New gun shoots waaaay high

[Lan856]

I acqured a new-to-me Citori XS Skeet. The gun has the tapered ramp rib and a parallel comb. The DAC is 1.75 inches with 14.75 LOP. The first time I shot it was a round of skeet. I shot a so-so 22 with no crushing breaks. The next time I shot it was at Sporting Clays and I broke maybe 50% which is far below what I usually shoot. Today, I shot another 100 targets of sporting and the first 50 were absolutely abysmal. My shooting partner commented, "you're shooting over everything". The next 50, whenever presented with a high flying target such as a springing teal I shot with a lot of daylight between the barrel and target and crushed the targets. On flatter targets that required a significant lateral lead as well as being under the target, I struggled.
At the end of the round, we went to the pattern board and set up at 30 yards. Using the tightest choke I had (Imp Mod), the pattern was nearly all above the aiming point. Conservatively, the pattern was 90% high.
To bring the pattern down, I either need to raise the rib or lower the comb. Well, lowering the comb is a non-starter, so, I will need to raise the rib . The question is; how much. Is there any mathematical way to calculate it?

 

[1r4rc]

You might try ProRibUSA.com (in CO). They do custom ribs.

 

[Ross Reamy]

Personally, I would cut my losses and try another gun. I had the same problem with a DT10 and Beretta "adjusted the choke seats", evidently they were off from the factory, but a 1,000 or so rounds later the bottom barrel ruptured, and they blamed my ammo and/or loose chokes (factory ammo and my chokes were tight & not damaged).

But as far as calculating POI adjustments, I've always understood 1/16" of adjustment makes 1" of POI difference at 16 yards.

I'd start with a gun that's closer to the desired 60/40 to begin with.

 

[leslie hetrick]

a higher bead will lower the poi, i have used morgen adjustable butt pads.

 

[BeeMaa]

With shotguns there is no easy answer. If you are looking for the best results, please read on.

Gun fit, sight picture and POI vary from person to person.

Gun fit can change for a person depending on the discipline they are shooting, change in body weight, clothing worn and even level of experience among other factors.

Sight picture is a matter of preference. Some people like see a lot of rib, some just the bead and everyone else in-between. How your head mounts on the stock determines this so it relates directly to gun fit. This also has to do with your level of experience and how you may change over the years.

POI can vary for each discipline as well. Most bird hunters want 60 above/40 below but this can vary as well. What about skeet, trap, or sporting clays. And the way one holds a shotgun can have an impact on the POI. Once again, gun fit plays a role.

The reasons above will explain why many of us have several shotguns for different purposes. Pressing one shotgun to fill ALL of the roles doesn't provide the best results.

Starting with a proper fitting shotgun is a HUGE advantage. Combine that with the sight picture you want and some test firing to sort out POI...you will have a very enjoyable experience with that shotgun. I also understand that not all of us can afford this level of treatment, but I would encourage everyone to at least go and get a gunfitting from a professional to learn what you need, what you like and what you want to do with it. This will give you the knowledge to know what to look for in an "off the shelf" shotgun. The education gained will get you pointed in the right direction. Most often, these people have no vested interest in selling you a shotgun, just making sure what you do get fits properly.

If it were me, I'd be starting over. I've been down the road you are on, it doesn't get better.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Lengthening LOP will usually bring the pattern down. You appear to already have a long LOP but try adding a slip-on recoil pad and see if that makes a difference. I generally use one on my A5 when shooting birds, clays, and skeet. I want my pattern 50-50 so barrel needs to be in front of crossers and almost cover rising birds. In cold weather when I'm layered up, I remove the slip-on. If you decide to try it, do NOT use Limbsaver slip-on. They are too soft and squirrely. Don't stay put on the stock. They wander sideways which will really screw things up.

 

[wyosteve]

This might get a chuckle, but I have an 1187 Remington that I use for waterfowl. Because steel shot doesn't carry as well as lead, it typically would be low at 40 yds. So- to remedy the problem I put the barrel into the receiver hitch on my truck and gave it some upward pressure! Result, the barrel now shoots dead on at 40 yards with steel shot, but does have a little hump in the rib! I know that's not feasible on a Citori though!! Good luck.

 

[KEC]

I suppose you could have a lower comb made possibly padded. We have a local stock maker who made one for my son's Kolar when he was competing in college. His name is Mark Deprez in Conesus NY, his work is outstanding and might be worth a call to get his ideas.

 

[steve white]

There are different theories/preferences on how to "see the bird" with a shotgun. At one time, an Italian method was to "float" the bird fairly high over the rib. Those guns were made to shoot high to compensate for a high float. I have a Beretta auto (400?) a beautiful gun that just shoots high FOR ME. It being a single barrel, it could be bent, but yours as an O/U cannot. You could change the pitch at the toe and see if it helps, or as mentioned get an adjustable butt pad like the Morgan and perhaps lower the comb to bring the eye down. I may not be much help, because to me, all off the shelf new shotguns look high.

One thing that I have seen lower POI on drillings, which are stiffly made (as is an O/U?) is to lengthen the chamber forcing cones. The speed out of the barrel changes the muzzle rise equation, I guess. But it always adjusted the POI DOWN by about 6". I don't suppose anyone would criticize the practice, after all, skeet shooters need the recoil reduction and have often been known to have it done. I do it myself with cutting dies from Brownells. It is simple and straightforward. I DON'T know if it will work on O/U

 

[steve white]

Reconsideration: I would not CUT the comb lower unless I KNEW I was going to keep the gun. Fix it with temporary "un-doable" methods to see it they are going to work without lessening resale value.

 

[Rando8586]

Large front bead !

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Anyone who looks at the bead is liable (guaranteed?) to miss the flying target. Many coaches remove beads altogether for beginners. I bought a used Citori a couple years ago and the first thing I did was remove its hi-viz glowing bead.

 

[leslie hetrick]

i close one eye and look at the front bead, my best sporting clays is 45-50 and my best at singles trap is 97-100. last sunday a 40-50 at sporting clays with my rem1187 with a skeet choke and singles trap a 23-25 with my browning bt-100 with a im choke, i,ll be 82 in a few months. not a pro by any means, i just enjoy shooting. try them all and use what works for you.

 

[Flipper Dude]

Do shotguns have a bead on them? Never noticed one. See the bird, only the bird, and nothing but the bird. Has always worked for me. What else happens while that is going on, I haven’t the slightest idea.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Do shotguns have a bead on them? Never noticed one. See the bird, only the bird, and nothing but the bird. Has always worked for me. What else happens while that is going on, I haven’t the slightest idea.

Exactly. Any coach will say the same thing. Watch the target. Do not aim the shotgun. I can tell when a novice is aiming the shotgun: he's swinging on the target, stops, then starts, then stops and fires. And he misses. DON'T LOOK AT THE GUN.

For trap I tell the beginner to shoulder the gun properly, get it lined up on the appropriate zone relative to the house, then take his eyes off the gun and focus on the center of house where target will leave. Watch for the target and DON'T TAKE YOUR EYES OFF IT. Bead and rib are only useful for getting gun oriented BEFORE the target is pulled. After it's out of the house the shooter shouldn't notice the barrel at all.

For skeet I try to get beginners to shoot low gun simply because there's not enough time to aim the shotgun (i.e. look at it). If the gun fits them, I usually see a marked improvement in scores. Eventually, when pointing the shotgun becomes instinctive, they can go back to shooting high gun, but be aware of aiming relapse if they start missing targets suddenly.