New Gun Day, Heym 88b 450/400

[Franco]

Chris Sells convinced me to get a 450/400 back in 2018 and my first reaction was - not big enough.

Well, 3 elephants, a handful of cape buffalo, rhino, giraffe, zebra, water buffalo, banteng, camels, donkeys, a couple sharks, and most recently - a croc, and OK - it's big enough.

I hope you enjoy yours as much as I have come to enjoy mine.

My 500NE double has arrived and I will pick it up later this week; I hope it is as pleasant to shoot as the 450/400

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

I suggest going the other way. Get a .500 NE for DG and put a scope on your .450-400 for longer range shots on PG etc.. That is the reasoning for me getting the Rigby Shikari with the .500 and .450-400 barrels. Rigby already has my Swarovski 6i 1.7-10X scope in the house to regulate the .450-400 barrel with it on the barrel.

Than is going to be a great set up Andy. Do you have an idea yet on the weight of your Shikari with the 450/400 barrels?

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Chris Sells convinced me to get a 450/400 back in 2018 and my first reaction was - not big enough.

Well, 3 elephants, a handful of cape buffalo, rhino, giraffe, zebra, water buffalo, banteng, camels, donkeys, a couple sharks, and most recently - a croc, and OK - it's big enough.

I hope you enjoy yours as much as I have come to enjoy mine.

My 500NE double has arrived and I will pick it up later this week; I hope it is as pleasant to shoot as the 450/400

Wow Franco! Sharks - do tell. please don't forget to post photos of the new 500. And a few more of your 450/400 too, it now has legend status!

 

[Franco]

Wow Franco! Sharks - do tell. please don't forget to post photos of the new 500. And a few more of your 450/400 too, it now has legend status!

We were on a cull hunt in Australia - camels, donkeys, water buffalo, banteng, etc.

I decided to take a day off and go fishing - beautiful spot on a the edge of a reef, clear water, lots of fish.

Every time we reeled in, a damn shark would swim by and take our fish. So, after the 3rd shark attack, I stopped reeling in the next fish I caught, handed the pole to another fisherman and said, "Hold my pole - I'll be right back". I went to the truck, grabbed my double, walked out to the edge of the reef and said, "OK - reel it in".

Solids work best.


We haven't set a day to pick up the 500 yet, thinking Wednesday or Thursday.

I will post pictures as soon as I can.

 

[rookhawk]

When I decided to get a Heym double I set my heart on a 375 Flanged in their light frame - lighter, easier to shoot and I was familiar with 375FL. I still like 375FL very much. In fact I placed the order snd but for a card glitch it would have been done.
Then a whole lot of folks on AH waded in in favour of the 450/400, the reasoning being that it was above the legal energy threshold (the 375FL is just below), more versatile, more elephant capable, etc. I will not be hunting elephant, so to be honest the two are very close, but what swung it was the 450/400 being buffalo legal. the downside is that you now progress to the heavier Africa frame. Although you can get a 450/400 in the light frame I think that the recoil would be too harsh.
I love my 89b 450/400, but given the chance of a retirement gift I wonder if a 375 FL Light Frame scoped Heym mightn't creep into the gun safe.

If it were me, I'd be sending that 450/400 back to Heym for a second set of barrels in 375 Flanged. I don't think you're getting anything special by getting the light frame over what you have. But a second barrel set for the gun you already love? That sounds like a great option so you can use it for smaller plains game with less meat damage.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

If it were me, I'd be sending that 450/400 back to Heym for a second set of barrels in 375 Flanged. I don't think you're getting anything special by getting the light frame over what you have. But a second barrel set for the gun you already love? That sounds like a great option so you can use it for smaller plains game with less meat damage.

That sounds very sensible Rook, but I think it may make sense to go down a size, either 9.3x74 or something even less with a flanged case, say 303 British? The second set would of course have scope mounts.
Do you think that the rifle would need to go back to Heym, or are they made accurately enough?

 

[rookhawk]

That sounds very sensible Rook, but I think it may make sense to go down a size, either 9.3x74 or something even less with a flanged case, say 303 British? The second set would of course have scope mounts.
Do you think that the rifle would need to go back to Heym, or are they made accurately enough?

I've looked into this task @Kevin Peacocke . They do have to go back to Heym to fabricate another barrel, plus forend, plus timing their ejectors. When I enquired a few years ago it was $8500.

I've always wanted 20 gauge barrels for my heym so I could use it for occasional practice and bird hunting on safari, but the price held me back from getting the job done.

Your idea of a 303 Brit is a good one too. Vertigo BE has a stunning Heym 375HH with a second set of 7x65r barrels, that too is a wonderful combination.

Personally, I have a second set of heym barrels in 375HH which is a wonderful cartridge, but I just can't stand the concept of a rimless cartridge in a double rifle considering 375 Flanged and 450-400 exist for this very task.

 

[Franco]

One of the guys on the cull hunt in Australia had a "lighter" 450/400 which was fitted with a scope. The combined weight of the rifle plus scope was about the same as my "heavier" open sight version, but the distribution was not the same. Shooting them in a side-by-side comparison, they did not feel the same nor did they handle recoil they same. We both preferred mine.

I sent a note to Chris this morning asking if he had a set of 20 gauge barrels just laying around, I haven't heard back yet. It will be interesting to see what the wait time is for those.

 

[AZDAVE]

@Kevin Peacocke Good morning. I agree with @rookhawk on the second set of barrels for the double you already have and fits you.

@Franco The 500's recoil will be a bit more sporty than the 450/400. The 450/400 punches above its weight class with recoil about the same as a 375 of felt recoil to me

 

[rookhawk]

@Kevin Peacocke Good morning. I agree with @rookhawk on the second set of barrels for the double you already have and fits you.

@Franco The 500's recoil will be a bit more sporty than the 450/400. The 450/400 punches above its weight class with recoil about the same as a 375 of felt recoil to me

I've mentioned this a few times on this forum regarding stout recoil. For my 470NE Heym, I was able to reduce the felt recoil from 106lbs down to about 58-60lbs by changing powders. IMR3031 and RL15 will achieve regulating velocities at the low end of the spectrum whereas IMR4831 is the common factory powder on the top end of the "ouch" spectrum.

For perspective, my 470NE was pushing a similar recoil to a 458WM with a standard load.

For 450-400, the right powder will create the same recoil as a 375HH.

 

[V.Veritas]

What would be the right powder for this to happen?
Tks.

"For 450-400, the right powder will create the same recoil as a 375HH."

 

[Hornedfrogbbq]

I've mentioned this a few times on this forum regarding stout recoil. For my 470NE Heym, I was able to reduce the felt recoil from 106lbs down to about 58-60lbs by changing powders. IMR3031 and RL15 will achieve regulating velocities at the low end of the spectrum whereas IMR4831 is the common factory powder on the top end of the "ouch" spectrum.

For perspective, my 470NE was pushing a similar recoil to a 458WM with a standard load.

For 450-400, the right powder will create the same recoil as a 375HH.

If you had a full frame, heavier heym 88 or 89 in .470ne, what extra shotgun barrels would fit on it?

 

[Rare Breed]

What would be the right powder for this to happen?
Tks.

"For 450-400, the right powder will create the same recoil as a 375HH."

Like @rookhawk, I would use IMR3031 as I do the exact same thing he does to keep recoil down. You will have to use a filler which is no big deal at all. I got my Natchez Reloading magazine today and it is readily available. For people like us that reload I just don’t understand why people would get over 100 pounds of felt recoil when they can reduce by half by the right powder. Certainly understand if that is all they have but IMR3031 is readily available while the RL15.5 that I now use is not. Just remember you want to use the powder that needs the fewest grains to achieve a desired FPS within safe PSI. That’s it

 

[Wildwillalaska]

One of the guys on the cull hunt in Australia had a "lighter" 450/400 which was fitted with a scope. The combined weight of the rifle plus scope was about the same as my "heavier" open sight version, but the distribution was not the same. Shooting them in a side-by-side comparison, they did not feel the same nor did they handle recoil they same. We both preferred mine.

I sent a note to Chris this morning asking if he had a set of 20 gauge barrels just laying around, I haven't heard back yet. It will be interesting to see what the wait time is for those.

As for shotgun barrels, not sure he just has an extra set, but there was a set there earlier in July.

When I purchased the pre-owned 470 few weeks back from Chris, he had another 88b also in 470 with a second set of barrels in 20ga that he was going to sell for a client. The price he mentioned seemed very reasonable at the time, BUT when he unpacked the gun and had it in hand, it had some freckling on the titanium nitride finish, few places along the frame and although I didn't see it, more so on the shotgun fore end. It would be easy to clean up and refinish, but never match the rest of the gun without doing it all, and something to be right, would need to go back to Germany which would take additional expense/time for import/export. It was a shame, since it had nice wood and was a rifle a couple years newer than the one I selected--so it had the flat side frame and radiused bottom corners.

I really like the look of the beefy frame shoulders, but also like the rounded bottom corners more.

Chris said he might take the shotgun barrel forearm with him to Germany when he left to have those pieces which had the most significant finish issues. He is back in the states now as I spoke with him Friday.

 

[Franco]

As for shotgun barrels, not sure he just has an extra set, but there was a set there earlier in July.

When I purchased the pre-owned 470 few weeks back from Chris, he had another 88b also in 470 with a second set of barrels in 20ga that he was going to sell for a client. The price he mentioned seemed very reasonable at the time, BUT when he unpacked the gun and had it in hand, it had some freckling on the titanium nitride finish, few places along the frame and although I didn't see it, more so on the shotgun fore end. It would be easy to clean up and refinish, but never match the rest of the gun without doing it all, and something to be right, would need to go back to Germany which would take additional expense/time for import/export. It was a shame, since it had nice wood and was a rifle a couple years newer than the one I selected--so it had the flat side frame and radiused bottom corners.

I really like the look of the beefy frame shoulders, but also like the rounded bottom corners more.

Chris said he might take the shotgun barrel forearm with him to Germany when he left to have those pieces which had the most significant finish issues. He is back in the states now as I spoke with him Friday.

I will see him Thursday and find out.

 

[Troubleshooter]

Actually your last target not bad at all. minute of buffalo

Agreed on the combined group size but I would suggest that you determine which are from the Right vs. Left barrel. Knowing whether the shots are converging or crossing with your current load will help immensely when you start on load development.

 

[Wildwillalaska]

I did pay attention on the shots. All are pairs, and checked with field glasses after each shot. Left barrel on left side and right on the right, except one pair I sort of stacked vertically on the left side.

 

[Troubleshooter]

Sounds like you're on it then. I commented merely because the target wasn't marked to indicate barrel. I usually mark mine with "R1, L1, R2, L2" etc. Makes it easier when reviewing the targets later as part of load development and comparison.