Old Kenyan Firearm Certificate

[Glenn Slaven]

Unfortunately I think they know a lot about them. You make it out like we don't fill out forms when we buy them and such.

Even if the background check isn’t deleted from system after 24 hours like it is supposed to be at least they only know if you bought a “handgun, long gun, or other”.

 

[Forrest Halley]

Even if the background check isn’t deleted from system after 24 hours like it is supposed to be at least they only know if you bought a “handgun, long gun, or other”.

Supposed to be. I trust the big G to be honest and upstanding in all things.

 

[Glenn Slaven]

Supposed to be. I trust the big G to be honest and upstanding in all things.

en I do a 4473 on someone all we tell is one of the three. They don’t know if I say long gun if it’s a SCAR-17 or a Ruger No 1. But I for sure don’t believe they purge the fact someone bought a gun like they are supposed to. I mean, who is really watching them? There really is no true oversight

 

[Dinosaur]

Something interesting to me that I just noticed. On page 23, Hamid Wallli Mohamed sold your grandfather a colt 45. Mohamed was an outfitter and PH of some repute. There are a number of photos of him throughout AH even though they may not be labeled. He seemed to specialize in large elephants along the Tana and the NFD from what I recall.

Wow, great stuff wheels, I thought that I had heard that name before, but it didn't click, now that is something for sure

Thank you for pointing it out, it's greatly appreciated. By the way, that is a great elephant that he has shot, what a trophy, and I am guessing it is from the Tana River, as its covered in red dust. Absolutely a great photo

By the way, my grandfather used to be in the Australian Military Police during World War II, served in North Africa, and across South Eastern Asia. He had a Colt 1911 .45 on his side throughout the service and became so familiar with it. On his farm at Thika, he regularly did trick shots for my mother by shooting birds in flight with one quick shot with the Colt 1911.

Some People are naturals at that, meanwhile I cannot shoot a pistol accurately at a stationary paper target, let alone a bird in flight. I will stick to revolvers, at least I can hit what I am aiming at.

Thank you for posting.

Regards
Rob

 

[Dinosaur]

Thanks for sharing you grandfathers Firarms Certificate.

You might be interested to learn that the Firarms certificate (License) is still very much physically unchanged in Kenya.
My Firarms certificate looks exactly the same as the on you posted, the wording on the front page is only slightly changed, to reflect Republic of Kenya.

Its still renewable on an annual basis and with the same details inside, it still requires a trip to the firms bureau in Nairobi for renewal.
This past year it was a more complex affair as all licensed firearms holders had to undergo vetting. This meant that we had to physically take all firms to be checked by the firearms board and then we were informed what we could keep and what we had to hand back, or put in storage with a dealer.
Once this was done each firearm had to be taken for ballistic testing. Talk about jumping through hoops.

By the way, The firearms certificate for Tanzania is similar to the one in Kenya, but each firearm has its own license, so if you have 3 guns you must have 3 firearms certificates.
However thanks again and to nice to see some of the history from your family.
Cheers..

G'day Swara, it's pretty interesting to hear that the Kenyan & Tanzania licenses is more or less unchanged.

When you mentioned ballistic testing, what does that actually involve?

Are they just confirming that your firearm is safe and sound to shoot? Or taking more detailed information in case your firearm is involved in a possible crime ?

Thank you posting

Regards

Rob

 

[Wheels]

Wow, great stuff wheels, I thought that I had heard that name before, but it didn't click, now that is something for sure

Thank you for pointing it out, it's greatly appreciated. By the way, that is a great elephant that he has shot, what a trophy, and I am guessing it is from the Tana River, as its covered in red dust. Absolutely a great photo

By the way, my grandfather used to be in the Australian Military Police during World War II, served in North Africa, and across South Eastern Asia. He had a Colt 1911 .45 on his side throughout the service and became so familiar with it. On his farm at Thika, he regularly did trick shots for my mother by shooting birds in flight with one quick shot with the Colt 1911.

Some People are naturals at that, meanwhile I cannot shoot a pistol accurately at a stationary paper target, let alone a bird in flight. I will stick to revolvers, at least I can hit what I am aiming at.

Thank you for posting.

Regards
Rob

Impressive shooting by your grandfather. When I was a youngster, I saw a man in his 60's shoot a 17 on a skeet range with a .22. I believe his best was a 22, with a .22. It seems trick shooting is a skill we are loosing as a society.

This photo was supplied by @JudyB Walli Mohamed is on the ground in the center of the photo next to Tony Dyer. To be honest, I get Mohamed Balli and Walli Mohamed confused. When I said there is quite a bit of information within the AH forums, I was confusing Balli with Walli. I don't think there is as much about Walli Mohamed.

EAPHA AGM in Nairobi Kenya in 1971
Here's a photograph I thought I would also share on this thread. It's a group photo taken after the EAPHA AGM in Nairobi in 1971. I took the minutes! Last year Robin Hurt helped me verify some of the names. Think I'm the only one who kept the photo. Missing from the photo: Syd Downey, Donald Ker, Tony Seth-Smith and David Mead, who were on safari at the time. Standing (L to R) Bill Ryan, Terry Mathews, John Sutton, Tony Maxtone-Mailer, Bob Reitnauer, Bunny Ray, Brian Coleman, David Ommanney, Rene Babault, Chris Roberts, Patrick Gilbert-Hopkins, Tony France Lee Giraudo, (part hidden)?, Judy Blaeske, Brian Herne, John Alexander, Robin Hurt, Mike Webley, John Lawrence, Mike Keilly, Guy Grant, Kevin Torrens, Freddy Seed, Jens Hessel, Alfredo Pellizoli, ?, Alfie von Ausberg, Steve Smith, Laddy Wincza, ?, Mike Hissey, Ken Clark. Seated (L to R) Peter De Mello, Chris Lyon, Theo Potgeiter, Tony Dyer, Wali Mohamed, Gideon Kago, Nicky Blunt, Edgar De Bono, Dave Williams, Glen Cottar Bill Winter, Ray Palfrey.

 

[sestoppelman]

Here is my import license for Tanzania in 1985. Note how they spelled Whitworth. Also owing no doubt to the German history and my German last name, they added an n on the end of it, as it would be spelled in German with 2 n's.

 

[SWARA]

@Dino...
The Ballistics tests are so the firearms can supposedly be traced in case of criminal activity.
I had to take my firearms to the police ballistics lab and they carry out the tests.

Walli Mohamed, owned a gun shop of Nairobi for many years, so its not unusual to find ammunition or firms transfered onto a permit.
Its been a few years since I was at his place as its little out of the way f0r me, but am its still there combined with a metal fabrication shop in the back. Now that you jog my memory I am still using the gun safe he made for me.
I have added some photos of my current firearms license for both Kenya and TZ, am sure you can see its very much unchanged.

 

[spike.t]

@SWARA how did they decide what you could keep and what you had to hand in or store....and the difference in handing in or storing....does that mean handed in lost/destroyed...and did you have to hand any in?

 

[SWARA]

@Spike, I think they used a crystal ball to decide or pehaps spin the bottle. Because there was no logic to it.
I had to deposit my .416 with a dealer because they struck it off my license. So now if I go out I only have my .223 to sting Buffalos with.
I have a Benelli M4 shotgun with a 14 inch barrel and collapsible stock and they didn't blink at that, it was fine. The 9mm pistol was Ok as in there words, I need to have something to carry concealed. The .223 was a little bit of a joke as when they saw it was a .223 they were expecting that it was an automatic but when they noticed it was a bolt rifle they were OK. The .416 was deemed by them an inappropriate caliber despite my objections.
I have gone in to the licensing office two times to have it reinstated and even logged an offical letter but they still will not let me license it. I have been chased twice by buffalo since, and I told them if I get killed then they can expect an angry wife to come after them.
I have the same .416 on my TZ license so I will take down to TZ when the season opens, thats If the borders are open by then. To answer you on the handing in of a firearm. They can decide to just take it, or they can let you store it with a dealer, once again I'm not sure the logic applied, but perhaps I'm trying to hard.
Best...

 

[spike.t]

@Spike, I think they used a crystal ball to decide or pehaps spin the bottle. Because there was no logic to it.
I had to deposit my .416 with a dealer because they struck it off my license. So now if I go out I only have my .223 to sting Buffalos with.
I have a Benelli M4 shotgun with a 14 inch barrel and collapsible stock and they didn't blink at that, it was fine. The 9mm pistol was Ok as in there words, I need to have something to carry concealed. The .223 was a little bit of a joke as when they saw it was a .223 they were expecting that it was an automatic but when they noticed it was a bolt rifle they were OK. The .416 was deemed by them an inappropriate caliber despite my objections.
I have gone in to the licensing office two times to have it reinstated and even logged an offical letter but they still will not let me license it. I have been chased twice by buffalo since, and I told them if I get killed then they can expect an angry wife to come after them.
I have the same .416 on my TZ license so I will take down to TZ when the season opens, thats If the borders are open by then. To answer you on the handing in of a firearm. They can decide to just take it, or they can let you store it with a dealer, once again I'm not sure the logic applied, but perhaps I'm trying to hard.
Best...

Yup seriously jacked up logic applied there...wonder why 416 is inappropriate ...if they won't put it back on licence will it be an issue getting it to Tanzania?...and I heard it was night on impossible to get handguns on licence there.....and how are the gun shops there?

 

[broncolcj]

At least 3/4's of mine were legally acquired without benefit of a FFL.

I truly envy you sir

 

[SWARA]

@ Spike, It should not be an issue to get the rifle from Kenya to TZ then back to Kenya. I can get a temperary permit to possess (TPP) and I still have my Kenyan import export permit, which has no expiry date. I can drive across at Namanga as on the TZ side they don't usefully care, but its licensed there anyway. Lots of guys that had two or more pistols had to hand them back or deposit them in storage as they are only allowing one pistol per license.

 

[spike.t]

@ Spike, It should not be an issue to get the rifle from Kenya to TZ then back to Kenya. I can get a temperary permit to possess (TPP) and I still have my Kenyan import export permit, which has no expiry date. I can drive across at Namanga as on the TZ side they don't usefully care, but its licensed there anyway. Lots of guys that had two or more pistols had to hand them back or deposit them in storage as they are only allowing one pistol per license.

Ok good to hear you can have at least one handgun...

 

[Wheels]

@Spike, I think they used a crystal ball to decide or pehaps spin the bottle. Because there was no logic to it.
I had to deposit my .416 with a dealer because they struck it off my license. So now if I go out I only have my .223 to sting Buffalos with.
I have a Benelli M4 shotgun with a 14 inch barrel and collapsible stock and they didn't blink at that, it was fine. The 9mm pistol was Ok as in there words, I need to have something to carry concealed. The .223 was a little bit of a joke as when they saw it was a .223 they were expecting that it was an automatic but when they noticed it was a bolt rifle they were OK. The .416 was deemed by them an inappropriate caliber despite my objections.
I have gone in to the licensing office two times to have it reinstated and even logged an offical letter but they still will not let me license it. I have been chased twice by buffalo since, and I told them if I get killed then they can expect an angry wife to come after them.
I have the same .416 on my TZ license so I will take down to TZ when the season opens, thats If the borders are open by then. To answer you on the handing in of a firearm. They can decide to just take it, or they can let you store it with a dealer, once again I'm not sure the logic applied, but perhaps I'm trying to hard.
Best...

It is my understanding that there was a central depository that many firearms were stored in when the government made hunters turn in their firearms. Is this still the case?

 

[SWARA]

@Wheels, There is still storage with Central Firearms Bureau in Nairobi. Although most would prefer to store firearms with a licensed dealer.

 

[Wheels]

@Wheels, There is still storage with Central Firearms Bureau in Nairobi. Although most would prefer to store firearms with a licensed dealer.

Was it around 1977 when they stopped hunting that they initially made people to give up guns?

 

[Dinosaur]

This photo was supplied by @JudyB Walli Mohamed is on the ground in the center of the photo next to Tony Dyer. To be honest, I get Mohamed Balli and Walli Mohamed confused. When I said there is quite a bit of information within the AH forums, I was confusing Balli with Walli. I don't think there is as much about Walli Mohamed.

G'day Wheels, no problem about the confusion, it is still interesting to match a name with a face, and boy, I am still impressed with the photo of Walli and his fine tusker, so thankyou for that.

Also thank you for including the EAPHA AGM photo, as there are other names that I have come across before, yes we are lucky that we have @JudyB on the site

As for name confusion, in all honesty, I suffer the same problem, I always get Osama Bin Laden, and Barack Obama mixed up, and end up saying Obama Bin Laden, all you can do is laugh, and I wouldn't support either of them.

By the way, I have only seen trick shots done on the TV, or internet, you are lucky to see the pro with the .22, I heard that some of the old western trick shots used shot cartridges in their firearms, but even if it is so, a pistol round wouldn't hold to much shot and would still be spectacular.

Regards

Rob

 

[Dinosaur]

Here is my import license for Tanzania in 1985. Note how they spelled Whitworth. Also owing no doubt to the German history and my German last name, they added an n on the end of it, as it would be spelled in German with 2 n's.

G'day Sestoppelman

Great stuff, it's hard to get rid of keepsakes like your import licence, it will always bring back fond memories.

80 x .375 H&H rounds, I am surprised they didn't ask you for a bribe, as you gotta be rich to purchase that many rounds.

By the way, your German surname name is totally fitting for Tanzania, previously German East Africa

Thank you for sharing

Regards

Rob

 

[Dinosaur]

Walli Mohamed, owned a gun shop of Nairobi for many years, so its not unusual to find ammunition or firms transfered onto a permit.
Its been a few years since I was at his place as its little out of the way f0r me, but am its still there combined with a metal fabrication shop in the back. Now that you jog my memory I am still using the gun safe he made for me.
I have added some photos of my current firearms license for both Kenya and TZ, am sure you can see its very much unchanged.

G'day Swara

Thank you for posting the images of your current License, you are right, it does look similar

It's not hear that the shop is still there, I honestly thought that 'Progress' would have the old shop destroyed and replaced with a modern building and owned by a different company.

To have memories of 'Walli' in the form of a gun safe, now that is something, that is history for sure, congratulations on that.

Thank you for sharing.

Regards

Rob