Not A Warm Welcome!!

[dchum]

Ah heck, I liked the above and can't undo it,
I don't see any trophy value in the two named species so would not care to shoot one.
YMMV.
Go for it, Buckwheat.

Ah I see, Trophy value... It aint got no big ol horns like you like huh?

Just generally curious on your reasoning

 

[Ryan]

Why would you want to shoot a giraffe? I don't get zebras either.

Who would want to hunt so many animals.

It's perception in both cases. The giraffe because of that neck and the zebra because it's a horse. I took both on my first hunt, and looking back that was probably number one and two on my list. To anyone who has been shocked about a giraffe hunt I have called it a long necked moose. It's makes them pause and think. They're both browsers, one just happens to seem more human because of that neck. Have you tried sneaking up on something with it's head 15 feet up? It's not easy. Zebra is a grazer, so are bison and elk, and few people have issue hunting those two. Zebra are tough, smart animals. And trust me zebra tastes great, I have had a ZLT.

 

[freefall]

Why not just shoot a cow, if you just want to kill sometning? I hunt mainly for food, maybe for a trophy (never yet) but if you just want to kill something pay somebody for a cow in a pen.

 

[Ryan]

Why not just shoot a cow, if you just want to kill sometning? I hunt mainly for food, maybe for a trophy (never yet) but if you just want to kill something pay somebody for a cow in a pen.

Because we don't just want to just kill something, we want to hunt it. For some odd reason people seperate food and trophy hunting. You can do both at the same time. I had a goal of a mature bull on my first caribou fly out hunt. I got it, but trust me it filled my freezer well and tasted as good as a few other 'bou I've taken. Same with my Dall sheep. Not an ounce of edible meat remained on the hillside a dozen years ago. He graces my wall to this day.

As for hunting in Africa, I get to hunt and eat it while I'm there. The rest of the meat goes to others. Not an ounce is wasted.

 

[375Fox]

Why not just shoot a cow, if you just want to kill sometning? I hunt mainly for food, maybe for a trophy (never yet) but if you just want to kill something pay somebody for a cow in a pen.

You’ve clearly never been to Africa and apparently have no intention to since you can’t bring meat home. You should research the conservation model in Africa before making these statements. Putting value on an animal is the only thing that will keep populations alive (whether that be hunting or photographic). The pressure on land from rising human populations doesn’t exist in North America (at least no where near seen in Africa). Most of the local population in Africa would hold similar values you placing a high emphasis on meat hunting and none on trophy hunting. They would also kill every animal for that meat while replacing the land use with cattle. Hunting animals only for meat in Africa makes them less valuable than cattle. I’d much rather hunt a trophy wild zebra or wild giraffe and keep the domestic cattle out.

 

[375Fox]

"When done correctly". With that I agree 100%

But you deflected off the topic of who is wounding more deer onto "Bows can kill as good as guns....IF DONE CORRECTLY". This glosses over the points I brought up above....that there are a lot of guys out there shooting arrows at animals that are just honestly not proficient with their bows. Guys that are not true "Bow Hunters" but do in fact go hunting with their bows. Bows that they have not shot very much. They just take a few shots with their bow right before opening day of bow season and then go hunting out of a stand with their bows so they can hunt more.

THAT sums up a helluva lot of "bow hunters" and those guys wound a helluva lot of deer. Way more percentage wise than gun hunters.

So yea, a double lung shot deer dies just as quick if not quicker with a bow as a gun. THE PROBLEM is there are lot of guys out there hunting with bows and shooting at deer at ranges of which they are much less likely to make a clean double lung shot. And they are doing it when there is no snow on the ground to help them track.

The demand for tracking dogs in the state I hunt (Michigan) is off the charts during bow season. And not very high during gun season. There is a reason for that. Most of the guys out hunting are way better at shooting their guns than they are their bows.

As I stated above....guys that are true "Bow Hunters" and are skilled enough to stalk game on foot and get within bow range....those guys are in a whole different class than the guy who is a gun hunter that also shoots at animals with a bow. Those guys shoot their bows a lot if not year around and I have the utmost respect for those guys.

This is my initial thought as well. The study Rookhawk posted made me think. I really think I find as many wounded/lost deer in rifle season as I do in archery season. There is nothing I hate more than hearing 4 or 5 quick shots at last light on a Saturday evening because I know they are shooting at a running deer at end of field likely wounding. I can believe archery and rifle might have overall similar wounding rates, but what I see is bad archery hunters have a long season and keep wounding deer. I’ve never heard of a terrible rifle hunter wounding 3 deer in Pennsylvania, but I know of unethical archery hunters who have done that on multiple seasons. I think that one terrible archery hunter can do a lot of damage in a small area and it can be very evident. My dad was and my brother is a very dedicated bow hunter. My brother has never wounded a deer and my dad only ever wounded a doe many years ago. There have been multiple next day searches though.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

and why not? They are both beautiful creatures, just like all my favorite game.
Ill be going for mountain zebra in Namibia come May. Ive heard getting in range of a nice stallion will be one of the more challenging hunts. I never got the no Zebra thing? You are not in your home land!! its not your pet horse...!

Hartmann’s Zebra for me next year as well!

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

This is my initial thought as well. The study Rookhawk posted made me think. I really think I find as many wounded/lost deer in rifle season as I do in archery season. There is nothing I hate more than hearing 4 or 5 quick shots at last light on a Saturday evening because I know they are shooting at a running deer at end of field likely wounding. I can believe archery and rifle might have overall similar wounding rates, but what I see is bad archery hunters have a long season and keep wounding deer. I’ve never heard of a terrible rifle hunter wounding 3 deer in Pennsylvania, but I know of unethical archery hunters who have done that on multiple seasons. I think that one terrible archery hunter can do a lot of damage in a small area and it can be very evident. My dad was and my brother is a very dedicated bow hunter. My brother has never wounded a deer and my dad only ever wounded a doe many years ago. There have been multiple next day searches though.

Last year I was sitting there on opening morning and as soon as visibility was halfway decent it sounded like a war zone. It always does, but one guy had to have a AR of some sort because I heard a string of around 5 shots with a split second in between each. I cringed thinking about what situation necessitated that and what the results were. Maybe hogs showed up lol

 

[rookhawk]

Why would you want to shoot a giraffe? I don't get zebras either.

Specifically to zebra, because they are a game animal that is challenging and delicious.

The bigger question is how people got brainwashed to think equine species weren’t food? The French, Austrians, and Germans still know they are food. Somehow Americans got brainwashed into thinking all equines were pets which has caused them countless misery and suffering being dumped on federal lands.

As to giraffe, it’s closest relatives are the Okapi and the American Pronghorn. Are they allowed to be hunted or do we have an unwritten rule based upon some standard to decide what is and isn’t in the sportsman’s list of species?

Not trying to harass you, I’m just trying to redpill you. Explain why they wouldn’t be as suitable for food and sport as any other herbivore.

 

[raamw]

I did a brown Bear hunt in Alaska a few years back, while talking with the guide of 20 years I asked him what he thought of Bow hunting Browns, he was frank about this topic and put the hunter on notice that they should bring a rifle in the evet they can't convince him that they where qualified to bow hunt a Brown, over the years several looked for other guides, several left the bow behind and several failed to convince him and used a rifle.

 

[MAdcox]

Why not just shoot a cow, if you just want to kill sometning? I hunt mainly for food, maybe for a trophy (never yet) but if you just want to kill something pay somebody for a cow in a pen.

If you really like to hunt for food and not just kill, Zebra should be at the top of your list. Very challenging, very rewarding, and wonderful on the plate. I've taken Burchell and Hartmann and they are two of my best hunt memories as well as two of my favorite meals around the campfire.

 

[SFRanger7GP]

Interesting thread, for sure. Don't be so easily offended Huntforever. You have already proven you are fully capable of taking dangerous game with a bow. By the way, nice bull in your avatar.

Disclaimer: no longer a bowhunter. I started out with a compound bow and later went to a traditional longbow that I used for years. I never lost an animal that I hit with an arrow. Had a couple really long and frustrating days following up a bad shot, but never lost an animal. I also limited myself to shots of 25 yards and under with the longbow and used arrows that looked like mini-spears.

I think the study that Rookhawk kindly shared just means what it means. Sloppy, unethical hunters don't generally own up to their failures (such as wounding game and not following up) regardless of the weapon being used. My experience is that a lot of "hunters" believe an animal is missed (or barely wounded) if it doesn't drop insight or leave a huge blood trail. These are the ones that bring a bad name to hunting and I can't see them participating in a true survey.

freefall: With very few exceptions, nobody hunts "just for food". It makes ZERO economic sense. I have trouble stifling my laughter when I hear (or read) that BS from guys driving $60K+ 4x4 trucks. Unless you are one of those genuine true exceptions, the food is just a wonderful reward that we can enjoy post hunt (or share with those less fortunate). I hunt for "just food" with a Rigby sometimes.

Our weapon of choice is only as lethal as the person using it. One of our greatest responsibilities as hunters is to minimize the risk of causing undue suffering to our prey regardless of the kit we are using.

Safe hunting!

 

[mrpoindexter]

Not every trophy is something that can be entered into a record book. My latest hunt, one of the top items for me to get was a honey badger. Trophy value is in the eye of the hunter, not in the record book.

I ate some of my giraffe, but it wasn't very good. There is no way I am going to eat a honey badger.

 

[rookhawk]

Not every trophy is something that can be entered into a record book. My latest hunt, one of the top items for me to get was a honey badger. Trophy value is in the eye of the hunter, not in the record book.

Not even record book animals get entered into the record books.

If I had a $1 for every "top-10" animal I've seen on somebody's wall that ranked "2nd, 5th, 10th" in the world but they didn't enter it in the book I'd be a millionaire. The actual world-records probably exceed those in the books. Most people don't pay $30 to $70 to enter their animals into the book so there's that.

My definition of a trophy is really about maximizing animal utility. My kid's first buck with a bow was a one-horn spike. Yes, we ate the animal. Yes we saved the throat patch for fly tying. Yes, we made a bottle opener that sits on the bar cart with the one horn. It's no different with Zebra, Giraffe, or any other animal. Is the animal fully utilized or is there waste? Was it an ethical and challenging hunt? Did you enjoy the hunt and did someone benefit from the resources harvested? Did the species as a whole benefit from the killing of the specific animal hunted?

 

[mrpoindexter]

There are differing views on the purpose of a record book. The book was originally started by Rowland Ward and it was just a measure of trophy quality to see if the size of horns was stable or falling over time. The original purpose was not for bragging but just to see how the animal horn size fared over time. I think there is a huge amount of conservation value in that to find if we are overhunting a species.

Some people look at it as bragging rights. There I think it where it gets a bad reputation and a tarnished image. I do still have a top 10 that needs to be submitted but I need a master measurer first so it is a little more of a hoop to jump through for top entries. I actually have a lot to still enter into the books, but I will be doing a bulk entry at some time in the future.

 

[dchum]

Why not just shoot a cow, if you just want to kill sometning? I hunt mainly for food, maybe for a trophy (never yet) but if you just want to kill something pay somebody for a cow in a pen.

what a shite comment. I know understand your logic... You have none!! . I hope I don’t get in trouble for saying this, but I don’t think this website is really for you. You seem to already be set in your ways and seem non interested on hunting Africa.

 

[TERMINATOR]

what a shite comment. I know understand your logic... You have none!! . I hope I don’t get in trouble for saying this, but I don’t think this website is really for you. You seem to already be set in your ways and seem non interested on hunting Africa.

I was trying to understand why this person is on AH myself, so you are not alone

 

[mrpoindexter]

At the risk of piling on, count me in the herd with the two above me.

 

[rookhawk]

There are differing views on the purpose of a record book. The book was originally started by Rowland Ward and it was just a measure of trophy quality to see if the size of horns was stable or falling over time. The original purpose was not for bragging but just to see how the animal horn size fared over time. I think there is a huge amount of conservation value in that to find if we are overhunting a species.

Some people look at it as bragging rights. There I think it where it gets a bad reputation and a tarnished image. I do still have a top 10 that needs to be submitted but I need a master measurer first so it is a little more of a hoop to jump through for top entries. I actually have a lot to still enter into the books, but I will be doing a bulk entry at some time in the future.

@mrpoindexter I completely agree with you. IF the various groups were doing record books for the specific claimed purpose, they would give you an anonymized hunter ID# 123456 and your entries in the book would be free, specifically to show the quality of resources over time. But of course that's not why the books exist as people pay over $25,000 to get their entries into the books to obtain many of the "slam" awards. Buying awards is akin to buying noble titles...some people do it, most do not.

Regarding @freefall I believe he's an Alaskan? I think we cut him some slack. We all bring our notions and biases to hunting. What is "normal" in the tundra is not the same as normal New Mexico, or Michigan. Trying to apply our hunting experiences to an entirely different continent is beyond many mind's ability to comprehend. I'd like to remind everyone that Joe Rogan, Randy Newberg, and Steve Rinella have never been to Africa. Their comments were neutral on the topic or negative. They don't understand it and they don't want to pay to try to experience it. I get that, there are many people that never order something new off the menu at a restaurant because they're paralyzed by the idea they may not like it. It's life-experience limiting to think this way, but that's why people come to AH to try and figure it all out before they drop "Car money" on a hunting trip.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

@mrpoindexter I completely agree with you. IF the various groups were doing record books for the specific claimed purpose, they would give you an anonymized hunter ID# 123456 and your entries in the book would be free, specifically to show the quality of resources over time. But of course that's not why the books exist as people pay over $25,000 to get their entries into the books to obtain many of the "slam" awards. Buying awards is akin to buying noble titles...some people do it, most do not.

Regarding @freefall I believe he's an Alaskan? I think we cut him some slack. We all bring our notions and biases to hunting. What is "normal" in the tundra is not the same as normal New Mexico, or Michigan. Trying to apply our hunting experiences to an entirely different continent is beyond many mind's ability to comprehend. I'd like to remind everyone that Joe Rogan, Randy Newberg, and Steve Rinella have never been to Africa. Their comments were neutral on the topic or negative. They don't understand it and they don't want to pay to try to experience it. I get that, there are many people that never order something new off the menu at a restaurant because they're paralyzed by the idea they may not like it. It's life-experience limiting to think this way, but that's why people come to AH to try and figure it all out before they drop "Car money" on a hunting trip.

Rinella probably railed against colonialism in some fashion when discussing hunting Africa