Nosler bullet problem 45 acp & others

[Ridge Runner]

I decided to get a different...better??...bullet for my .45 auto to reload, so I went with Nosler JHP in 230 grain, as 230 grain is my preferred bullet weight.

The problem is the copper plating at the base is:

1) Not cylintrical
2) Too often a ring of copper (or piece of) is sheered away....much like loading a lead round ball into a black powder revolver.
3) when some of the bullets seat it causes the brass to flare/bulge
4) the case is crushed... Thus far I've destroyed about a dozen cases while trying to reload 100-150 rounds

The only solution I have come up with is to file away at the bullet base to get them reasonably cylintrical and to .451 diameter....thus far....out of a box of 250 count....40 bullets, including the 10 waiting to be filed.

Has anyone else reloading Nosler bullets have or had this problem?

After I finish this box of Nosler bullets, I'm going back to Magnus bullets, never had these problems with Magnus or Hornady.

 

[sestoppelman]

The bullets should be jacketed, not plated. I have used them with no problems in my .45's.

Have you checked the diameter of these bullets to see if they might be oversized? By not cylindrical do you mean they are out of round in diameter?

Are you properly expanding and belling the case mouth? If you don't bell enough you will have these kinds of issues. Sounds like that may be your problem.
Keep us posted.

 

[Ridge Runner]

My bad...I stand corrected... I meant to say jacket, not plated.

Accordingly, these are suppose to be .451 diameter. It's like a micro tear drop of .0005 - .00065 off one side. Meaning : measure noon and six o'clock (if not the bad side) the bullet diameter is .4505 - .4515 inches. Contrary measure: 3 and 9 o'clock the bullet diameter is .4516 - .4518.

Yes & Yes: each case is:

1) deprimed
2) put into the trumbler for polishing,
3) deburred and chaffered, measured and if required trimmed, deburred and chaffered
4) resized and primed
5) expand and individually weigh each powder charge
6) bullet seated and each cartridge measured
7) boxed up, labeled and shelved

Hornady HAP and Magnus .451 (.4505 - .4515) reloaded smoothly. Over the last year this is my second (and third yet to be opened) 250 count box of Nosler 45 ACP bullets I've used to reload. I had the same problem with the first box, I lost 30 - 40 cases reloading.

I don't mind losing the brass, but I do mind the accumulating cost of primers.

The powder from a crushed case is re weighed and dumped into another prepped case.

It has gotten to the point I have to feel around each bullet base with my thumb and fore finger, to check for any abnormally. If I feel any abnormally I use my thumb or finger nail to verify the is abnormal and toss it in the "to be filed" pile. These bullets after being filed get loaded and boxed as rejects (just something to shoot at the range).

 

[sestoppelman]

Well if you are properly belling, (not just expanding) the case mouth and still having this issue, and the bullets appear to be out of round, I would stop fighting them and file them in the nearest round receptacle. Why fight it? Send them back to Nosler, probably get some free bullets.
Under the for what its worth heading. I don't think I have ever trimmed pistol brass in my life. Usually not something that's needed.

 

[Spooksar]

Sounds like your not belling your cases enough, half a thousands of an inch shouldn’t be a problem. Considering most cast bullets are 1-2 thousands oversized and they don’t cause any problems.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Well if you are properly belling, (not just expanding) the case mouth and still having this issue, and the bullets appear to be out of round, I would stop fighting them and file them in the nearest round receptacle. Why fight it? Send them back to Nosler, probably get some free bullets.
Under the for what its worth heading. I don't think I have ever trimmed pistol brass in my life. Usually not something that's needed.

I purchased some Hornady brass awhile back on sale in 45 ACP and 44 Rem Mag, a lot, if not most all had to be trimmed.

Went back to using Starline brass, now my trimmer sits and waits for an occasional new Norma or Winchester rifle brass.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Sounds like your not belling your cases enough, half a thousands of an inch shouldn’t be a problem. Considering most cast bullets are 1-2 thousands oversized and they don’t cause any problems.

These are jacketed bullets, its the copper jacket at the very bottom edge of the bullet base that seems to be the problem.

 

[sestoppelman]

Take a couple of good close up pix of the bullets in question and post them here, perhaps we can better understand the problem. But if it were me I would talk with Nosler and see what they say. Sometimes stuff gets out the door that shouldn't.

 

[Shootist43]

Ridge Runner I shoot Bullseye and have a 45 ACP in my hands twice a week on average. Give Zero Bullets a try. If interested, send me a PM and I'll give you a number to call. Unless you are in the business you will have to go through Rose Distributing. Virtually all of the "top guns" in the country are now using Zero Bullets.

 

[sestoppelman]

I usually buy whats on sale, but ZERO are good and I have used them.

 

[perttime]

If your bullets are not round, they are not going to work.
I've had no trouble seating PLATED .45ACP, .357Mag or 9mm - as long as the expansion/belling on the reloading machine is working adequately. Last time I had trouble was when a part on my ancient powder system (same station as expander) broke and the first symptom was cases not belling properly. Dillon had a spare on the way to me the next working day.

 

[fourfive8]

Just thinking out loud here. Doesn't seem like a bullet problem. Even though 45 ACP brass doesn't really consistently lengthen much from shooting, some of it can or can be a little long to begin with. If the seating die is set too low (deep), then it's possible the crimping shoulder, even if it is a long tapered crimping shoulder specifically for the ACP, is trying to start the crimp process before the bullet starts fully. Maybe not the problem but it sure is easy to check. Just back the seating die out to where the crimp shoulder is no where near contacting the mouth or neck then try seating a bullet. For the ACP you don't want too much bell in mouth anyway as that makes it hard to take the bell out later. Plus you want good tight neck tension since there is no crimp groove and certainly shouldn't be a roll crimp on the round anyway... because it headspaces on the mouth.

A solution, if any of the above causes are possible, would be to trim all brass to correct ACP length. True and chamfer the case mouths- inside and only enough on the outside to remove burs. Back out seating die to avoid any crimping during the seating process- even if it has a long tapered shoulder designed for the ACP. Seat a few bullets to test that process. Then in a last step, after the bullets are fully seated, use a specific 45 ACP taper crimp die adjusted to just barely swage the neck/mouth back into full contact with the bullet shank. It is a separate die and is not a seating w/ taper crimp die. I know it adds an extra step, but after I started using that system for loading 45 ACP... zero problems!! I think Redding, Lyman and Hornady, among others maybe, make that die. Like I said, just thinking out loud.

Lyman 45 ACP/Colt taper crimp die

 

[sestoppelman]

His problem is getting the bullet started into the case without crumpling it. He has not replied about how much he does bell the case and yes, like anything it can be overdone, but it shore do make getting the bullet started easier with a bit of flare. I still think that's the biggest culprit here but we will have to see....

I use a LEE factory crimp die to both lightly push the flare back in, slightly crimp and also sizes the whole round to spec, which is nice for tight chambers.

 

[Forrest Halley]

Well this sure is a heartbreak. Reloading .45 ACP is quite possibly the easiest caliber. The only brass I ever crushed reliably to the point of cussing it over the berm was AGUILA which was softer than I liked. If your projectiles are out of round, you're wasting your time.

If you're heartbroken about the primers put on safety glasses and earmuffs and gently push the cases into the sizer and get them back. A lot of folks say don't do this, but I've never had a problem with it. The only primers I've ever popped were in a Lee loader kit while trying to seat them and they were forty years old. Mind you don't do this with cases that might snag or collapse round the decapping pin.

 

[sestoppelman]

I de cap live primers all the time in my RCBS de capping die.

 

[Forrest Halley]

I de cap live primers all the time in my RCBS de capping die.

It appears we're both crazy. But do you have a primer pocket cleaner and uniformer within easy reach?

 

[sestoppelman]

Of course. Not crazy, deliberate and cautious.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Just thinking out loud here. Doesn't seem like a bullet problem. Even though 45 ACP brass doesn't really consistently lengthen much from shooting, some of it can or can be a little long to begin with. If the seating die is set too low (deep), then it's possible the crimping shoulder, even if it is a long tapered crimping shoulder specifically for the ACP, is trying to start the crimp process before the bullet starts fully. Maybe not the problem but it sure is easy to check. Just back the seating die out to where the crimp shoulder is no where near contacting the mouth or neck then try seating a bullet. For the ACP you don't want too much bell in mouth anyway as that makes it hard to take the bell out later. Plus you want good tight neck tension since there is no crimp groove and certainly shouldn't be a roll crimp on the round anyway... because it headspaces on the mouth.

A solution, if any of the above causes are possible, would be to trim all brass to correct ACP length. True and chamfer the case mouths- inside and only enough on the outside to remove burs. Back out seating die to avoid any crimping during the seating process- even if it has a long tapered shoulder designed for the ACP. Seat a few bullets to test that process. Then in a last step, after the bullets are fully seated, use a specific 45 ACP taper crimp die adjusted to just barely swage the neck/mouth back into full contact with the bullet shank. It is a separate die and is not a seating w/ taper crimp die. I know it adds an extra step, but after I started using that system for loading 45 ACP... zero problems!! I think Redding, Lyman and Hornady, among others maybe, make that die. Like I said, just thinking out loud.

Lyman 45 ACP/Colt taper crimp die

View attachment 321297

I have a separate crimp die that came with my Lee die set. I may have used it on 20 test rounds while working up loads a couple years ago, haven't used it since.

 

[Ridge Runner]

you're heartbroken about the primers put on safety glasses and earmuffs and gently push the cases into the sizer and get them back. A lot of folks say don't do this, but I've never had a problem with it. The only primers I've ever popped were in a Lee loader kit while trying to seat them and they were forty years old. Mind you don't do this with cases that might snag or collapse round the decapping pin.

In the past I have removed primers from bad, damaged cases to reuse, but to many times the primers, (even though didn't show any damage), failed to go off, resulting in me having to pull the bullets, dumping the powder, removing the bad primer and reloading again.

Now I just toss the case(s) saving myself any additional unnecessary problems, and having more confidence that the round will go off when the firing pin hits the primer.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Take a couple of good close up pix of the bullets in question and post them here, perhaps we can better understand the problem. But if it were me I would talk with Nosler and see what they say. Sometimes stuff gets out the door that shouldn't.

I'm trying to get some good pics. As soon as I can get quality pics I will post them so you all can get a better idea of the problem I having with these Nosler bullets.

It will try to have pics posted tomorrow (01/01).