Opinions please: Pros/Cons of .375 Ruger vs .375 H&H

They're really one in the same. There's really nothing wrong with the 375 Ruger. It's just that there was really never a need for it. It's hard to dispute that. Like I said about re-inventing the wheel.

Shorter action = No real benefit.

Beltless round = The 375HH doesn't typically have feed issues because it's not a giant cartridge like the 458WM or 458 Lott.

Shorter barrel = You could potentially make an slight argument here. Does a 2" off a 24" barrel really matter? I don't personally, think it does. Especially when you look at the 375HH as a short to mid-range round to begin with. Not long range. Why are we even going shorter? Are we trying to make a bush-gun?

Minimal velocity increase = Not worth speaking about.

It's not a bad round. Is it worth the extra work to find ammo and reloading supplies? That depends on the person I suppose. If you like it, go for it. If you reload and have the supplies, have at it. The fact it has "Ruger" at the end of it and is one of the only offerings in the Hawkeye, feels a little nepotistic and money-grabby to me.

There's a couple really iconic African rounds out there. Two of which are the 375HH and the 416 Rigby. Why they would reinvent them makes absolutely no sense. The 416 makes even less sense.

You realize only like 300 416 Rigby's existed from inception until Bill Ruger started making them in 1991? He dramatically quadrupled the number extant.

The only thing iconic about it is our imagination and a writer with a hero worship complex. Almost nobody actually ever saw them in use.

It is called a false nostalgia. It is like you have watched to many pirate movies, and now an eye patch means pirate, when it never actually was the case in real life.
 
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You realize only like 300 416 Rigby's existed from inception until Bill Ruger started making them in 1991? He dramatically quadrupled the number extant.

The only thing iconic about it is our imagination and a writer with a hero worship complex. Almost nobody actually ever saw them in use.
This is a numbers game, as the Americans became more affluent they hunted more and bought more. Many people like the newest just because. It may not really improve anything or maybe it does. Companies will continue to make new everything just to sell more, that is what they do and how they make money and pay their stockholders. There will always be someone willing to buy and that is ok.
 
This is a numbers game, as the Americans became more affluent they hunted more and bought more. Many people like the newest just because. It may not really improve anything or maybe it does. Companies will continue to make new everything just to sell more, that is what they do and how they make money and pay their stockholders. There will always be someone willing to buy and that is ok.

What on earth are you talking about? What does that have to do with how many 416 Rigby's existed? Or didn't, as it was considered a dead caliber that even Kynoch stopped making ammo for. There were tens of thousands of rifles in other calibers before American's came into play.
 
The cartridge has won against the Ruger. That’s a simple fact. The 375 Ruger never surpassed the H&H in ammo offerings, rifle offerings, or popularity hunting dangerous game. A few of you are trying to make this personal when the facts are against you. Regardless of the 375 Ruger’s advantages it remains where it is.

Not sure that’s a fair statement….the H&H has had a 100 year head start. lol

Again, nothing personal with me….I think the H&H does win in the areas you mention….but I also think thei Ruger has merit that shouldn’t be discounted.
 
What on earth are you talking about? What does that have to do with how many 416 Rigby's existed? Or didn't, as it was considered a dead caliber that even Kynoch stopped making ammo for. There were tens of thousands of rifles in other calibers before American's came into play.
well, just that there are limited number of hunters that buy DG rifles, that number has peaked. Many of the weapons are resold, so, the money is in the ammunitions. Bill Ruger saw a niche and filled it. Like any niche it was smaill. DG hunters are a decreasing number and the niche for rifles and calibers has been filled, now it is time to make a new niche and sell new something. This is a broad over view, just applied to some of the statements on this thread and others, If it does make sense to you, that is ok also.
 
well, just that there are limited number of hunters that buy DG rifles, that number has peaked. Many of the weapons are resold, so, the money is in the ammunitions. Bill Ruger saw a niche and filled it. Like any niche it was smaill. DG hunters are a decreasing number and the niche for rifles and calibers has been filled, now it is time to make a new niche and sell new something. This is a broad over view, just applied to some of the statements on this thread and others, If it does make sense to you, that is ok also.

No, that is a false narrative. It gets told and retold, but it isn't the case. Take away Robert Ruark and the 416 Rigby is entirely forgotten. There were not arms OR ammo being sold for it for a couple decades. Only the release of the 416Rem in the late 80s revived it from its death throes. In the meanwhile, many other DG calibers sold very well. Thousands upon thousands of 458 Win Mag and 375 H&H managed to get produced, and the converted BPE cartridges that became the Nitro Express series continued to have strong sales all along. The Jeffery was for labor, but continued to sell.

I guess that makes the 458 Win Mag, the cartridge nobody wants to love, the true icon? It has outsold any other DG cartridge.
 
You realize only like 300 416 Rigby's existed from inception until Bill Ruger started making them in 1991? He dramatically quadrupled the number extant.

The only thing iconic about it is our imagination and a writer with a hero worship complex. Almost nobody actually ever saw them in use.

It is called a false nostalgia. It is like you have watched to many pirate movies, and now an eye patch means pirate, when it never actually was the case in real life.

Not sure I get your point. They invented the 416 Ruger in 2008. CZ, BRNO, Dakota, and it's rumored MRC is coming out with 416 Rigby chambered rifles. There's not a ton of offerings, but they're out there.

Let's not forget they also have a 416 Rem which was invented in the 80's, albeit belted.

Once again, what for?

There might be a better argument for the 416 Ruger being there are not as many chamberings in 416 Rigby.
 
There's a couple really iconic African rounds out there. Two of which are the 375HH and the 416 Rigby. Why they would reinvent them makes absolutely no sense. The 416 makes even less sense.

Not sure I get your point. They invented the 416 Ruger in 2008. CZ, BRNO, Dakota, and it's rumored MRC is coming out with 416 Rigby chambered rifles. There's not a ton of offerings, but they're out there.

Let's not forget they also have a 416 Rem which was invented in the 80's, albeit belted.

Once again, what for?

There might be a better argument for the 416 Ruger being there are not as many chamberings in 416 Rigby.

Where did the 416 Ruger enter the picture? What on earth? Who said anything about it?

HookMeUpll called the 416 Rigby iconic. I said that is a false nostalgia. It NEVER actually saw any significant use until TODAY. Ya'll started spinning off in other directions... The 375 H&H can legit be called iconic. It never has been anything but.

People call the 375 Ruger marketing hype. Guess what... the 416 Rigby is the true hype machine. It never came, saw or conquered.... it was vapor until recently. But Harry Selby makes it cool. And the Kool-Aid was drunk.
 
Where did the 416 Ruger enter the picture? What on earth? Who said anything about it?

HookMeUpll called the 416 Rigby iconic. I said that is a false nostalgia. It NEVER actually saw any significant use until TODAY. Ya'll started spinning off in other directions... The 375 H&H can legit be called iconic. It never has been anything but.

People call the 375 Ruger marketing hype. Guess what... the 416 Rigby is the true hype machine. It never came, saw or conquered.... it was vapor until recently. But Harry Selby makes it cool. And the Kool-Aid was drunk.
You did. There was a comment made about reinventing the wheel with 375 H&H and 416 Rigby comparing to the 375 Ruger and 416 Ruger so you went off on this tangent. It appears you are correct all 416s only became common in the late 80s, but of those Rigby is the only original cartridge. Ruger and Hornady were late for both calibers.
 
You did. There was a comment made about reinventing the wheel with 375 H&H and 416 Rigby comparing to the 375 Ruger and 416 Ruger so you went off on this tangent. It appears you are correct all 416s only became common in the late 80s, but of those Rigby is the only original cartridge. Ruger and Hornady were late for both calibers.

375Fox,
I appreciate it. I do see what happened from your response.

I did say Bill Ruger, but I was refering to him bringing back the 416 Rigby via the RSM. I believe that is where that came in. I hadn't meant to speak to the 416 Ruger, only the 416Rem and 416 Rigby.

I was quite confused, and I think we were going in circles on that tangent (which it was, and that I was guilty of, on the Rigby being iconic vs the H&H).
 
People call the 375 Ruger marketing hype. Guess what... the 416 Rigby is the true hype machine. It never came, saw or conquered.... it was vapor until recently. But Harry Selby makes it cool. And the Kool-Aid was drunk.

You brought up the the 416, not me.

I think I might have to just agree to disagree here. It's a storied round. As storied as the 375HH, for better or worse the 458WM, the 404 Jeff, etc.

Not sure what metric you're using. Harry Selby, John Sharp, Ruark, and others all, at least partly, used the 416. If you actually read, there was a flood of offerings in 416 in the 80's when commercially available brass was being made. Then they seemed to dry up until late. The metric of a "couple hundred" rifles was the production number from Rigby post-1911. In the 80's, although I might be mistaken, even Ruger chambered rifles in 416 Rigby. And now it's on the upswing again.

The 375HH definitely did not need to be reinvented. 416, probably not, but at least has a bit stronger argument, for comparison purposes.

Back to the 375HH, it's incredibly hard to say the Ruger wins over the HH. Mainly for ammo availability. Ballistics they're neck in neck.

The real question is: If you walk into a shop in RSA, needing ammo, which is on the shelf? In fact, I've literally seen it with my own eyes. I've seen 375HH on the shelf in RSA. As well as 416 Rigby, believe it or not.

If you love 375 Ruger, don't care about having to reload and/or look around for ammo, go for it. As for recommending it over the 375HH, I don't see the point. Ballistics being neck and neck, I am taking the one that has better on-shelf ammo availability.
 
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Barnes 375LRX, 270 gn with .449BC looks interesting. Especially if hunting in an area with bears. Makes the 375R seem pretty practical in the US.
 
Back to the 375HH, it's incredibly hard to say the Ruger wins over the HH. Mainly for ammo availability. Ballistics they're neck and neck.
Agree with much of what you wrote but have to respectfully disagree they are not neck and neck ballistically if you compare factory ammo. The 375 Ruger case holds 4% more powder and in the same barrel lengths will outperform the 375 H&H by 50-100 FPS. Of course no animal will be able to tell the difference.

I think the biggest advantage the 375 Ruger has over the 375 H&H is it’s manufactured in some very affordable rifles like Mossberg and Savage in the $500-$700 range. Then Ruger in the $1100-$1200 range.
 
If I am going to dance the ultimate dance of dangerous game I want an experienced partner in heels, not one with purple spiked hair in Dr. Martins boots.
 
Agree with much of what you wrote but have to respectfully disagree they are not neck and neck ballistically if you compare factory ammo. The 375 Ruger case holds 4% more powder and in the same barrel lengths will outperform the 375 H&H by 50-100 FPS. Of course no animal will be able to tell the difference.

I think the biggest advantage the 375 Ruger has over the 375 H&H is it’s manufactured in some very affordable rifles like Mossberg and Savage in the $500-$700 range. Then Ruger in the $1100-$1200 range.

Good point and the way this discussion should go.

For me, it's still the HH. However, I see your point behind the price. Although, I did just score a Browning X-Bolt in 375HH, brand new, production for $1080 after the factory rebate. With that being said, the new 375HH production has been thin lately.
 
Good point and the way this discussion should go.

For me, it's still the HH. However, I see your point behind the price. Although, I did just score a Browning X-Bolt in 375HH, brand new, production for $1080 after the factory rebate. With that being said, the new 375HH production has been thin lately.
A few on this thread have stated not many hunters will take a $500-$700 rifle to Africa, especially if DG is the quarry. They are correct, very few will and many bring optics costing 3-4 times this too.

Still, I’m glad that manufacture’s are chambering rifles in 375 Ruger, even if they are low cost rifles, they wouldn’t be producing them if there’s wasn’t a market and this is good for the 375 Ruger.

As long as the hunter fully vets their low cost rifle with practice and knows it’s operationally sound, they should be fine for Africa. Perhaps, one could upgrade in optics too with a lower cost rifle? Mount a Schmidt & Bender or Swaro to your $500 Mossberg Patriot 375 Ruger!
 
hmmm,

it seems to me, this comparison/disagreement is much like comparing the 300 H&H to the 300 winchester. the 300 win is a cartridge that is shorter, maybe a touch faster than a cartridge that came before it.(H&H).

the same arguments could be applied to the 300 debate that is now raging on this 375 debate. not a huge deal. now, the 300 win is more popular and available (for whatever reason). both are great calibers both in 375 and 300.

its kinda what gun grumps do: argue about 100 fps or .25 shorter or 300 ft lbs more/or less. enjoy the debate. truth is, with a great cartridge design in the right rifle, ammo availability is the only weak link. that is maybe the only issue with the ruger (but i hand load so it is not a problem).
 
Well said Don,

Much like yourself, I favor this forum over all others I have visited, due to the more intellectual and generally polite type discussions.
The often pugilistic style sometimes too common within the ranks of those other forums is tedious to read, IMO.

And so with that, let us not forget an honorable mention right here, to those who when short on merit to support their opinion, stoop so desperate and low as to spend screen time labeling other members by less than complimentary cartoon character names.

Cheers,
Velo Fudd.
 

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Well said Don,

Much like yourself, I favor this forum over all others I have visited, due to the more intellectual and generally polite type discussions.
The often pugilistic style sometimes too common within the ranks of those other forums is tedious to read, IMO.

And so with that, let us not forget an honorable mention right here, to those who when short on merit to support their opinion, stoop so desperate and low as to spend screen time labeling other members by less than complimentary cartoon character names.

Cheers,
Velo Fudd.

Are you hunting wabbits too??
 
No, that is a false narrative. It gets told and retold, but it isn't the case. Take away Robert Ruark and the 416 Rigby is entirely forgotten. There were not arms OR ammo being sold for it for a couple decades. Only the release of the 416Rem in the late 80s revived it from its death throes. In the meanwhile, many other DG calibers sold very well. Thousands upon thousands of 458 Win Mag and 375 H&H managed to get produced, and the converted BPE cartridges that became the Nitro Express series continued to have strong sales all along. The Jeffery was for labor, but continued to sell.

I guess that makes the 458 Win Mag, the cartridge nobody wants to love, the true icon? It has outsold any other DG cartridge.


Greetings akrifleman,

We might be neighbors of a sort, as presuming by your screen name, you live in Alaska.
I live in Anchorage (Rabbit Creek drainage).

Anyway and be that as it may, my opinion respectfully differs from yours, on some of your comments …..

1.
IE: “Take away Robert Ruark and the .416 Rigby is entirely forgotten”.

In my opinion, back in my teenage years (late 1960’s) while reading about this cartridge in Outdoor Life magazine, I am one person who definitely has not “entirely forgotten” it.
Also worth mentioning, Ruark was not the only noteworthy person, from the past who spoke highly of the .416 Rigby.
There definitely were some other, equally notable and historically significant people who, favored owned and repeatedly used this caliber, in Africa.
A.
Well known Author, Jack O’Connor had one built on a splendid Brevex Magnum Mauser action and used it in Africa.
My foggy old man memory has it that he had to turn the belt off of .460 Weatherby brass and then re-form it in a custom (RCBS ?) made die for the .416 Rigby cartridge, as proper brass was near impossible to simply impossible find, in those days.
I do not recall what he wrote about the projectiles he loaded for his particular rifle.
But, I suspect finding them and / or making them was not exactly a simple affair either.
But, “where there’s a will, there’s a way.”
So, O’Connor was able to hand load for and hunt with his .416 Mauser.
B.
Famous PH and also well known Author, John A. Hunter owned and often used what I believe was an original Rigby built one, on the very desirable, square bridge Oberndorf Magnum Mauser action.
About the time I was finally realizing that I would not likely find an affordable .404 Jeffery, I was also coincidentally reading his great book “Hunter” by J.A. Hunter.

His account of piling up an impressive stack of problem lions, throughout one single remarkable night, via his .416 Rigby repeater, inspired me to abandon my several year long quest for a Magnum Mauser in caliber .404 Jeffery then, to instead focus on the .416 Rigby cartridge.

Pictured below is my own, not so famous .416 Rigby caliber rifle.
It is primarily a CZ brand Model 550 Magnum.
I bought it for $800. USA dollars, more than 10 years ago, in Rogers, Minnesota.

Then, I had a professional Gunsmith cut the barrel to 24”, install a front sight to my liking, a barrel band sling swivel stud, reinforce the stock against splitting, install a gel type anti-recoil pad, weld on a larger bolt handle, install a Model 70 style “safety” shroud and tab plus, one or two other minor things that I don’t remember right now.
Someday I’d like to re-shape the cheek piece from the present tear drop shape into the classic oval shape and slim the forend just a tad as well.
Anyway, the only things I’ve shot with it so far are inanimate targets.
However, with good old original Hornady round nose 400 grainers, it is as accurate as any of the several .30-06 rifles that have come and gone from my possession, over this longass lifetime of mine so far.
C.
Another notable Author, John “Pondoro” Taylor wrote nothing but glowing accounts of how well suited this cartridge and the malleable steel jacket / lead core 410 grain bullets made for it were excellent for heavy dangerous game.
He mentioned also that the blunt shaped bullet with plenty of lead showing at the tip was an impressive one for the swift and sure crumpling of charging lions.

+

2.
“Only the release of the .416Rem in the late 80s revived it from its death throes”.

My recollection is that it actually was Bill Ruger who revived the .416 Rigby cartridge, by introducing his true magnum sized bolt action repeater, in that wonderfully powerful and what I contend is an iconic African cartridge.

+

3.
“and the converted BPE cartridges that became the Nitro Express series continued to have strong sales all along”.

I remember from back in the 1970’s and well into 1980’s that, there seemed to be nobody selling ammunition for most if not all of the flanged British nitro cartridges, (the .303 being a noted exception), nor any of the old British original .40 and larger bore rimless ones either (including the .416 Rigby).
At least the two areas where I lived at that time showed no ammunition for pretty much any of those wonderful old, time machines, on local retail shelves.
Also during those sad years, I recall seeing some very splendid, London and Birmingham built double rifles, in various large bore classic nitro calibers for sale, at ridiculously low prices, perhaps due to live ammunition and hand loading components both, having become difficult to impossible to find during those years.
If I wasn’t held back by the folly of my youthful foolishness during those times, I could have taken out a bank loan and bought some of those rifles.
By waiting until now to sell them, I could’ve been a free man today. LoL

+

4.
“The Jeffery was for labor, but continued to sell”.

This one statement of yours that I have quoted as #4 here, is difficult for me to understand.
I fully realize that I’m not the smartest guy around and so, it may be that my thick skull is to blame.
Nonetheless, I don’t understand what that particular sentence means.

Well anywhooo, I mean no disrespect.
It’s just that my experiences and observations in this topic apparently are significantly different than yours.
Also, I can’t figure out the one where you said—> “The Jeffery was made for labor” etc., etc.
No offense intended but, I just don’t understand that one.

I suppose I’ve rambled on more than perhaps I should’ve.
And so with that, I will stop here and be quiet for at least 15 or 20 seconds.

Kind Regards,
Velo Dog.
 

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