New Pig and Coyote Solution

[mark-hunter]

Wouldn't the most elegant solution be something like German pivot mounts, one set for a day scope and one for a dedicated thermal scope?

This is general description of what I use (except I dont have thermal but NV, which suits the purpose).
For me it is QD on picatinny rail, with Rusan QD rings.

My feeling is, that picatinny system for modern sighting solutions and electronics is most convenient, I prefer not to mix thermal, or NV with classic designs of swing mount, or claw mount.

 

[Daisy]

Man I’m glad you got that working for you. I tried clip ons and just never liked them as much as my dedicated thermals.

Agree on 5.56 for hogs. They die but run. I use 6.5 or 30/06 when I’m ridding the world of hogs.

 

[mark-hunter]

@Daisy
You speak pure wisdom on calibers! Pure wisdom!

 

[mdwest]

Red - A suppressor cover goes a long way to reduce visual heat from the can for rapid follow up engagements. Usually that first shot lights it up like a torch and it’s difficult to see the second target, no matter the thermal platform.

Especially true in my situation.. Im shooting "K" cans on both of my guns.. they don't get anywhere close to "Hollywood" quiet.. but they knock enough of the recoil off to get the guns back on target quickly (when they are running properly).. and bring the noise down to at least being reasonable when shooting from inside a blind, etc...

but they get hot quickly..

slipping a quality cover over them brings down the heat signature extremely well.. and also makes it a lot easier to handle the can after a range session, etc (not sitting around waiting for a long time for it to cool before I can remove it, put the rifle back into the case, etc..)..

 

[Daisy]

@Daisy
You speak pure wisdom on calibers! Pure wisdom!

Haha. Experience on that one. I’ve killed a ton of varmints. A ton. If it’s a few hogs my 5.56 does fine, I neck or ear shoot them. For a big sounder when chaos breaks out the 5.56 is lacking.

Lately I’ve been using subsonic some. It’s fun to try new things.

My coyote load this year will be a 62ge eld-vt running 3500 from a 22 creedmoor. Yote medicine.

 

[Daisy]

Especially true in my situation.. Im shooting "K" cans on both of my guns.. they don't get anywhere close to "Hollywood" quiet.. but they knock enough of the recoil off to get the guns back on target quickly (when they are running properly).. and bring the noise down to at least being reasonable when shooting from inside a blind, etc...

but they get hot quickly..

slipping a quality cover over them brings down the heat signature extremely well.. and also makes it a lot easier to handle the can after a range session, etc (not sitting around waiting for a long time for it to cool before I can remove it, put the rifle back into the case, etc..)..

I’ve switched to silicone wraps. I then use self healing silicone tape and coban/vet wrap around the ends. Best mirage decreasing thing I have found.

 

[TOBY458]

I looked at the Leica clip on thermal at DSC this year. Very impressive! It’s what I’ll be buying when I finally pull the trigger on a thermal unit.

 

[BRICKBURN]

I think the Pecan's will be much safer soon.

 

[Green Chile]

Interesting solution and topic. It is nice to see so many optical options and thankfully the evolution of pricing is dropping. I went a little different direction but with similar outcomes I think. I went with the Swarovski solution, which is a clip on thermal with various adapters for different scope objectives and I use it on Swaro scopes with lighted reticles (but will fit anything of that objective diameter). I have adapters for 24, 42 and 50mm objectives. I had only messed around with them in the backyard until I took it to Africa recently. We used it on a .416 to take a big bush pig in the total pitch black darkness. Worked like a charm. I bought mine through EO and there were big discounts at the time...like 50%.

 

[mdwest]

Interesting solution and topic. It is nice to see so many optical options and thankfully the evolution of pricing is dropping.

256 grade thermals are now pretty close to the same price point as some day/night vision optics and are super affordable.. I'd imagine in the next 12-18 months the 384 grade stuff will come down pretty sharply..

I went a much lower end, cheaper route than most of you guys.. Cabelas has been selling the AGM TS19-256 Rattler for $799 (most other places are still retailing them around $950)... between the Club Member Monday discounts (15% during the Christmas season) and the veterans discount (another 10%) I bought several of them for myself and for a few key friends for about $650 out the door with tax included..

Where Im doing 90% of my pig hunting a 150 yard shot is long.. most are going to be somewhere between 50-100 yards.. the 256 is more than enough clarity to properly identify a pig at that range, and I can easily pick up heat on something the size of a pig at 400+ (there's only one place on the property where I can see 400 yards.. down a stretch of powerlines.. but after about 250 yards you're off my property and onto the neighbors place)..

To be truthful I don't think I'll ever really need an upgrade.. what Ive got is plenty to get the job done where I hunt, and do the job really well...

but if the 384 units get inexpensive (as I am sure they will at some point) Im not sure I'll be able to resist..

thermals are addictively fun to shoot and play with..

 

[Sabre]

Interesting solution and topic. It is nice to see so many optical options and thankfully the evolution of pricing is dropping. I went a little different direction but with similar outcomes I think. I went with the Swarovski solution, which is a clip on thermal with various adapters for different scope objectives and I use it on Swaro scopes with lighted reticles (but will fit anything of that objective diameter). I have adapters for 24, 42 and 50mm objectives. I had only messed around with them in the backyard until I took it to Africa recently. We used it on a .416 to take a big bush pig in the total pitch black darkness. Worked like a charm. I bought mine through EO and there were big discounts at the time...like 50%.

View attachment 660232

I have avoided taking my thermal to Africa because of ITARS regulations and didn't want any hangups from it. Is this not a concern?

 

[Sabre]

did you have much of a challenge tuning the suppressor to the AR10?

Ive got 2x 308 AR10's rigged with thermals and suppressors that the wife and I hunt hogs with... Ive had a hell of a time getting the suppressors tuned though..

Ive got superlative arms adjustable gas blocks in both guns (supposedly among the best adjustable gas blocks money can buy)...

Either Im way over gassed and the guns rip up the rims on the cases.. or Im under gassed and the guns don't cycle reliably.. I haven't been able to find the "sweet spot" where Ive got a reliable gun that's not beating itself to death and tearing up brass...

Never had this problem on any other suppressed rifle (no issues with my 556 AR's for example)..

I chatted with a guy that works for a suppressor company recently that was helpful.. he gave me some advice on starting over with the gas blocks.. and if that doesn't work, the next step will be swapping out buffers (different weights)

If you haven't tried changing out the gas blocks yet, that is definitely where to start. There are gas blocks out with a nice range of easy adjustment between full gas and no gas. I would look for one with a decent "number" of settings if you are having troubles finding a sweet spot. Don't get one with just a few settings for amount of gas.

 

[Green Chile]

I have avoided taking my thermal to Africa because of ITARS regulations and didn't want any hangups from it. Is this not a concern?

ITARS is related to selling not using yourself. I got a 4457 to cover myself but it wasn't an issue.

 

[CBH Australia]

The 10, with the suppressor installed, is a very "dirty" rifle. It seems to cycle fine and there is no damage to the brass, but the brass emerges black with residue. I am assuming regular thorough cleaning will be required to keep it functioning.

Both 15's, one rifle and one "pistol" length, run perfectly suppressed.

Would the difference be more related to case capacity and powder charge differences in the AR10 running bigger cartridges than the AR15 rifles?
Is it powder volume and not so much mechanical function?

Could it be same for the OP not being able to tune the rifle to function with a suppressor.

 

[ActionBob]

Joe I have a very similar setup. Bought that thermal last year at SCI. It is currently being used on an an AR10 308 although I have not yet seen a hog on our property so only shot raccoons with it. The setup has a Swaro z6 2-12x50i but as you mentioned, I have not even bothered turning on the illuminated reticle. It also has a suppressor.

I actually aqured 4 different adaptors. We took it to Africa along with a suppressed Ruger 77/22 in 22 Hornet which was fantastic for night critters.

The only issue I've seen is that I like my scopes mounted low and have had clearance issues on one rifle because of that. And have to remove the rear sight to get it on some. Otherwise the thermal clip on move quite easily between various gun and scope combos as changing out the adapter is not an issue. Other than aquring them as you mentioned... and for what they are they are spendy.

 

[Inline6]

Would the difference be more related to case capacity and powder charge differences in the AR10 running bigger cartridges than the AR15 rifles?
Is it powder volume and not so much mechanical function?

Could it be same for the OP not being able to tune the rifle to function with a suppressor.

Alot depends on the type of suppressor being used. A traditional bafflestack will have more gas. I'm not sure if @Red Leg is using dedicated 223 suppressors or 30 cal on his 223 (if 30cal on a 223 that helps a lot with back pressure, meaning runs a little cleaner)

It is the nature of the beast, flow through is the best (not the cheapest). Even when the system is tuned (with a traditional bafflestack), it's still going to get gas back in the system. Nickel plated brass seems to handle this the best from my personal observation. It will not eliminate stuck ammo, it sure helps with it.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

Alot depends on the type of suppressor being used. A traditional bafflestack will have more gas. I'm not sure if @Red Leg is using dedicated 223 suppressors or 30 cal on his 223 (if 30cal on a 223 that helps a lot with back pressure, meaning runs a little cleaner)

It is the nature of the beast, flow through is the best (not the cheapest). Even when the system is tuned (with a traditional bafflestack), it's still going to get gas back in the system. Nickel plated brass seems to handle this the best from my personal observation. It will not eliminate stuck ammo, it sure helps with it.

I believe that is the big draw of piston systems. It keeps the crud somewhere else, and gas out of your face.
Most people say it’s about reliability, which I have not seen to be a problem.

 

[Inline6]

I believe that is the big draw of piston systems. It keeps the crud somewhere else, and gas out of your face.
Most people say it’s about reliability, which I have not seen to be a problem.

Even with a bolt gun, we still get gas back in the action. They carbon up a lot quicker, just my observation.

 

[Daisy]

Alot depends on the type of suppressor being used. A traditional bafflestack will have more gas. I'm not sure if @Red Leg is using dedicated 223 suppressors or 30 cal on his 223 (if 30cal on a 223 that helps a lot with back pressure, meaning runs a little cleaner)

It is the nature of the beast, flow through is the best (not the cheapest). Even when the system is tuned (with a traditional bafflestack), it's still going to get gas back in the system. Nickel plated brass seems to handle this the best from my personal observation. It will not eliminate stuck ammo, it sure helps with

So he is using a 308 ar10. So 30 cal can. Consider an upgraded adjustable block and really wrap that suppressor like I said. You can also put felt muffler wrap as base layer, then silicone tape. Followed by coban and some electrical tape.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

Even with a bolt gun, we still get gas back in the action. They carbon up a lot quicker, just my observation.

I’ll have to take your word for it, I’m not allowed to have a suppressor.