Opinions Welcome. RMR vs. 1-6 Scope .375 H&H

[Bwgunslinger]

The difference between the two is not significant: barrel band sling swivel (why?) and slightly different rear sight (different base, same fold down leaf). I am surprised the Alaskan has such a long barrel.

The express has fixed express sights with no fold down leaf and is a little heavier contour barrel. I’d rather have express sights on a rifle that would just be irons only. But you are right. Not much difference.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

The express has fixed express sights with no fold down leaf and is a little heavier contour barrel. I’d rather have express sights on a rifle that would just be irons only. But you are right. Not much difference.

My two guns have Winchester Safari Express sights and the leaves fold down on both. But I think they were off of late 1990s design. Bought used on ebay.

 

[Bwgunslinger]

My two guns have Winchester Safari Express sights and the leaves the fold down on both. But I think they were off of late 1990s design. Bought used on ebay.
View attachment 700917

Ahh nice! That scope has seen some use huh? Love it

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Ahh nice! That scope has seen some use huh? Love it

Yep. That's the Weaver K3 I retired off my Springfield before my first safari. Bought it in 1972 after throwing a useless Bushnell Banner down the mountain. That Weaver went down another mountain in 1981 in an end over end horse wreck. We both survived but the Springfield's first stock did not.

There was a fair chunk of glass missing from that scope's ocular lens when I finally benched it but still held zero. I built the Mauser 404J in 2023 and finished it just days before my fourth safari. Not enough time to get it blued or shop for another scope so the old Weaver made a comeback. Unfortunately, eye relief was tight and I got cut twice. My right eye is all I have left so I had to retire the K3 again.

Wore out the first barrel on my Springfield and replaced it before my second safari. That's when I added iron sights and QD rings.

 

[Bwgunslinger]

Yep. That's the Weaver K3 I retired off my Springfield before my first safari. Bought it in 1972 after throwing a useless Bushnell Banner down the mountain. That Weaver went down another mountain in 1981 in an end over end horse wreck. We both survived but the Springfield's first stock did not.
View attachment 700920
View attachment 700919
There was a fair chunk of glass missing from that scope's ocular lens when I finally benched it but still held zero. I built the Mauser 404J in 2023 and finished it just days before my fourth safari. Not enough time to get it blued or shop for another scope so the old Weaver made a comeback. Unfortunately, eye relief was tight and I got cut twice. My right eye is all I have left so I had to retire the K3 again.

Wore out the first barrel on my Springfield and replaced it before my second safari. That's when I added iron sights and QD rings.

Ouch! I had a 404 for a bit but never got tagged. Mostly used it with iron sights anyway!

Another member on here has given the .404 a new home and I made a friend in the process.

I am just not a fan of recoil lol. The first gun that really let me know I was not much for recoil was a Caprivi in .458 Lott. Waaaaay to light a rifle for that caliber.

I haven’t gotten to shoot a 416 or a 458 win mag but if I didn’t like the thump of a Heym .404, I doubt I’d like those any better ha.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Ouch! I had a 404 for a bit but never got tagged. Mostly used it with iron sights anyway!

Another member on here has given the .404 a new home and I made a friend in the process.

I am just not a fan of recoil lol. The first gun that really let me know I was not much for recoil was a Caprivi in .458 Lott. Waaaaay to light a rifle for that caliber.

I haven’t gotten to shoot a 416 or a 458 win mag but if I didn’t like the thump of a Heym .404, I doubt I’d like those any better ha.

What did the Heym weigh? My 404 weighs ... let me check on that again ... just under 12 lbs fully loaded with scope and sling attached. The recoil is not much worse than 375 CZ I used to take two buffalo.

 

[Bwgunslinger]

What did the Heym weigh? My 404 weighs ... let me check on that again ... just under 12 lbs fully loaded with scope and sling attached. The recoil is not much worse than 375 CZ I used to take two buffalo.

I think right about 10 with no optic. It was the standard Martini Express rifle.

Having said that, a 9lb safari express in 416 rem or 458 win would clearly knock you around more than the .404 huh?

Not as bad as the Kimber in 458 Lott but worse than the Heym in 404.

 

[Safari Dave]

I highly doubt that a Vortex will ever sit on one of my DG rifles.


A .375 H&H is too versatile for a 1X optic.
I think I would opt for a high quality LPVO on very good quality detachable mounts.

(You will, probably, never have to detach it, but I like the option)



If money were no object, I would go with a Swarovski Z8i in 1-8.

If you need to keep it below 2K, then Trijicon Accupoint 1-6x24

If you need to keep it below 1K, then find a Leupold VX-3HD 1.5-5x20

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

I posted this on the thread, https://www.africahunting.com/threads/458-optics-options.94551/#post-1459118
I changed the subject below from .458 to .375 and the same logic applies.

What are your functional (hunting) requirements for your .375 H&H (or Ruger)?
Look at it the old school way….

If you are a father with a wife and three young children at home. Your wife is a stay at home mother or works part time. You are the major bread winner with a modest income for a family of five. You can only afford one vehicle. You see where this is going, don’t you?

You may desire a Corvette or other sports car but obviously that isn’t practical. Even a Camaro or Mustang hasn’t enough room for the children and groceries. Enter the minivan of the 1980’s. Then the soccer moms graduated to the huge SUV’s for those who could afford them.

Did I mention that you are a tradesman who needs a pickup truck? Or maybe you need a truck for a side hustle (job) as a handyman? Enter the dual cab pickup truck. These are the best selling class of vehicles in the USA for good reason.

So, what are your requirements for your .375?

Dangerous game at 50 yards – Iron (metallic) sights if your vision is still good enough to shoot at least a 2” group off the sticks at 100 yards, just in case.

Large plains game at 50 to 300 yards – An accurate rifle in .375, shooting one MOA, is certainly capable of hitting the kill zone of an animal at 300 yards if the shooter can shoot that well in the field! Do however consider if the cartridge will produce enough power so that the retained energy at 100, 200, or 300 yards will be sufficent for a clean kill.

If shooting more than 50 yards with eyes that need reading glasses, an illuminated Low Power Variable Optic (LPVO) in 1-6x, 2-10x, or 2-12x.
Note: For this discussion, please consider a 1-6x to 2-12x a LPVO, even though the 2-10x and 2-12x probably are not...

If buffalo is you quest at ranges between 30 and 100 yards, an illuminated LPVO will serve you well! The light gathering qualities of these is a bonus in the dark bush.

If you are going on an elephant hunt with your .375 and plan to carry your own rifle as you trek ten miles a day in the hot African sun, a tiny reflex (commonly referred to as a red dot) sight makes sense.

Elephants do not see very well and are hard to kill. Accurate shot placement is essential to avoid your PH empting his rifle into your trophy to avoid it escaping with your misplaced bullet holes in it!

Shooting elephants is .99% of the time within 50 yards, if not 30 or less.

The tiny reflex sight affords more carrying room for one’s hand wrapped around the rifle’s receiver. Also, if using a safe (muzzle pointed outboard, NOT at any human ever) Africa carry, I find scopes rather irritating against my neck and shoulders. Darn irritating!

The best of both worlds includes quick release mounts for the scope and a reflex sight. Swap out one for another at the truck based on the game and environment. If you will not be able to see more than 50 yards in the bush, either will meet your needs. A tracker may willing carry your other safely packaged sight in a backpack that you have given him.

The LPVO at 1x or 2x magnification will provide a better (brighter) sight picture with a clear illuminated dot or crosshairs for quick sighting. It will also “gather light” which allows humans to see into the shadows better than with unassisted vision.

A reflex sight on your rifle will carry easier but… Here’s the rub, reflex sights project the red (or green) dot against the screen one sees. That screen is coated with iridium so that it will reflect the dot for human eyes to see. The iridium coating restricts the light passing through the screen by the equivalent of a f-stop or two.

https://opticsguides.com/how-does-a-reflex-sight-work/

“The technical principle behind the reflex sight is simple. A small LED produced a colored point of light reflected against the small, semi-transparent mirror and returned back into the front lens like a luminous target.

Because it has a semi-transparent mirror, it reflects only some light, thus enabling you to view the lens clearly. The shooter can see both the reflected point and the target in one image line through a special mirror.”

The bottom line from the above is an illuminated LPVO at 1x or 2x is better, sometimes depending in the available light in the bush, much better than the light stealing reflex sight. The reflex sights are however much smaller and present an easier carrying rifle than the neck rubbing scope.

Now let’s discuss reliability and durability for both LPVO and reflex sights.

Reliability includes

1. Illumination, does it always function as designed?
   • Does the dot appear circular to your eyes? My astigmatism makes a lot of dots look like the blob from hell! My Aimpoint H1’s have a much clearer, round dot to my eyes than my Trijicon RMR and SRO. I have a couple of Holosun reflex sights on S&W M&P .22 Magnum and 5.7 x 28mm pistols. The Holosun dots are like fat blobs…
2. Tracking, does it always move the point of impact as designed?
   • If one click equals one minute of angle POI movement at 100 yards, does the sight always “track” as it should? Move it five clicks up and 5 clicks right and shoot a group. Is the center of that group about 5” up and right from your original POI?
   • Now, move the sight 5 down and 5 left. Has the POI returned to the original POI? If so, the sight tracks good.
   • For a LPVO, anti-fogging today is a given. If not, better toss that scope!

Durability include, “Takes a licking (kicking, extreme abuse) and keeps on ticking” like an old Timex watch.

• If one drops the rifle and the LPVO or reflex makes first contact with a rock, does that sight survive and hold its zero (POI)?
• Does the sight survive extreme climatic changes such as temperature and moisture variations and remain optically clear and hold it zero?

A common phrase in Precision Pistol (Bullseye) completion shooting is, “Buy once, cry once”. That means it’s better to cry about how much money the very best equipment costs than to suffer its failure when you are 90% of your way through a match shooting what should be a new National Record!

Reliability and durability for a LPVO:

• Nightforce, although these scopes are heavy and their optics are superseded by Swarovski and other makes.
• Most people have good luck with Leupold although a small percentage of users experience equipment failures.
• Do not risk your $10,000 hunt or more hunt to a low cost scope!

Reliability and durability for a reflex sight:

• Trijicon of Aimpoint, Period!
• Once again, do not risk an expensive hunt on a low cost reflex sight!

The choice is yours, choose wisely.
Also for your consideration,
https://www.africahunting.com/threads/red-dot-rmr-sights-for-dangerous-game-rifles.73440/

 

[JG26Irish_2]

Mark Ouellette's comment posted above is well thought out and very well written. I did not quote it only because it is so long. At the risk of sounding like, I am talking out of both sides of my mouth, I will offer just one more comment...

I sit in the camp of not using QD mounts for my hunting rifles. Your needs and mileage may vary. I do not ride horses on hunts, and at least for now am sure footed enough that, I do not fall when walking, stalking, hunting, etc. Sure, it can happen and maybe if I was going on a one month Safari in Congo with only one rifle, I might feel differently. But, I don't. Nonetheless, I do have one Safari rifle that does wear a QD mount.

It is an old 1963 vintage FN Browning 308. Built on a lovely Mauser style CRF action, it came to me wearing a 2.5-8x Weaver variable in a Kuharsky Brothers scope mount. This is a unique old school solution for the hunter who could afford multiple rifles but only one scope. It was designed for the B&L Balvar variable optics that were top of the line in the late 50's & early 60's. Back then a top tier scope like the Balvar would easily cost 3x the price of a top tier hunting rifle like the FN or a pre64 Winchester.

I replaced the Weaver with a used Balvar that cost me $60 on Ebay. The Kuharsky mount zero's on the base that is attached to the rifle enabling the same scope to be zeroed and moved back and fourth to multiple rifles retaining zero on each. The clarity of the old scope is still as good or better than a modern top tier optic. It is clunky, and hard to zero precisely but once set is nearly impossible to mess it up. I had hoped to use the same scope on my 375 but after some trials in the field, I decided to go in a different direction. Still it is a simple, quality option. It has never failed to produce a one-shot kill on wild game including five PG critters in Africa last year. Used 180g bonded Federal Fusions for that hunt. They were devastating and most game dropped in their tracks or only went a few yards. No turrets to move or fail and everything is locked down tight.

It's biggest drawback was that the 1" rings are too small and too close together to enable newer optics to be attached. Pics below.

FN Browning Medallion Grade 308 with Balvar Optic on Kuharsky Mount

Matched pair of FN Brownings in 375HH & 308 used on 2024 Safari​

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I posted this on the thread, https://www.africahunting.com/threads/458-optics-options.94551/#post-1459118
I changed the subject below from .458 to .375 and the same logic applies.

What are your functional (hunting) requirements for your .375 H&H (or Ruger)?
Look at it the old school way….

If you are a father with a wife and three young children at home. Your wife is a stay at home mother or works part time. You are the major bread winner with a modest income for a family of five. You can only afford one vehicle. You see where this is going, don’t you?

You may desire a Corvette or other sports car but obviously that isn’t practical. Even a Camaro or Mustang hasn’t enough room for the children and groceries. Enter the minivan of the 1980’s. Then the soccer moms graduated to the huge SUV’s for those who could afford them.

Did I mention that you are a tradesman who needs a pickup truck? Or maybe you need a truck for a side hustle (job) as a handyman? Enter the dual cab pickup truck. These are the best selling class of vehicles in the USA for good reason.

So, what are your requirements for your .375?

Dangerous game at 50 yards – Iron (metallic) sights if your vision is still good enough to shoot at least a 2” group off the sticks at 100 yards, just in case.

Large plains game at 50 to 300 yards – An accurate rifle in .375, shooting one MOA, is certainly capable of hitting the kill zone of an animal at 300 yards if the shooter can shoot that well in the field! Do however consider if the cartridge will produce enough power so that the retained energy at 100, 200, or 300 yards will be sufficent for a clean kill.

If shooting more than 50 yards with eyes that need reading glasses, an illuminated Low Power Variable Optic (LPVO) in 1-6x, 2-10x, or 2-12x.
Note: For this discussion, please consider a 1-6x to 2-12x a LPVO, even though the 2-10x and 2-12x probably are not...

If buffalo is you quest at ranges between 30 and 100 yards, an illuminated LPVO will serve you well! The light gathering qualities of these is a bonus in the dark bush.

If you are going on an elephant hunt with your .375 and plan to carry your own rifle as you trek ten miles a day in the hot African sun, a tiny reflex (commonly referred to as a red dot) sight makes sense.

Elephants do not see very well and are hard to kill. Accurate shot placement is essential to avoid your PH empting his rifle into your trophy to avoid it escaping with your misplaced bullet holes in it!

Shooting elephants is .99% of the time within 50 yards, if not 30 or less.

The tiny reflex sight affords more carrying room for one’s hand wrapped around the rifle’s receiver. Also, if using a safe (muzzle pointed outboard, NOT at any human ever) Africa carry, I find scopes rather irritating against my neck and shoulders. Darn irritating!

The best of both worlds includes quick release mounts for the scope and a reflex sight. Swap out one for another at the truck based on the game and environment. If you will not be able to see more than 50 yards in the bush, either will meet your needs. A tracker may willing carry your other safely packaged sight in a backpack that you have given him.

The LPVO at 1x or 2x magnification will provide a better (brighter) sight picture with a clear illuminated dot or crosshairs for quick sighting. It will also “gather light” which allows humans to see into the shadows better than with unassisted vision.

A reflex sight on your rifle will carry easier but… Here’s the rub, reflex sights project the red (or green) dot against the screen one sees. That screen is coated with iridium so that it will reflect the dot for human eyes to see. The iridium coating restricts the light passing through the screen by the equivalent of a f-stop or two.

https://opticsguides.com/how-does-a-reflex-sight-work/

“The technical principle behind the reflex sight is simple. A small LED produced a colored point of light reflected against the small, semi-transparent mirror and returned back into the front lens like a luminous target.

Because it has a semi-transparent mirror, it reflects only some light, thus enabling you to view the lens clearly. The shooter can see both the reflected point and the target in one image line through a special mirror.”

The bottom line from the above is an illuminated LPVO at 1x or 2x is better, sometimes depending in the available light in the bush, much better than the light stealing reflex sight. The reflex sights are however much smaller and present an easier carrying rifle than the neck rubbing scope.

Now let’s discuss reliability and durability for both LPVO and reflex sights.

Reliability includes

1. Illumination, does it always function as designed?
   • Does the dot appear circular to your eyes? My astigmatism makes a lot of dots look like the blob from hell! My Aimpoint H1’s have a much clearer, round dot to my eyes than my Trijicon RMR and SRO. I have a couple of Holosun reflex sights on S&W M&P .22 Magnum and 5.7 x 28mm pistols. The Holosun dots are like fat blobs…
2. Tracking, does it always move the point of impact as designed?
   • If one click equals one minute of angle POI movement at 100 yards, does the sight always “track” as it should? Move it five clicks up and 5 clicks right and shoot a group. Is the center of that group about 5” up and right from your original POI?
   • Now, move the sight 5 down and 5 left. Has the POI returned to the original POI? If so, the sight tracks good.
   • For a LPVO, anti-fogging today is a given. If not, better toss that scope!

Durability include, “Takes a licking (kicking, extreme abuse) and keeps on ticking” like an old Timex watch.

• If one drops the rifle and the LPVO or reflex makes first contact with a rock, does that sight survive and hold its zero (POI)?
• Does the sight survive extreme climatic changes such as temperature and moisture variations and remain optically clear and hold it zero?

A common phrase in Precision Pistol (Bullseye) completion shooting is, “Buy once, cry once”. That means it’s better to cry about how much money the very best equipment costs than to suffer its failure when you are 90% of your way through a match shooting what should be a new National Record!

Reliability and durability for a LPVO:

• Nightforce, although these scopes are heavy and their optics are superseded by Swarovski and other makes.
• Most people have good luck with Leupold although a small percentage of users experience equipment failures.
• Do not risk your $10,000 hunt or more hunt to a low cost scope!

Reliability and durability for a reflex sight:

• Trijicon of Aimpoint, Period!
• Once again, do not risk an expensive hunt on a low cost reflex sight!

The choice is yours, choose wisely.
Also for your consideration,
https://www.africahunting.com/threads/red-dot-rmr-sights-for-dangerous-game-rifles.73440/

Thanks. Very comprehensive and thoughtful.

I am not a fan of African carry foolishness. 1) I don't have fullback shoulders. Not enough meat up there to be supporting 11+ lbs of flat unpadded wood and steel. 2) I'll always be following PH in the bush and not comfortable waving a muzzle anywhere remotely close to his direction even if the gun is unloaded (which is rare hunting dangerous game). 3) Rifle slung on my shoulder is fine. I will detach the sling and hand it to tracker during final approach. Frankly, I am much steadier shooting from sitting position using the sling than standing on sticks. Of course not to be attempted hunting dangerous game unless the target is 100+ yards. But for plains game I do prefer sitting + sling if situation allows.

Sounds like reflex sight really doesn't have a huge advantage over iron sights except quicker target acquisition (possibly?). For durability iron sights can't be beat ... literally. However, target acquisition may not be the quickest especially in poor light. And obviously range is more limited than optics.

I think having an optional sighting mechanism on hand is the best "SUV" option. For me it's the iron sights on the gun but a second scope might be a better option. Quick detach rings make this a viable alternative. How much better? For DGR and its limited range maybe not such a big deal to fall back on irons if the scope gets broke. I suppose in a pinch I could move the scope from plains game gun over to DGR if they both have QD rings and base slots match up (but maybe not because the base on my 404J is probably too low to accept the objective lens bell of 3-9x with low rings). Of course the scope would need to be zeroed again. It's kinda tin foil hat thinking anyway as I've only had one scope fail and that was a Bushnell Banner 4x that was a POS out of the box in 1964. I put its successor Weaver 3x through the ringer over the next 45 years and it's still working.

 

[Bwgunslinger]

I very much appreciate the input and the experience shared. I’ve hunted all my life but only once in Africa. I hope to go several more times. I have family that goes yearly so it’s definitely a possibility. God willing.

As for equipment failures and potential optic issues, I would definitely like to limit the potential of that.

I’ve taken a tumble down a loose dirt washout with a MK18 in west Texas and lost zero on my optic. Luckily no dangerous game at play.

My dad dropped his 338 in a boat and then had to quickly learn how to hold off a moose 5 feet when the first round knocked water off the antlers. Lol

The only in-field change I’ve ever made to a rifle quickly or while actively after a single animal was when I removed my sling to go after the buffalo after the first shot. Shot him when he stood up and started walking. 23 yards away and I was sitting next to the PH for around 30 minutes waiting for him to stand.

Then after that, took the sling off because it was thick brush and I had never been in close with buffalo before.

That hunt really showed me that there is no perfect optic solution. Heck, hog hunting also shows some of the same flaws with optics it’s just not dangerous.

When you take the first shot, you want precision. When you go after them or they start running, a red dot is great! At dawn and dusk the scope is great. When you are carrying the rifle, irons are super convenient.

Always a trade off I suppose. I highly doubt I would ever swap optics on a hunt unless it was to replace a damaged optic.

For this 375 Alaskan, it’s getting the Leupold 1-6 VX6HD patrol. Regular duplex.

If I get another .375 (or briefly forget I hate recoil and get something bigger), I might leave that with irons or mount the RMR.

Luckily, whether shooting Buffalo in Africa, deer in Texas, or dove in Argentina, if something breaks there are usually enough guns to cover the issue haha