Google to English that would be Google translate. There is just about no word like concervation in Swedish, just like there is no English word for "lagom" in the English language. But thanks for the lesson in a language I speak.
Actually bud I would have thought the guy who shot the cyclist would at least serve a longer sentance than the one who shot a wolf,this being a civilized country and all.
All the best.

 

[bhedge]

Again mate... not google translate... google to find the proprietary webpage and then I clicked the EN or English button on THAT page.

http://www.naturskyddsforeningen.se/ top right - EN button, yeah?
http://www.naturvardsverket.se/ top right - English link, yeah?

Assuming so much mate... just read what's written... you don't have to make it up. And where exactly am I teaching you Swedish? Like I say, I searched for the phrase you originally gave (Nature Conservation [here in] Sweden https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Nature+Conservation+Sweden+) and the top link is that NGO page It's what they call themselves in English! Just a little close for it really, innit... like I say... I'm happy to move on... you seem to want to keep digging???

Yes, sometimes sentencing is odd... its down to all manner of things... the crime, the judge, the perpetrator and their remorse and standing, the terms of the sentence... far, far, far, far too many unknowns to make an offhand judgment based on some hearsay on some forum. I'll leave that sort of thing to you.

Anyway, go on then, what's Lagom mean? You are desperate to tell me and I'm moderately interested

 

[Savage Hunter]

she is guilty of stupidity.
it was stupid to ever take a picture of the cat with an arrow in it.
It was even more stupid to post it on the internet.

I am not for causing an animal to suffer.
But, I have no problem with someone killing their own animal that is terminally ill or suffering and
have no problem with someone shooting a feral cat.
I, myself, wouldn't take one to the Vet and pay to have it put to sleep. My wife would, I wouldn't.
Besides, how do you catch a feral cat? and, how do you handle a truly feral cat?
If you don't catch it in a cage, good luck. You'll need a doctor after you leave the cat at the Vet.

If I owned a Vet clinic I wouldn't want her working for me.
Not because she "killed a feral cat" (if it was feral), but because she is stupid.

 

[TokkieM]

@bhedge I see you are a member as of today,so I will let your wise ass comments slip and give you a heads up. This is a pretty decent community and folks here respect each other even if they don't agree. If you can't rationalize in a decent manner I suggest you find some other forum that caters more in line with what you are accustomed to.
Now on the other hand if you are a troll and I am not saying you are,you are going to find yourself cast out pretty quickly.

All the best.

 

[bhedge]

she is guilty of stupidity.
it was stupid to ever take a picture of the cat with an arrow in it.
It was even more stupid to post it on the internet.

I am not for causing an animal to suffer.
But, I have no problem with someone killing their own animal that is terminally ill or suffering and
have no problem with someone shooting a feral cat.
I, myself, wouldn't take one to the Vet and pay to have it put to sleep. My wife would, I wouldn't.
Besides, how do you catch a feral cat? and, how do you handle a truly feral cat?
If you don't catch it in a cage, good luck. You'll need a doctor after you leave the cat at the Vet.

If I owned a Vet clinic I wouldn't want her working for me.
Not because she "killed a feral cat" (if it was feral), but because she is stupid.

Some one gets it. (I have to say I do like the quote mechanism on this forum... this looks like song lyrics )

 

[bhedge]

@bhedge I see you are a member as of today,so I will let your wise ass comments slip and give you a heads up. This is a pretty decent community and folks here respect each other even if they don't agree. If you can't rationalize in a decent manner I suggest you find some other forum that caters more in line with what you are accustomed to.
Now on the other hand if you are a troll and I am not saying you are,you are going to find yourself cast out pretty quickly.

All the best.

Yeah... I've been more than decent. You simply cannot always judge tone from plain text - maybe you can point out the wise ass comments that appear to disrespect you? And I might be able to elucidate.
And to be clear, let's have a look, you made reference to a "political body" in Sweden - when searching for it, using your exact words I found an organisation that calls themselves those exact words... after looking at their webpage I asked you for clarification, because it didn't look like the political body you supposed it to be. Then after a bit of a wrangle... you give me the link to the Swedish EPA, which is fine... yeah, that is who would be doing this kind of thing. Like I say.. lets move on... we got there in the end.

If anything, looking at this thread... a few people made some posts, I happened across it, added some new information and asked further questions... you then started chipping in with frankly irrelevant and ^^^ misleading information. So if anyone, who is trolling whom? You have added nothing to this discussion - other than some half arsed hearsay about some sentencing of what appears to be just criminal cases.

[Added for clarity, since you brought it up]:
And yes, I was very clear in my initial comments I believe... I stayed here to ask some questions. Do not mistake curiosity for trolling. There is, as you will probably be aware, a far "easier" and "bigger" target on another thread that I won't be going near.. it is what brought me here... like I say, I wanted to get a range of views about it - see how, frankly common it is, etc, so on and so forth... these aren't things that are often reported on the news, unless its some pretty/rich/school-aged tourist. I would personally never stoop so low though as to... anyway I think we can agree that's left to the trolls and the mods to sort out. I'm not after an answer, there are no answers, merely opinions. My views on hunting are actually my own and will stay that way, they simply aren't relevant here when I'm asking questions because it will often affect the answer. Read that however you might decide to - it is what it is and that is that.

How do you feel about a vet behaving like this? Is this the kind of behaviour you'd expect?

What's Lagom mean?

 

[Savage Hunter]

the gentleman thing to do would be to drop it bhedge.
you may mean no disrespect and may be just clowning around a little, but it doesn't come across to me that way.
I don't know either of you, so I don't have a dog in this race.
I mean no disrespect to you and I wish you the best on this site.
But this site isn't like other hunting/shooting sites. it is a gentleman's site about a gentleman's sport. safari hunting.
Members on here that don't behave gentlemanly don't last.

 

[Scott Slough]

Brenham, TX, like every other city of that size in Texas has an animal control department and an animal shelter. No one should be stalking and shooting cats. Least of all a veterinarian who should know that todays "feral" cat is yesterdays stray pet.

 

[CAustin]

Feral cats can cause harm to many things including other cats and people. Yes one can call animal control to capture.....then what. They get put down. Same outcome just no photos or news.

 

[bhedge]

the gentleman thing to do would be to drop it bhedge.
you may mean no disrespect and may be just clowning around a little, but it doesn't come across to me that way.
I don't know either of you, so I don't have a dog in this race.
I mean no disrespect to you and I wish you the best on this site.
But this site isn't like other hunting/shooting sites. it is a gentleman's site about a gentleman's sport. safari hunting.
Members on here that don't behave gentlemanly don't last.

You are not wrong... but obfuscating and off-topic posts are the stuff of straw man tacticians and trolls, and frankly that's all I've seen here from HuntHardSafaris. Go figure :/

 

[bhedge]

Feral cats can cause harm to many things including other cats and people. Yes one can call animal control to capture.....then what. They get put down. Same outcome just no photos or news.

Not feral and illegal regardless

 

[AfricaHunting.com]

Something to keep in mind about cats… Please check out the following articles for some of these interesting and shocking facts about feral and domestic outdoor cats and their impact on wildlife.

- Cats Are Ruthless Killers. Should They Be Killed?:
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/culturing-science/2013/01/29/killer-cats/

- One of the World's Biggest Extinction Crises Is Being Caused by Cat:
https://news.vice.com/article/one-of-the-worlds-biggest-extinction-crises-is-being-caused-by-cats

- Domestic cats are mass killers:
http://www.scilogs.com/allotrope/domestic-cats-are-mass-killers/

- New Research Suggests Outdoor Cats Kill More Wildlife Than Previously Thought:
http://www.wildlifemanagementinstit...-than-thought&catid=34:ONB+Articles&Itemid=54

 

[TokkieM]

Do not mistake curiosity for trolling. There is, as you will probably be aware, a far "easier" and "bigger" target on another thread that I won't be going near.. it is what brought me here

So you had no initial interest in the forum and was brought here by a post that went public and you just wanted to see what the forum is about? So that's not trolling the forum?We are all clear on were we stand with regards to hunting,we like it and live for it,you seem to want to keep your opinion a secret on that.

As a new member I advise you to get to know how the functions here work,especially the profile check. 500 posts and I am a troll Posts with hunted animals and I am the troll

My opinion on the cat is that if indeed it left home weeks or days ago it could take care of itself. We have a serious problem with domestic cats killing birds,squirrels and rabbits for fun if this cat did the same then I don't blame her for shooting it.

Ooh and FYI
http://www.jaktojagare.se/kategorier/aktuellt/-djurkampe--misstankt-for-jaktbrott/

 

[Scott Slough]

Feral cats can cause harm to many things including other cats and people. Yes one can call animal control to capture.....then what. They get put down. Same outcome just no photos or news.

Animal control can determine if in fact it was feral and take appropriate measures to return a stray, so the outcome is not the same.

 

[Diamondhitch]

bhedge, first of all, thank you for discussing his in a civil manner. There have been many posting here in the last few days, none of which you will find the post of anymore due to the vulgarity and threats that do not conform with this sites policy (not to mention the law and generaly accepted convention for public forums).

I, like most, don't have any information as to the status of the cats ownership, the womans intentions or any other facet of this event so I will not speak directly to it. There is no point making assumptions, I am sure all will be investigated thoroughly.

What I will say is that, just as in society as a whole, you will find that in any group there is a small percentage that do not conform to the accepted rules or ethics. These individuals often either commit acts that would not be accepted by the group as a whole.

Hunters are quick to defend hunting when pressed, sometimes their defense is misinterpreted as condoning the things they are accused of which is often not the case. This is a defensive reaction caused by the constant onslaught of anti-hunting rhetoric and threats received by a few very vocal and very radical individuals.

I think you would be hard pressed to find a hunter that would willingly and maliciously kill someones family pet. However you will also find that a certain percentage, very similar to the percentage of the entire population, that have issues that have nothing to do with hunting, those people commit acts that hurt hunters as a whole. Their actions are not supported by hunters as a whole and the vast majority of us are as appalled as you when they occur.

If a sociopath becomes a hunter, we all wear that brand when it is revealed. This is no more fair than body builders being branded if a sociopath was discovered to be a fitness buff and portrayed in the media as such, despite the obvious disconnection in the 2 activities.

People who kill to cause suffering or who enjoy suffering, may or may not be hunters, either way they suffer from deeper issues and the 2 are certainly not connected. Hunters, as a whole, are very deeply motivated to not cause suffering in the animals they hunt, hence the pride in one shot kills or killing an animal in its tracks.

Some terms and behaviors that should not be associated directly with hunting.

Poacher - one who kills only for profit with no thought towards conservation or law.

Subsistence hunter - one who kills in order to feed his family with no thought towards conservation or law. ie indiscriminate snaring (any animals regardless of population status - endangered or not) found commonly in 3rd world countries. Not coincidentally this is higher in counties that do not utilize game meat form abundant animals to feed the poor.

Sociopath - one who kills or harms for the sole purpose of causing suffering and pain.

I am in no way saying any of this in reference to the cat case, simply clarifying our true position.

In reference to the cat case, there is another issue that it brings up. Free roaming pets, particularly if not spayed or neutered are very destructive on many levels. This is an issue that plagues us and taking ownership of our own actions, or lack thereof, is always difficult. Not neutering a male cat will certainly cause him to roam far from home, increasing the chances of being killed by traffic, wild animals, birds of prey, etc. As responsible pet owners who truly care for our pets and wish for their well being we need to do all we can to prevent our pets from getting into a situation that may be harmful to them in the first place. (This in no way condones violence to pets)