New Pig and Coyote Solution

[Red Leg]

For several years, I have been defending our pecans with a 5.56. Originally unsuppressed, the latest carried a suppressor. Both used a dedicated best quality ATN thermal sight and worked. Though the 5.56 was fine for an undisturbed initial shot, it was not the best for a second when a sounder exploded or the second when one of a pair of coyotes took off. I decided to move to a 150 gr bullet from a .308 and to upgrade to a thermal that is the most amazing thing that I have ever mounted on firearm of any type.

The rifle is a Ruger AR in .308. It is accurate and has a remarkable trigger for a current production Ruger. I mounted a Leica 2.5x10 ERI on it for general purpose daylight use. I then purchased a Leica Calonox thermal and a Rusan adapter to fit the ERI scope. The combined unit is incredible. One sights the rifle in normally without the thermal. The adapter is threaded onto the Calonox and then slid onto the scope objective. The resulting thermal image is incredibly clear, and one has the full magnification range of the variable scope. Unlit crosshairs are perfectly visible not even necessitating the illuminated reticle. It is far superior and far more practical than the ATN.

I have no idea why this system has not really caught on here in the States. With it one can turn a daylight rifle into a superb thermal equipped pig or varmint rifle in seconds.

 

[Lone Star Bluegrass]

The Calonox is a great piece of kit, I was at Gordy & Sons the first week they were stocked and have been a fan ever since. I think a lot of folks put their hands on the bottom shelf products and when they’re inevitably unimpressed or let down by them they just abandon thermal altogether.

 

[AimSmall]

...and 308 hits harder, for sure

 

[wesheltonj]

Which one Calonox did you get. I’ve been thinking about the Calonox Sight.

 

[Red Leg]

I have the first model, which, assuming you can find one, are going at a discount. The critical path are the adapters which are even more difficult to find.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

the ruger SFAR does look interesting for sure. I believe POF has one similar. My thermal is on a 223 and sometimes wish it were more.

 

[Sabre]

For several years, I have been defending our pecans with a 5.56. Originally unsuppressed, the latest carried a suppressor. Both used a dedicated best quality ATN thermal sight and worked. Though the 5.56 was fine for an undisturbed initial shot, it was not the best for a second when a sounder exploded or the second when one of a pair of coyotes took off. I decided to move to a 150 gr bullet from a .308 and to upgrade to a thermal that is the most amazing thing that I have ever mounted on firearm of any type.

The rifle is a Ruger AR in .308. It is accurate and has a remarkable trigger for a current production Ruger. I mounted a Leica 2.5x10 ERI on it for general purpose daylight use. I then purchased a Leica Calonox thermal and a Rusan adapter to fit the ERI scope. The combined unit is incredible. One sights the rifle in normally without the thermal. The adapter is threaded onto the Calonox and then slid onto the scope objective. The resulting thermal image is incredibly clear, and one has the full magnification range of the variable scope. Unlit crosshairs are perfectly visible not even necessitating the illuminated reticle. It is far superior and far more practical than the ATN.

I have no idea why this system has not really caught on here in the States. With it one can turn a daylight rifle into a superb thermal equipped pig or varmint rifle in seconds.
View attachment 659979

How easy is the thermal to remove and install to the scope? Can the adapter stay on the scope and use the scope as a normal daylight scope? I guess at the heart of my questions is wondering if the thermal is a quick detach type setup.

Would you feel comfortable giving a cost breakdown of your optic setup with adapters, thermal, and scope?

 

[Inline6]

I'm assuming you stepped up from a 384 to a 640. If so a big difference in picture quality. Have looked through a few of these, that unit should serve you well. The people I know that have them really enjoy them.

That is a nice setup you have, if you ever feel like you need something a little faster due to unknown distance. Check out a gasser in 6CM or 22CM. Little less recoil to contend with and still packs a nice punch. If that is to new for your liking (I know the CM line is frowned upon on this site) you could also go 243 or 260. Just food thought.

100% agree with your observations, 223 even with 62gr tsx does not slow the bigger ones down as fast as I would like. Most of my shots are inside of 12 yards. Have moved to 300BO. That works better, it is not going to win the distance race. I'm shooting 115 @ 2350fps. (Underwood Ammo).

As far as your question why that system has not taken off. You have a lot of options, some are set up differently. It appears yours is rechargeable, most serious hunters want to be able to change their battles out on the fly. They hunt all night long in cold weather. Alot of guys that are serious have dedicated scopes with built in range finders. We have come a long ways in the NV world. (That’s just a few, I'm sure your question was more rhetorical).

 

[mark-hunter]

and a Rusan adapter to fit the

Glad to hear a Croatian product, finds itself accepted and distributed on American market.
I have several of their products, and they work well.
A friend of mine uses similar if not the same adapter for his clip on thermal on 300 win mag + Swaro scope, for years.
Basically for same purpose, night boar hunting.

 

[WAB]

Great setup! I found the same thing with the [emoji6].[emoji6][emoji6] and moved to a [emoji6].[emoji6] Grendel. I’m intrigued by that leica system!

 

[Red Leg]

How easy is the thermal to remove and install to the scope? Can the adapter stay on the scope and use the scope as a normal daylight scope? I guess at the heart of my questions is wondering if the thermal is a quick detach type setup.

Would you feel comfortable giving a cost breakdown of your optic setup with adapters, thermal, and scope?

The thermal is designed to instantly turn any rifle with a telescopic sight into a night hunting firearm. The adapter screws securely to the base of the thermal unit. The other end of the adapter slides over the objective of the scope and is tightened by simply throwing a lever on the adapter. The adapter overlaps the objective by about an inch and a half and thus is very secure. Each adapter fits a specific family of scopes with the same objective diameter. I have five or six rifles or barrels (R8) utilizing the Leica 2..5x10 ERI that could be turned into a night hunting option instantly by simply sliding the adapter on the scope. No resighting of the rifle is required and magnification is controlled normally by the scope rather than the thermal.

A wide range of different size adapters are produced by Rusan to fit most current scopes and those of recent manufacture like the ERI. https://www.fusionthermal.com/product/rusan-adapter-clip-on/

 

[Red Leg]

I'm assuming you stepped up from a 384 to a 640. If so a big difference in picture quality. Have looked through a few of these, that unit should serve you well. The people I know that have them really enjoy them.

That is a nice setup you have, if you ever feel like you need something a little faster due to unknown distance. Check out a gasser in 6CM or 22CM. Little less recoil to contend with and still packs a nice punch. If that is to new for your liking (I know the CM line is frowned upon on this site) you could also go 243 or 260. Just food thought.

100% agree with your observations, 223 even with 62gr tsx does not slow the bigger ones down as fast as I would like. Most of my shots are inside of 12 yards. Have moved to 300BO. That works better, it is not going to win the distance race. I'm shooting 115 @ 2350fps. (Underwood Ammo).

As far as your question why that system has not taken off. You have a lot of options, some are set up differently. It appears yours is rechargeable, most serious hunters want to be able to change their battles out on the fly. They hunt all night long in cold weather. Alot of guys that are serious have dedicated scopes with built in range finders. We have come a long ways in the NV world. (That’s just a few, I'm sure your question was more rhetorical).

The Leica thermal has a six-hour battery life before recharge is required, That is not an issue for me, because I won't be sitting anywhere for longer than six hours. However, numerous charging packs are offered by different manufacturers that can be fitted to the rifle providing much longer usage of the thermal. I am unaware of any of the better quality thermal options that do not use rechargeable batteries. Heck, that is true of most attachable flashlights for that matter these days.

 

[mdwest]

did you have much of a challenge tuning the suppressor to the AR10?

Ive got 2x 308 AR10's rigged with thermals and suppressors that the wife and I hunt hogs with... Ive had a hell of a time getting the suppressors tuned though..

Ive got superlative arms adjustable gas blocks in both guns (supposedly among the best adjustable gas blocks money can buy)...

Either Im way over gassed and the guns rip up the rims on the cases.. or Im under gassed and the guns don't cycle reliably.. I haven't been able to find the "sweet spot" where Ive got a reliable gun that's not beating itself to death and tearing up brass...

Never had this problem on any other suppressed rifle (no issues with my 556 AR's for example)..

I chatted with a guy that works for a suppressor company recently that was helpful.. he gave me some advice on starting over with the gas blocks.. and if that doesn't work, the next step will be swapping out buffers (different weights)

 

[Red Leg]

did you have much of a challenge tuning the suppressor to the AR10?

Ive got 2x 308 AR10's rigged with thermals and suppressors that the wife and I hunt hogs with... Ive had a hell of a time getting the suppressors tuned though..

Ive got superlative arms adjustable gas blocks in both guns (supposedly among the best adjustable gas blocks money can buy)...

Either Im way over gassed and the guns rip up the rims on the cases.. or Im under gassed and the guns don't cycle reliably.. I haven't been able to find the "sweet spot" where Ive got a reliable gun that's not beating itself to death and tearing up brass...

Never had this problem on any other suppressed rifle (no issues with my 556 AR's for example)..

I chatted with a guy that works for a suppressor company recently that was helpful.. he gave me some advice on starting over with the gas blocks.. and if that doesn't work, the next step will be swapping out buffers (different weights)

The 10, with the suppressor installed, is a very "dirty" rifle. It seems to cycle fine and there is no damage to the brass, but the brass emerges black with residue. I am assuming regular thorough cleaning will be required to keep it functioning.

Both 15's, one rifle and one "pistol" length, run perfectly suppressed.

 

[Troubleshooter]

I have the first model, which, assuming you can find one, are going at a discount. The critical path are the adapters which are even more difficult to find.

Perhaps difficult to locate a stand-alone adapter, but I'm seeing the thermal/adapter/scope offered as a combo. This screenshot from the Leica website lists it as "on back-order" but if you look around online, there are some retailers who have them in-stock. At least they do, at this moment in time.

 

[RLL]

did you have much of a challenge tuning the suppressor to the AR10?

Ive got 2x 308 AR10's rigged with thermals and suppressors that the wife and I hunt hogs with... Ive had a hell of a time getting the suppressors tuned though..

Ive got superlative arms adjustable gas blocks in both guns (supposedly among the best adjustable gas blocks money can buy)...

Either Im way over gassed and the guns rip up the rims on the cases.. or Im under gassed and the guns don't cycle reliably.. I haven't been able to find the "sweet spot" where Ive got a reliable gun that's not beating itself to death and tearing up brass...

Never had this problem on any other suppressed rifle (no issues with my 556 AR's for example)..

I chatted with a guy that works for a suppressor company recently that was helpful.. he gave me some advice on starting over with the gas blocks.. and if that doesn't work, the next step will be swapping out buffers (different weights)

Adjustable gas blocks should mostly solve your problem. But you also need to upgrade and adjust the weight of the buffer, heavier usually. Or you could go to a JP suppressed captured spring setup, my personal favorite.

Red - A suppressor cover goes a long way to reduce visual heat from the can for rapid follow up engagements. Usually that first shot lights it up like a torch and it’s difficult to see the second target, no matter the thermal platform.

 

[Red Leg]

Perhaps difficult to locate a stand-alone adapter, but I'm seeing the thermal/adapter/scope offered as a combo. This screenshot from the Leica website lists it as "on back-order" but if you look around online, there are some retailers who have them in-stock. At least they do, at this moment in time.

View attachment 660137

Also solves the problem of finding the correct adapter. Because I use a lot of Leica scopes, finding the adapter was the right way for me to go.

 

[VertigoBE]

Good looking setup @Red Leg

Here in Europe these front mounted thermal optics are quite popular, as @mark-hunter can attest to.
I have however always had doubts about how this mounts on a scope, the slightest mis-alignment, or even a bit of dirt when clipping the thermal on the scope, should mean a change in POI. A small bump against the forward end of the thermal accomplishing the same thing. This is what I mean:

Has this been solved in your opinion? Or it is not an issue?

Wouldn't the most elegant solution be something like German pivot mounts, one set for a day scope and one for a dedicated thermal scope?

Cheers!

V.

 

[SaintPanzer]

I have the similar Swarovski setup. As far as the question regarding "misalignment" goes, the scope slides on to the scope for about an inch and a half, you're not going to skew the thermal, as depicted.

 

[Red Leg]

Good looking setup @Red Leg

Here in Europe these front mounted thermal optics are quite popular, as @mark-hunter can attest to.
I have however always had doubts about how this mounts on a scope, the slightest mis-alignment, or even a bit of dirt when clipping the thermal on the scope, should mean a change in POI. A small bump against the forward end of the thermal accomplishing the same thing. This is what I mean:

View attachment 660139
Has this been solved in your opinion? Or it is not an issue?

Wouldn't the most elegant solution be something like German pivot mounts, one set for a day scope and one for a dedicated thermal scope?

Cheers!

V.

In a word no. The extension seems to be a lot, but unless the scope were to actually bend (fairly unlikely) there should be zero effect on POI. There is absolutely no movement possible between with the Rusan/Leica unit and the scope due to the extensive overlap. And remember, the thermal is only an illuminator. The crosshairs and sight picture are within the scope.

The whole purpose of the sight is to get away from the dedicated scope requirement.