New Production Winchester Model 70 in 375 H&H back in-stock

[Northern Shooter]

@Northern Shooter
Maybe the 375H&H should come with a warning.
This cartridge may lead you down the path of bigger guns and bigger dreams and ideas.
Bob

375 was my first taste, 458 my second and 416 my third.

Still trying to figure out what my fourth will be.

 

[matchu865]

Shot the rifle again today. Was going to do some group testing on 300gr partitions with H4350, and also do some initial pressure testing for H4350 and the 260gr Nosler E-tip. Got to the range and realized I forgot the partitions....well shucks. At least I remembered the E-tip loads.

5 fouling shots with Federal 270gr SP RN, about a 2.5" group
Shot the 260gr. H4350 loads starting at 75gr up to 80 gr. Above 77gr loads are highly compressed, which I don't really like, but I wasn't about to pull the bullets. Needless to say they all shot like crap - 5 to 6" groups. I think charge loads 75-77gr may group, but I only loaded one of each so there is no way to know... A little bit discouraging, but it tells me this is the wrong powder if you want 2700+ FPS. 77gr gave 2687 fps.

Shot 5 rounds of 300gr PPU RN SP into a 1" group to finish up the session. That made me feel better.


Next trip I'll test the Partitions, and also likely load up some e-tips with either Ramshot Big Game, or Staball 6.5. I'm also starting to suspect either my primers or my brass might be bad given that factory ammo shoots much better. My reloads for other calibers, 6.5 CM, and 30-06 I've been able to get <0.75" so I don't yet doubt my technique, although that is always a possibility.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Shot the rifle again today. Was going to do some group testing on 300gr partitions with H4350, and also do some initial pressure testing for H4350 and the 260gr Nosler E-tip. Got to the range and realized I forgot the partitions....well shucks. At least I remembered the E-tip loads.

5 fouling shots with Federal 270gr SP RN, about a 2.5" group
Shot the 260gr. H4350 loads starting at 75gr up to 80 gr. Above 77gr loads are highly compressed, which I don't really like, but I wasn't about to pull the bullets. Needless to say they all shot like crap - 5 to 6" groups. I think charge loads 75-77gr may group, but I only loaded one of each so there is no way to know... A little bit discouraging, but it tells me this is the wrong powder if you want 2700+ FPS. 77gr gave 2687 fps.

Shot 5 rounds of 300gr PPU RN SP into a 1" group to finish up the session. That made me feel better.


Next trip I'll test the Partitions, and also likely load up some e-tips with either Ramshot Big Game, or Staball 6.5. I'm also starting to suspect either my primers or my brass might be bad given that factory ammo shoots much better. My reloads for other calibers, 6.5 CM, and 30-06 I've been able to get <0.75" so I don't yet doubt my technique, although that is always a possibility.

@matchu865
Try Hodgdon CFE223. There's a post some one put up with think it was Ron Spomer getting 2,900 fps out if his 375H&H with a 270.
I could be wrong but the person that posted it might chime in.
Bob

 

[Forrest Halley]

@matchu865
Try Hodgdon CFE223. There's a post some one put up with think it was Ron Spomer getting 2,900 fps out if his 375H&H with a 270.
I could be wrong but the person that posted it might chime in.
Bob

I'm not sure Spomer can handle the .375. He's got a penchant for loads a bit light on the shoulder.

 

[matchu865]

After an unsuccessful ladder with 270gr Speer BTSP, and the 300gr partitions, exhibiting horrendous accuracy, the rifle is going back to Winchester to evaluate if there is anything wrong with it. 6/7 loads shooting horrendously, and 1 shooting marginally is not a good sign.

I'm suspecting the chamber dimensions are such that it only shoots round nose bullets with marginal accuracy. The 'evidence' I have to support this is that I was unable to find jam/touch to the rifling with any bullet I had. The fact it won't shoot spitzer bullets won't work for me as I'd like to be able to shoot something at 3-400yds if need be.

One interesting tidbit - Winchester/Browning support tells me their accuracy 'spec' for the 375 H&H Model 70 is 2" at 100yd. Not sure how many rounds, but with a small sample size of 3/5 and one loading, that is not encouraging. Hopefully others have had better luck.

 

[Lone Star Bluegrass]

I'm not sure Spomer can handle the .375. He's got a penchant for loads a bit light on the shoulder.

Could be. I heard some things about a .416 he had…

 

[sestoppelman]

After an unsuccessful ladder with 270gr Speer BTSP, and the 300gr partitions, exhibiting horrendous accuracy, the rifle is going back to Winchester to evaluate if there is anything wrong with it. 6/7 loads shooting horrendously, and 1 shooting marginally is not a good sign.

I'm suspecting the chamber dimensions are such that it only shoots round nose bullets with marginal accuracy. The 'evidence' I have to support this is that I was unable to find jam/touch to the rifling with any bullet I had. The fact it won't shoot spitzer bullets won't work for me as I'd like to be able to shoot something at 3-400yds if need be.

One interesting tidbit - Winchester/Browning support tells me their accuracy 'spec' for the 375 H&H Model 70 is 2" at 100yd. Not sure how many rounds, but with a small sample size of 3/5 and one loading, that is not encouraging. Hopefully others have had better luck.

I dont have a new Win in .375, but did pick up an Alaskan in .338 Mag a while back and it shoots fine, had many MOA groups with various loads. Extremely smooth action and trigger, recoil lug and tang both bedded.
As far as the .375 goes, I have still the only one I ever owned for more than a short time, an Interarms Whitworth Express.
Been shooting it for many years, since about 1984 in fact. I had the best luck with mine with IMR4350, IMR4831 and even some H4831, using 300 Gr Nosler Partitions and 300 gr Hornady solids.
My avatar picture is of that rifle with an Okavango buffalo, one shot at 140 paced yards.
My PH was impressed, not an easy task!

 

[RLL]

@matchu865
Try Hodgdon CFE223. There's a post some one put up with think it was Ron Spomer getting 2,900 fps out if his 375H&H with a 270.
I could be wrong but the person that posted it might chime in.
Bob

375 H&H load for the 270-gr is 79 grains CFE 223, CCI 250 primer, Win. brass. Av. MV 2,850 fps

 

[Bush Buck]

I've owned and shot several 375 H&Hs - probably my favorite cartridge. 6" groups indicate a problem for sure. 2" is usually easy to achieve. I'm happy with 1.5"

If you have taken off the stock ( and maybe if you haven't ) you may want to do it again and make sure everything goes back together properly with no binding. Then properly tighten your action screws while keeping the action to the rear of the stock.
Then I would try a faster powder like Varget or R15 and load up starting loads with a lighter bullet (250 to 270 to mitigate recoil).

When you resize your brass do it just enough that the bolt closes smoothly which will allow head-space on both the shoulder and belt.
I load 375 to standard length so it loads, feeds and ejects smoothly - with no regard to lands. This is usually around 3.59".

375s kick and the fore-end needs to be held and controlled during recoil - especially in a lighter rifle like the Alaskan. I also suggest alternating with a lighter recoiling rifle and calling each shot impact to make sure the 375 is not triggering a flinch - which it can easily do - even with experienced riflemen.

You may know all this stuff already, but If not, you might try some of it before you ship back to Winchester.

Good luck with your new rifle!

 

[colorado]

I'd just send it back.

 

[leslie hetrick]

two shots from the same CZ 550 in .375 H&H at 100 yards from a rest, both from a cold dirty barrel. 260 gr JSP at 2700 fps with N-160, my shot is the upper left and my ph,s shot is the lower right. i shot many animals with it in africa and it never failed me.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Where can I get one folks....am looking for a .375 Winchester model good second hand rifle

What country are you in?

 

[matchu865]

I just sent it back. Did pretty much everything tested above. Shot the following with the rifle:
300 gr PPU factory loads - shot the best maybe 2” or so.
270 Gr Federal RNSP factory loads - shot 2nd best but not great. Maybe 2” at min
300gr Partition load work up with Big Game, H4350. 6” shotgun groups
260gr Nosler E-tip with H4350 and Varget. Shotgun groups
270gr Speer BTSP with Varget. 3-6” groups.

I want to be able to use the rifle for Elk, and Alpine hunting SE Alaska so it needs to shoot a somewhat aerodynamic bullet consistently well enough to take game at 3-400yds if needed, even if in reality I mostly shoot everything <100yds. We’ll see what Winchester/Browning does, although the 2” @ 100yd spec they gave me doesn’t give me a ton of confidence.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

After an unsuccessful ladder with 270gr Speer BTSP, and the 300gr partitions, exhibiting horrendous accuracy, the rifle is going back to Winchester to evaluate if there is anything wrong with it. 6/7 loads shooting horrendously, and 1 shooting marginally is not a good sign.

I'm suspecting the chamber dimensions are such that it only shoots round nose bullets with marginal accuracy. The 'evidence' I have to support this is that I was unable to find jam/touch to the rifling with any bullet I had. The fact it won't shoot spitzer bullets won't work for me as I'd like to be able to shoot something at 3-400yds if need be.

One interesting tidbit - Winchester/Browning support tells me their accuracy 'spec' for the 375 H&H Model 70 is 2" at 100yd. Not sure how many rounds, but with a small sample size of 3/5 and one loading, that is not encouraging. Hopefully others have had better luck.

You mentioned the action screws loosened.
Did you check the wood between the magazine and trigger wells. Loose action screws can allow the barreled action to recoil and may result in a spit in wood. Accuracy goes down the drain. If I remember correctly you wrote the first few shots were ok. Then you found the screws loose. Also did you mention that your M-70 does not have cross bolts?

 

[matchu865]

You mentioned the action screws loosened.
Did you check the wood between the magazine and trigger wells. Loose action screws can allow the barreled action to recoil and may result in a spit in wood. Accuracy goes down the drain. If I remember correctly you wrote the first few shots were ok. Then you found the screws loose. Also did you mention that your M-70 does not have cross bolts?

It has cross bolts. Yes after the first few shots they loosened a bit. After retightening both, and lock tite on cross bolts I never had a subsequent issue.

 

[Daisy]

It has cross bolts. Yes after the first few shots they loosened a bit. After retightening both, and lock tite on cross bolts I never had a subsequent issue.

Did you glass bed the receiver?

 

[matchu865]

Did you glass bed the receiver?

No, it had Winchester's 'factory bedding' on the recoil lug and the rear tang. If the rifle shot well (e.g. <1.5" consistently) my plan was to have my gunsmith cut the barrel down to 21-22", then pillar and glass bed it. However I'm not going to take my chance paying the money for that work on a new rifle, as I'm sure that would void any warranty at all by the OEM.

 

[fourfive8]

So much for CNC machinery with parts assembled by robots.

I agree!

Late to thread, glancing through and noticed this. I’ve suspected this for quite some time. CNC robots are not smart and will continue to make same runout errors as long as real people don’t hold them to “account” or allow sloppy tolerance parameters of production. I have owned and shot all manner of Win 70s- from pre-war through the last of New Haven rifles. Curiosity “forced” me to purchase a post-New Haven rifle in 30-06 after M 70 production resumed. It seemed OK and at first, cursory glance and feel seemed about equal to the late New Haven rifles. But over the course of working up loads and getting the “feel” of this rifle I noticed two things: first was it would forever be only marginally accurate and second I could feel various battery functions in the mechanics were not correct. The most obvious was a noticeable “bump” or “hitch” in the bolt throw during the cocking and lift portion of the bolt operating cycle. It felt like there was a divit in the bolt raceway battery surface between the raceway and one or both bolt lugs. Not good for a brand new rifle machined by a CNC robot. Additionally, I do not like the “new” MOA Win 70 trigger on these post New Haven rifles. I passed the rifle along after 200 or so rounds.

I am convinced the best all around Win 70s are the late New Haven made rifles. I learned how to pillar bed and have done that to all my post 64 Win 70 hunting rifles. I have sold all my pre 64 M 70s having never messed with their original configuration. In good or better condition, IMO, they have far more value as collectibles and antiques than beater or users.

 

[leslie hetrick]

my lefthand rifles, two of them are winchester model 70,s i bought in 2005. a 7mm rem mag and a 300 win mag, both were checked out by fireing 40 round to see if every thing was ok. with factory ammo both were good for 1.5" or better at 100 yds from a bench and a good scope. i wish i had bought several more.

 

[Bush Buck]

I didn't want to write about my recent Winchester 70 experience until I had the rifle to the range a couple of times.

I bought an unfired Model 70 Alaskan 375 H&H sold by TOBY458. If I understand the serial number code correctly it was manufactured this year.
The rifle arrived in like new condition.
I cleaned the barrel as usual and mounted a 6x Leupold I had on hand for testing.
I ran 3 different types of ammo through the rifle and it feeds and ejects nicely with no concerns.

I started shooting with mild loads (which I like to do with used rifles) and I was able to sight in quickly at 50 and then 100 yards.
I then shot some PPU 300 grain ammo and had them quickly sighted to point of aim at 100.
Enough for the first outing.

I went back today to work on a deer rifle - but I shot one group with the Win 70 Alaskan using some 235 TSX loaded to about 2700 fps. This group was 1" on the nose.
These also feed and eject perfectly.

The rifle is on the lighter side and handles nicely. The weight feels similar to my Kimber Talkeetna.
The checkering is clean and gives excellent grip. The recoil pad is nice and it works.
Overall, I am impressed with the rifle.

Bush Buck