New To Reloading Need Beginner Help

[bruce moulds]

One thing new guys in reloading tend to do is to try and squeeze out every last FPS of velocity they can. If you're one of those guys who likes pushing the edge, that may be fun for you. If you just want to roll your own cartridges to get better precision than you can out of typical factory ammo, it's a waste of both time and money, and potentially dangerous.

The reason 100 or maybe even 200 fps doesn't make a lot of difference for me is because I sight my hunting rifles in for Maximum Point Blank Range for my given quarry. Using MPBR, nearly all modern, shouldered cartridges are "flat" shooting out to 250 or 300 yards; modern magnums can extend this to 325 or even 350 for bigger ruminants like moose and elk.

When working up a new load, this is the first place I start my research to figure out what it is I should be trying to accomplish: http://www.shooterscalculator.com/point-blank-range.php

We can start with one my pet loads for my 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser. Shooting Hornady ELD-X 143 gr, BC .625, at an 8" vital zone (white tail deer), I find that the difference between 2500 fps and 2600 fps is an additional 10 yards of MPBR, from 286 yards at 2500, to 296 yards at 2600 fps. Understanding this, when I started stacking bullets at 2500 fps very early in load development, I quit trying to improve velocity because it wasn't going to be any more accurate or lethal than what I already had.

Even more:

to reach a 286 yd MPBR at 2500 fps, I need to be 3.63" high at 100 yards, which gives me a far zero of 242 yards
to reach 296 yd MPBR at 2600 fps, I need to be 3.54" high at 100 yards, which gives me a far zero of 251 yards.

Heck, you might hit a mosquito in mid-flight which might deflect your shot as much as 9 hundredths. If you have a micrometer (should have one as a standard part of your kit), you'd still have a difficult time discerning the difference. The act of measuring your groups with a micrometer introduces a greater potential for variance that you'll get out of 2500 vs 2600 for this load.

Given that in any string of 20 cartridges you roll, you might get as many as 4 or 5 cartridges at exactly 2500 fps. You'll have a variance with the rest of them hopefully between about 2480 and 2520. Same thing if you were trying to hit 2600 fps. Bottom line is if one of your test strings hits the sweet spot for accuracy, then load development is over, and stick with that load. The best you can hope for if you keep testing is maybe another 30-40 feet on your MPBR. Sounds kind of silly to muck around with your load for a marginal improvement like that. If you were shooting Naitonal Match or F-Class or something similar, it might be worth it. For hunting, it just isn't.

what he said.
bruce.

 

[nksmfamjp]

That MPBR is great advice. It says I should sight my 458 lott in 8.3” high at 100 yds to be minute of buffalo out to 440 yds.

Somehow i think I’ll keep with my current methods....my point is just that all advice needs listened to, but not all of it may be really helpful in all cases.

BTW, I never use MPBR. I just know where my gun shoots and aim as required.

 

[fourfive8]

Single loaded target ammo, most single shot hunting ammo and some lesser recoiling magazine or double rifle ammo may not need crimping if the neck tension is great enough. But for serious hunting ammo for heavy recoiling magazine rifles and double rifles crimping is nearly a must. Otherwise, in magazine rifles, the inner wall of the magazine box will slam into the bullets/cartridges upon recoil and seat the bullets deeper or in double rifles the recoil will "pull" the unshot bullet out of its case due to bullet inertia.... neither an acceptable condition!

Most bullet seating dies have a built in roll crimp shoulder. The problem with using the die for both seating and crimping is many times the pushed roll crimp can actually lessen neck tension by buckling the case neck/mouth in the process. That is why the Lee Factory Crimp die is such a superior tool for crimping. It uses a collet that presses about 1/16" of the mouth laterally inward and will not buckle the case and cannot reduce neck tension.

Here are some pics of the process.

 

[bruce moulds]

only crimp if you need to, and that does not include 375 h&h if your sizing die is ok.
with any crimp, you need all cases trimmed to same length, and a correctly adjusted roll crimp die is no problem.
bruce.

 

[bruce moulds]

with regards pbr zeroing, the example given re minute of buffalo is obviously a joke.
the whole point of a pbr zero is not to have to think prior to firing the max potential of the given trajectory.
judging range can be difficult at the best of times, but when hurried or under pressure, you need everything in your favour.
bruce.

 

[sestoppelman]

Manual? We don't need no stinking manual? Got half a book on this thread!

 

[Dr Ray]

Only thing I can suggest after others’ comments, is to thoroughly wash your hands and dry them before seating primers so as not to contaminate.

Do you touch your forehead after handling powder. Ensure you wash hands if you have touched the powder.

 

[bruce moulds]

doc,
what does powder do to you?
bruce.

 

[Daggaboy375]

I can help the OP, just three years late.
Myrtle Beach.

DB375

 

[fourfive8]

Necessity for crimping depends on but not limited to the following: seating depth, amount of neck tension, bullet shank profile, contact surface area of bullet shank to inside neck, relative hardness of the brass, type of bullet material, thickness of brass, carbon coating from firing or relative cleanliness of inside neck, type of contamination or lube on inside of case neck, amount of recoil, distance between bullet tips in magazine and inside/front of magazine (particularly at first shot), type of bullet tip, mass of bullet for double rifle or mass of complete cartridge for magazine rifle.

Satisfactory results of roll crimping with shoulder in seating die are completely dependent upon case mouth rim profile and OAL. Even slight variation is case length can greatly affect crimp quality. And when using the seating die shoulder method, the crimping process starts BEFORE the bullet is fully seated and can scrape copper/brass particles into the area of the crimp groove or leading edge of the case mouth. This effect is even worse when seating cast lead bullets. When using the crimping shoulder in the seating die, for larger caliber cases, especially those with thin or soft brass, the chances of case bulge and neck tension lessening are even greater.

Satisfactory results when using a collet type crimping die are almost completely independent of case mouth profile and small variations in case OAL. The bullet is completely seated a previous seating step so the crimping process is completely independent of bullet seating.

The only way to pre-determine if a crimp is required is to test fire then measure remaining cartridge OAL using a plug type gauge attached to a caliper. And for max recoil effect load and fire all but last in magazine. Then measure. This should be done over several reps with different reloadings to test more variables and to increase sample size. (Seems wiser and easier to just correctly crimp all hunting ammo in the first place) Then compare those measurements using same method to an unfired cartridge. Sometimes the shift of the bullet, either "set back" in magazine rifle or "pull" in double rifle, will be readily visible, sometimes not.

Lee dies?? Love em or hate em... The Lee collet type Factory Crimp Die is relatively inexpensive and IMO far superior to other methods like using the crimp shoulder in a seating die.

 

[Standard Velocity]

In addition to the methodology advised in prior comments:

When charging powder in cases keep all primed empty cases upside down in loading block.

Weigh charge, flip case, charge, insert bullet by hand.

Then seat all of the bullets.

It’s doubtful that you could fit a double charge into most rifle cartridge cases without lots of spillover but this method makes it real hard to get to that point.

This is the method I used when starting out loading 38/357. Those cases will hold a double charge.

Good luck!

 

[sestoppelman]

The thing about primers and touching them is overstated. I handle primers often as I prime on my press rather than the little hand jobs some prefer. If you have really sweaty or oily fingers or hands, sure, keep them dry, but otherwise primer contamination is not really a problem.
Its not rocket science. Seat primers at or just below flush, slightly below is preferred but bolt rifles are pretty forgiving in this regard.

 

[fourfive8]

Accurate cartridge over all length (COAL) measurement is important for both safety and consistency of reloads. No matter the reason for measuring COAL, the only consistent and accurate way if using bullets with malleable lead tips or certain types of swaged tips or inserts is to use a plug gauge and caliper. For certain flat point bullets with non malleable noses, obviously the flats on the caliper jaws can be used.

For recording the COAL using a plug gauge, I find it handy and better to use the term COAL index. COAL index measurements can then be recorded in the load log and later duplicated if needed or directly compared to other COAL index measurements with that bullet.

If you are comparing the bullet setback or pull due to recoil, precise measurements are absolutely necessary. In developing new loads, it is wise to be aware of COAL to be able to avoid pressure spikes caused by bullets contacting lands, inconsistency of pressures, future load duplication if desired... and of course to ensure the carts will fit into magazine and cycle properly.

Pics of process:
Recoil battered bullet tip, both carts with identical COAL- bullets seated to same depth
Measuring COAL index, using plug gauge and caliper no matter tip condition or type
Measuring COAL true length of cartridge/monolithic FP bullet with caliper flats

 

[fourfive8]

As to the OP's 308, much of the info on necessity for crimping because of recoil may not be necessary. But accurate and precise COAL measuring techniques certainly do. And correct crimping will certainly not hurt any hunting ammo. The OP may in the future get into larger, heavier recoiling calibers and since many of the general membership on the AFRICA hunting forum shoot or load for DG, never hurts to discuss correct crimping.

 

[perttime]

This thread is originally more than 3 years old....

When I was reloading 308, I never paid special attention to crimping - and never had any related problems. I used a wide range of bullets from very light ones (4.7 g / 73gr, I recall) to somewhat heavy (12 g / 185gr). My rifle would shoot any halfway decent ammunition very well. Wish I still had it.....

 

[Opposite Pole]

Accurate cartridge over all length (COAL) measurement is important for both safety and consistency of reloads. No matter the reason for measuring COAL, the only consistent and accurate way if using bullets with malleable lead tips or certain types of swaged tips or inserts is to use a plug gauge and caliper. For certain flat point bullets with non malleable noses, obviously the flats on the caliper jaws can be used.

For recording the COAL using a plug gauge, I find it handy and better to use the term COAL index. COAL index measurements can then be recorded in the load log and later duplicated if needed or directly compared to other COAL index measurements with that bullet.

If you are comparing the bullet setback or pull due to recoil, precise measurements are absolutely necessary. In developing new loads, it is wise to be aware of COAL to be able to avoid pressure spikes caused by bullets contacting lands, inconsistency of pressures, future load duplication if desired... and of course to ensure the carts will fit into magazine and cycle properly.

Pics of process:
Recoil battered bullet tip, both carts with identical COAL- bullets seated to same depth
Measuring COAL index, using plug gauge and caliper no matter tip condition or type
Measuring COAL true length of cartridge/monolithic FP bullet with caliper flats

View attachment 317705View attachment 317706View attachment 317707

Another way to measure COAL and other parameters is to use Innovative Technologies (of the belted magnum collet resizing die) digital headspace gauge.
(larrywillis.com)

The benefit is one doesn’t need to buy gauges for each of the calibers one is reloading for.

I realise how old the original post is but I suppose this can be handy for others anyway.

 

[nksmfamjp]

I can help the OP, just three years late.
Myrtle Beach.

DB375

Which explains why he didn’t answer my PM...

 

[Spooksar]

doc,
what does powder do to you?
bruce.

The Nitro Gylerin in some powders can cause bad headaches in some people

 

[fourfive8]

Another way to measure COAL and other parameters is to use Innovative Technologies (of the belted magnum collet resizing die) digital headspace gauge.
(larrywillis.com)
View attachment 317710

The benefit is one doesn’t need to buy gauges for each of the calibers one is reloading for.

I realise how old the original post is but I suppose this can be handy for others anyway.

Yes ^^
Larry Willis, who owns the company, provides some pretty good advice about reloading. On the home page, on the left margin good info under Reloading Questions and Reloading and Shooting Tech Tips.
http://www.larrywillis.com

 

[shootist~]

Just a few random thoughts, somewhat specific to the 308.

I agree with others that 150 grain bullets work very well for the 308W.
A professional loader at my club - geared more to to the PRS crowd - put me on Benchmark powder and Hornady 150 gr FMJ-BTs years ago for a practice round. It works great with 150 gr hunting bullets too, such as Nosler Ballistic Tips an others.

As you add gear, including dies, buy quality. Redding and RCBS are a couple that have always been worth the money (for me).

Don't scrimp when lubing brass - use a little extra. Too little and you risk seizing up your sized die. (Ask most any old reloader how we learned this.)

Down the road a little, get and use a primer pocket Uniforming tool. This aids both accuracy and reliability (helps eliminate high primers). Along the same lines, a good hand priming tool is great to have. The RCBS "Universal" Priming Tool is just outstanding.

If you don't already wear glasses, use eye protection and require anyone in the loading room to do the same. Getting a primer crossways and setting it off is rare, but possible.