One cartridge to hunt dangerous game for the rest of your life and it can't be a 375, what are you going with?

[ActionBob]

Holy Cow, maybe I should have went with more cartridge, I was only counting on 125 lbs......


No offense, just good fun..............




Laid out by the OP;

One cartridge to hunt dangerous game for the rest of your life​

So, I have bullets, that would work for the heavies in 338, .308, and 358 caliber.......... But I just don't think that meets my personal "Best Cartridge for Dangerous Game". I believe I would rather work down than to have to worry about working UP........... Yes, no doubt cats respond to velocity, I concur........ I think I can work down for all the cats to a 335 Raptor at 2650 fps and get by fine with cats and bears of all sorts....... and starting at .500 caliber........ I have not tried the 300 Raptors, but suspect I could hit 2750 or more with those....... In the possible concern of ripping a 125-135 lb cat in half with that Raptor, I might opt for a good 375 gr Solid at reduced velocity of 2500 fps or so as well....... While a solid is not needed, .500 caliber, at 2500 fps and not taking the risk of turning one leopard into two half leopards, it might be wise......... LOL

Like I said, a fun little thread to consider all sorts of ideas...............

Yes fun thread

I don't think anyone should be hunting leopard with a solid. They are very tough, resilient, and ferocious when wounded. You are on the right track with speed! But honestly a bullet that expands explosively and obliterates the whole chest cavity would best. Do that and no need for an exit as there will no tracking.

 

[michael458]

I don't think anyone should be hunting leopard with a solid.

Oh No, I most certainly would in some very rare circumstances........Tell you a little leopard story.... and I HATE damn Leopards, and I hate hunting the bastards, I just don't have the patience for them, my fault, not theirs......

Back in the days when dinosaurs still roamed the earth, I was sitting in a stand above a watering hole in Namibia, spooning out some cream corn for afternoon snack. I am sitting there with a 338 Winchester loaded with 250 gr Partitions (I told you it was back in the days of Dinosaurs)......... I had already not been impressed with these bullets, but it was what I had.........

So I am sitting there, mid afternoon, watching critters come in and out to the water, along with cattle and what have you........ There was a little fence along the way, stick fence, made up of 1-2 inch sticks about 4 feet high. You could see thru the cracks somewhat...... I looked down to spoon some more corn, lifted my head, and I saw what looked like a spotted cat on the other side of the fence creeping in to the waterhole!!!!!!!!.............Yes, maybe cheetah? It moved slowly, then I caught a glimpse and sure enough it was a leopard, no doubt about it. Well it was about to get exciting....... he crept up another 10-12 feet, and that was just before the end of the fence and laid down. Another two steps, and he would have been in the wide open, and I was ready.................... He laid there for what seemed an eternity........ I waited..... Maybe I shoot through the damn fence?......No, I didn't trust this bullet, but he is only a foot from the fence max....... Hmmm.... Damn, I wish I had a solid, I know I could shoot through the fence with a solid and at the time Barnes was making a 250 gr Solid...... I can't remember, but I don't think it was Flat Nose... not at that time. (remember, time of the Dinosaurs, long time)....... So I watched, waited, thinking he is going to get up, step into the open, Bang.... Done over the end............No, that bastard got up, turned around, went right back where he came from, behind the safety of the little fence, and poof....... Gone....... Damn right, if I would have had a solid I would have shot through the fence, and followed up as quick as possible, I might have got lucky and busted him in the head.......> DAMN.......... Thinking back now, I really should have just shot with the Partition too, and sorted it out...... Would Have, Should Have, Might Have, Could Have........ but didn't........... It would be years before I finally collected..... once done, I never hunted one again...... I hate the damn things. HEH..........

 

[AZDAVE]

Well since I usually fail to follow the rules laid down in the start of this thread.
Will go with the ones I currently own.
Double: 500/416

Bolt gun
1st 500 Jeff
2nd 458 B&M
3rd 416 Ruger

Single shot
9.3x74

 

[michael458]

Well since I usually fail to follow the rules laid down in the start of this thread.

@AZDAVE ....... WTF does this say;

One cartridge to hunt dangerous game​

You cheating you get 5 choices.......... Now I want 5 choices, and everyone else will want 5 choices, then they gonna go on about bullets, and then it will be shooting 223s at wild ass dangerous killer squirrels and it just goes on, you see what kind of crap you start.....?................



Damned trouble maker is what you are.......... HEH.............

 

[AZDAVE]

@michael458 what can I say

 

[Bigmedcin]

Only one for the rest of my life!! well that could include living through a huge ammo and or component drought or , outright major restrictions on guns and ammo so.. (pessimistic side of me talking here).

Although it might not be the most Romantic cartridge to me.. But I would choose the 458 win mag. popular bullet dia. easy enough to make cases out of other cases if need be 300-500 gr bullets plentiful. many different powders work for reloading this size straight wall. heck even black powder and a 550 grain hard cast bullet will get the job done in a pinch.

 

[Northern Shooter]

This is a fun thread, and there is no right or wrong choices, its about what you would choose. But it has to go beyond just the "Cartridge", there has to be more to it than just that one component. How about the platform/Rifle? How about the most important component, the bullet? I think you have to consider these two components to come up with a proper decision.

Cartridge for Dangerous Game............

Well, this narrows the selection well...... not a cartridge that is capable of doing other jobs, not an all around cartridge, one that is barely or not adequate for dangerous game, but good for impala and white tail deer too....... No, Dangerous Game only cartridge, no other considerations involved.

Dangerous game will have at the top end buffalo, hippo, and elephant. At the bottom end a 125 lb leopard....... in between lion/bear and throw in the odd crocodile I think as well.....

You have to plan for the biggest of this category, not the smallest. What might be perfect for the 125 lb leopard, probably won't be for the elephant. What is perfect for the elephant, can be made do for the 125 lb leopard with proper choice of bullets........

When considering elephant, buffalo and hippo, Caliber of the cartridge is important. For me, that starts at .458 Caliber and I think optimum at .500-.510 caliber. Rifles that come in larger calibers are just more than I want to carry around all day long, and I think are more cumbersome for me to put to work quickly if required. I love .458 caliber, it is more versatile overall than the larger .500-.510s....... Any of the 458s would be a dandy choice............ 458 hits harder than .416.......... and in the same view .500 hits harder than .458. I have not seen any difference in this between .458 and .474, but have seen differences in 458 to .500.

For caliber, I am going to go to .500 caliber to hit the biggest, the hardest. I can make some bullet choices down from there to sort out the lesser size DG.

Now, What 500 caliber Cartridge?

What rifles do I have personally that would meet my requirements?

I have in hand a giant 12lb Ruger Magnum in 510 Wells..... .510 caliber, can easy shoot 570 #13s at 2400 fps +, long musket barrel of 24 inches.............. No, not this one, it is just way more weight, length than I am going to carry around in the field. It is cumbersome, it is not handy, it is not fast. No, it is out.........

I have 500 MDM, rifles come in with 20 inch barrels, from 8.25-8.5 lbs depending on the wood. Cartridge is capable of sending 500 gr CEB #13 Solids down range at 2400 fps, these will end to end buffalo, easy, capable of 525 gr CEB #13 Solids at 2300 fps, more than capable of slamming all the heavies. Of course in the case of buffalo there are many capable trauma inflicting bullets to start the buffalo dance, followed by the solids....... and these just slam buffalo to the extreme. And while I have put many days in the field with this cartridge/rifle, It only comes in Second on my List.

I have lesser .500 caliber cartridges, 50 B&M capable of 500 Solids at 2150 fps, 18 inch barrel, 7.5-8 lbs, light, and short, very fast, very handy, very easy to work with, and also would not be a bad choice at all for this mission, but for the purposes of this thread, I think I want something in between the bigger 500 MDM and the 50 B&M..............

That in between cartridge comes in with a 18 inch barrel as well, same contour as the smaller 50 B&M. It uses a Winchester RUM long action, utilizes a 2.5 inch RUM case, dead in between the other two .500s........ Standard weight is around 8 lbs. It is only 1/2 inch longer than the 50 B&M and a full 2 inches shorter than the bigger 500 MDM. It is capable of 500 CEB #13 Solids at 2250 fps, 525 CEB #13 Solids at 2170 fps, various 450 gr North Fork and CEB solids at 2400 fps, all of these more than capable of the heavies and hit them hard. Trauma inflicting bullets from 410 gr to 450 gr, 2400 fps to 2500 fps...... rips and slams buffalo into submission. One of the great advantages of using this cartridge, it can utilize Talon Tips in the Raptors and work through the magazine, this Talon Tip adds 125-150 fps impact at 50 yards, substantial with these type bullets.

Rifle is extremely handy, fast, easy to carry all day, handles incredibly well. It is short enough not to be cumbersome, and if needed quickly at very close range, it is a fighter for sure.

I think for ME, I choose what is designated as the 500 B&M, 2.5 inch RUM to .500 caliber. It is not a popular rifle/cartridge, reason is, I never turned it loose like the other cartridges, it was more of an experiment for me personally. There are only two of these in existence, I have both. One is stocked with an Accurate Innovations Bastogne Stock, and the other is an Accurate Innovations Myrtle Stock......... Let me show you my Choice for this Thread;

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Bastogne stocked 18 inch 500 B&M Matte Black Gunkote finish

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Myrtle Stock 18 inch GunKote Finish 500 B&M;

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Excellent write up. I had never heard of these cartridges and love that idea that there are more 0.50cal bolt actions out there aside from the 500 Jeffery's and 505 Gibb's. How lively is the recoil on those rifles at those quoted rifle weights. They seem on the light side of the spectrum.

 

[michael458]

Excellent write up. I had never heard of these cartridges and love that idea that there are more 0.50cal bolt actions out there aside from the 500 Jeffery's and 505 Gibb's. How lively is the recoil on those rifles at those quoted rifle weights. They seem on the light side of the spectrum.

Thank you, it was fun going through the exercise. I developed 5-6 .500 caliber, true .500 now mind you, for different platforms under the B&M banner........ even semi auto......... and then we designed the bullets for all of them with CEB and North Fork. In the beginning, there were no serious bullets in .500 caliber, now we have very serious bullets that will accomplish any mission and has done so.

Honestly, not as bad as you might think. All the rifles mentioned are Winchester M70s, all have Accurate Innovations Stocks....... they are very straight in line with the bore, not much drop in the rear at all. This keeps muzzle flip and felt recoil down to a minimum. Also, the AI Stocks have a full length Aluminum Chassis that the action sits in, and the chassis runs up the forearm as well. This allows recoil to be distributed out and I think absorbs a lot of it before it gets to you........ Light, but extremely manageable. I have shot 1000s on top of 1000s of rounds from the bench with all of them, doing pressure data, load data, bullet terminals, the works and it is just not a problem. Or you just get used to it maybe.......Heh.......

 

[Doug Hamilton]

What would you choose? 9.3 doesn't count either.

A 416? 404? 458? Something bigger?

What and why?

I have had a Whitworth Express in .458 WM for over 40 years. I have taken two cape buffalo with it and have complete confidence in the rifle, I can't see a good reason to change now, so that's my answer.

If I had to change that, the .416 Rigby or Rem. Mag. would seem to be a good choice.

 

[6.5 wildcatter]

Undoubtedly my 404 Jeffery in a Pre-64 Winchester M-70. I that know with 400 grain CEB BBW#13 Safari Solid FPs it works on elephants. Using softs it’ll work on anything else that walks. Scoped it’s as accurate as any 375 I’ve personally shot and with open sights as fast as needed for follow ups. Modern safe loads take the 400 grain bullets to MV = 2500 fps.

A classical cartridge reborn because its fabled performance has finally been realized with modern bullets and powders. What more can you ask for but a heavy medium that performs like a big bore heavy yet can flatten the trajectory at any reasonable range that DG should be shot? And if the occasional 200-300 yd shot is encountered, a rifleman who knows his trajectory can hit the target as easily as he would with any 375.

BTW, I won’t give up my 375s, but carrying a bigger stick never hurts.

 

[colorado]

Why "Baby" of course. My 500 Jeffery. She's in the process of getting "dolled up" ebony forend, grip cap and darker finish.

 

[6.5 wildcatter]

As much as I like the various 458s and 500 NE 3”, all around duty with those cartridges leaves me a bit cold, to paraphrase JOC.

 

[Odinsraven]

404J - or 416 Rigby - the 404 makes a decent plainsgame rifle - so probably go with that !

 

[IvW]

One only......would be leaning towards a 404 Jeff with 420gr bullets....

 

[Surgeon1]

I can’t believe nobody has said 6.5Creedmoor! Lol

 

[SRvet]

I could console myself with a nice slick .458 Lott and a Swarovski 1-6 EE scope and am sure I could deal with any DG problems without worrying it was going to be inadequate!

 

[Hilux01]

Wow I am surprised to read through the posts from the past couple of months and see the increase in popularity for the old stall ward Jeffery. Mine done on M98 as a custom build and recently added the Aimpoint H2 Micro - will be testing things out in Aug with the red dot but seems pretty good on the range.

So as to answer the question - my 404 Jeff would probably be my go-to if I need to have only one that covers everything in size as well as stuff bulk, teeth and claws

 

[PerH]

If one have to think inside of components around , the .425 Express or .416 Taylor outside a .458 Win would be something to think of .
.425 is .404 in a .300 Win Mag case , perhaps a novelty , but it’s around and proven .
The Taylor also is the same and factory ammo
around and brass to make both from is
The same ones as starting point

 

[Gert Odendaal]

404 Jeffery with a 450gn North-Fork Cup Point Solid bullets( if there was such a bullet diameter available in the North Fork bullet range ) will be my choice of hunting combination if ever I will get the opportunity to hunt buffalo...will double as plains game hunts as well Eland , Blue wildebeest ...
Yes, I found the .423" bullet link for the Cup Point Solid..I do not think I am allowed to upload a link of a company here..

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Wow I am surprised to read through the posts from the past couple of months and see the increase in popularity for the old stall ward Jeffery. Mine done on M98 as a custom build and recently added the Aimpoint H2 Micro - will be testing things out in Aug with the red dot but seems pretty good on the range.

So as to answer the question - my 404 Jeff would probably be my go-to if I need to have only one that covers everything in size as well as stuff bulk, teeth and claws

View attachment 622463

The 404 Jeffery following took of at a fast tempo about 12 years back when I bought my Westley Richards 404 Jeffery from Mike White who used it in his days as Ranger ( Natal Parks Board ) if I am correct...the Westley Richards 404 Jeffery was made in 1931 owned by Mike`s mentor, given to Mike by his mentor , Mike re-barreled it in 1976, I bought the Wesley Richards 404 Jeffery in 2012 ,

I convinced Johan Greyling , owner of JS Gunsmith to start building 404 Jeffery working rifles as well as Mauser 8x68S working rifles..Johan build quite a few 404 Jeffery rifles and they were sold even before they were completed...

since then the 404 Jeffery rifle has grown exponentially , and continue even today ...this is happening on Africa Hunting .com here as well..

Here is a link to the 404 Jeffery that sparked the increased popularity of the 404 Jeffery following in South Africa and I believe here on Africa Hunting .com (I stand to be corrected}
https://www.africahunting.com/threads/my-404-jeffery-is-home.11009/

Another branching -out derivative of the 404 Jeffery link above..
https://www.africahunting.com/threads/fire-forming-375-h-h-magnum-to-423-404-jeffery.38766/