My Take on Dangerous Game Scopes

[Toast]

I agree, to each their own and definitely try before you buy. I'm a fan of 1x scopes with both eyes open, while using AR's. I am a fan of open sights for big game.

 

[Esoteric Junkie]

Hello Philip,
Thank you for posting the video. Nice trophy room by the way!
If the offer stands, I would like to take you up on your offer to come shoot and use some of the scopes shown and mentioned in your video. I would be happy to bring a few examples along with me for you to examine and use. In my travel kit, I can offer up any example of the current Zeiss product lineup (USA) you wish to examine and use. My recommendation for a "dangerous" game setup would be the Zeiss V8 1.1-8x24. The fiber optic illumination, with motion sensor, is the finest true daylight illumination on the market. Also, if true life like color rendition and maximum resolution are important to you this is the scope you should consider.

All the best,

EJ

 

[Tra3]

I enjoyed the video! Thank you!

I started with a 1.25-4 swaro scope for DG. It wasn’t enough magnification for PG during the DG hunt. This year I returned with a swaro Z8i 1-8x. It was an amazing difference. The red dot worked great for the dark hide of a Buffalo and for rapid acquisition of a moving hippo. The 8x was sufficient for 200+ yard shots at PG. Early on I was so impressed with the scope that both my .375 and my daughter’s 9.3x62 got one before the trip. I’ve been using that scope for MN deer season too, it works for an up close tree stand shot to a 300 yard across-the-field shot.

I also agree that the swaro rail mount on a Blaser is a true return to zero. (As is the standard Blaser mounts).

I am unsure if I would prefer the 1.7-13x more than the 1-8x, having no experience with the former. But I am convinced that the added cost of quality glass is very important for all of us, since none of us are getting better vision with age.

Finally, I’ll add that it is near certainty that a nice PG option will present during a DG hunt. When a massive PG species is spotted at 200+ yards during a walk, no one will want to pass it up. The tracker will be saying “it is a nice one”, then the PH will take one look and have the sticks up… and you will take what the bush has to offer.

 

[uplander01]

Optics are a subject that carries with it a lot of opinions. I would agree swaro is at the top of the heap….but a guy into swaro should take a journey down the Schmidt Bender road for a minute before claiming swaro as the best. Both of those brands are absolutely superior in every way, eye relief, color, light gathering, reticle choice and illumination, I personally feel the sb has a more robust erector system, as critical a component as a lockable turret.

As far as mounting, I’ve never had the Talley system fail, ever. Been using them for over 20 years. Was bent on never using anything else ….until I acquired a rifle that had a properly done claw mount system——next level good stuff, but very expensive. And had a 375 that needed lower bases so I could get a better express sight picture and a guy talked me into a eaw pivot system, and I’m glad he did, they work as well, and there is no faster way to get a scope off a rifle.

IMO there are enough really good scope options at this point that are straight tube, illuminated, and have magnification up to 8x that I would never put a larger objective, big turrets etc on a rifle 375 or larger….personal preference I guess. One thing that comes with bigger objectives is higher mounting, and there is such a thing as cheek weld with your rifle in larger caliber——needs to be consistent.

Great video, a subject that I think many out there need to learn about. My last opinion—-as a general rule, I think this giant scope trend with turrets that are adjustable for range that encourage people to take really long shots is an industry mistake. Get in better shape, work harder, pass on the shots that are marginal, keep hunting, get closer, there will be much more satisfaction when you tell the story.

 

[CBH Australia]

I enjoyed the video and Philip's perspective . He makes some good points
I don't own scopes in that class but I have a good Zeiss and an older Swarovski.
In a perfect world we would have all of our preferred features in one package but that's not possible.
I would like to compare similar models of Zeiss, Swarovski, S&B and Leica and maybe even higher models of others to see what I see in them.
Reliability is possibly the most important factor but clarity and glass quality is highly desirable too.

 

[Dan458]

Here is a video where I discuss my journey in finding the ultimate DG scope. Bombs away!

Great video and excellent advice for the client looking to maximise their opportunities.
If you choose to hunt traditional like many of us do then you have to be willing to sacrifice opportunities in pursuit of the experience.
I’m glad you called out the quick release nonsense. QR rings are far more likely to fail than the scopes we have available today.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

@Philip Glass thanks for the video. The two cameras at different angle, certainly gives it a professional quality. While I agree with a lot of your comments and observations, I do want to offer some differing views on a couple of things.

The term "light gathering" is a bit of a misnomer and firmly embedded into "conventional wisdom." The real physical property that matters on light transmission in a scope or binoculars is "exit pupil." A variable scope will have a range of exit pupil, since it is the diameter of the objective lens divided by the power setting. So it you have a 1-8X by 24mm, the range of the exit pupil will be 3 to 24. So if the scope is cranked up to 8 power (exit pupil = 24mm / 8 = 3) and there isn't enough light to see, then lowering the power a bit will increase the exit pupil and at some point you might be able to see. Yes, a larger objective lens helps to give you sufficient exit pupil at higher power settings. The human eye becomes the limiting factor, particularly as we age. That limit varies, but for 60+ old geezers, it's around 4 to 5mm exit pupil.

One other comment on "Leupold." For whatever reason, many Americans (myself included) grew up pronouncing it "Lee-O-Pold." Several years ago, while watching TV hunting shows, I noticed the Leupold commercials pronounced it "Lou Pold." I figured they were getting it right and the Lee-O-Pold we all learned from Granddad and dad was incorrect.

 

[Rafiki]

Enjoyed the video. Apparently I purchased exactly the wrong scope (Leopold VX6 1x6x24) and exactly the wrong rings (QD) for my Ruger Safari Magnum Project. That's OK since prefer iron sights. I am curious that Philip's Ruger QD's don't retain zero, I haven't had that problem with my No 1; it has an AimPoint H30L in QD's. Maybe that's not a good example since I hardly ever mount it on the rifle.

 

[pc3]

Im really ineterested in real world comparisons between the Swaro Z8 1-8 and SB's 1-8 Exos.

I would like to put either of these on my .416 Rigby, with the smokey being the Swaro Z8 1.7-13 for the .416. This scope sounds like a do it all, but maybe more suited to a .375

 

[skydiver386]

My criteria for this type of scope has led me in an entirely different direction. Although the option to adjust to a higher magnification seems nice, for me the trade off is not worth it. The reduced field of view, inadequate eye relief, and often mounting height above the bore-line because of the larger objective are negatives.

I have found that 4X is more than adequate for even smaller targets at long ranges, but then again I'm a trained military shooter. The Remington rifles we used at that time carried a fixed 10X Leupold, and on the .300 Win caliber rifles we shot small targets at well over 1,000 yards.

Given the primary purpose of a DG rifle calls for large, often lower velocity calibers, sometimes less than 2,000fps from shorter barrels with heavy bullets, trying to hit any small target at over 200 yards would take a very precise distance and trajectory calculation. Be honest, how many of us have shot our DG rifle past 200 yards, and know the exact trajectory at these ranges?

I think we are attempting to make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

 

[Mark Biggerstaff]

First Thank you Phillip for an excellent video.

Do to my job I have had the opportunity to sell and try many different optics over the years. Africa especially has a different need on optics verses here in Texas.
After 5 trips. 5 buffalo 1 lioness and 46 plains game I have adjusted and changed scopes so many times I have lost count.
I have settled on what I feel is perfect for me. That is the key, Me. Each person needs to decide what is perfect for them.

CZ 458 Lott wears a Leupold VX6 Patrol 1-6 FireDot. This is non CDS version. Gun is for DG only up to 150 yards very comfortable shooting it. Many rounds down it

CZ 375 HH wears Leupold VX6 2-12 FireDot with CDS cut for 300gr Aframes. Have used out to 300 yards on plains game and is my back up DG. Plan on using it for Hippo and croc next year.

My 300 win mag which is my home hunting rifle and plains game in Africa
VX5 5-20x52 CDS FireDot. Why so big?
Long range South Texas or West Texas.
Also in Africa makes for nice optics shooting Baboons and long distance and open plains game areas.

These work best for me on these rifles.
I have gone to all Leupold now.
Eye relief is a key factor for me and field of view. These work best for my body frame

Each person needs to find what works best for them, there hunting situations, and body built.

My 2 cents.

 

[CoElkHunter]

First Thank you Phillip for an excellent video.

Do to my job I have had the opportunity to sell and try many different optics over the years. Africa especially has a different need on optics verses here in Texas.
After 5 trips. 5 buffalo 1 lioness and 46 plains game I have adjusted and changed scopes so many times I have lost count.
I have settled on what I feel is perfect for me. That is the key, Me. Each person needs to decide what is perfect for them.

CZ 458 Lott wears a Leupold VX6 Patrol 1-6 FireDot. This is non CDS version. Gun is for DG only up to 150 yards very comfortable shooting it. Many rounds down it

CZ 375 HH wears Leupold VX6 2-12 FireDot with CDS cut for 300gr Aframes. Have used out to 300 yards on plains game and is my back up DG. Plan on using it for Hippo and croc next year.

My 300 win mag which is my home hunting rifle and plains game in Africa
VX5 5-20x52 CDS FireDot. Why so big?
Long range South Texas or West Texas.
Also in Africa makes for nice optics shooting Baboons and long distance and open plains game areas.

These work best for me on these rifles.
I have gone to all Leupold now.
Eye relief is a key factor for me and field of view. These work best for my body frame

Each person needs to find what works best for them, there hunting situations, and body built.

My 2 cents.

I really like your scope choices. What bullet are you using in your .300? Thanks!

 

[Mark R]

You spoke in the video and indeed called your video ‘My take on dangerous game scopes’ and then compromised that by talking about a scope that also is good on pg.

 

[bowjijohn]

I enjoyed the video

It confirms my opinion

Or rather ....

I confirms my own personal bias

On my R8 in 404 I use

Iron sights
Aimpoint red dot
Swaro 1 - 8 x 24

On my R8 in 6.5 x 55 and .223 I use

Swaro 2 - 16 x 50

On my 9.3 x 62 I use

S & B 1.25 - 4 x 20
S & B 3 - 12 x 50

Perhaps it is unfair to compare the S & B 1 - 4 x 20 with the swaro 1 - 8 x 24 but, if I did, and although the S&B is fine, it is totally outclassed by the swaro

Same with the higher mag comparisons of S & B 3 - 12 x 50 and Swaro 2 - 16 x 50

I have a range of similar offerings by Vortex - they just don't compare. But why would they? As the price difference is huge

PS all my scopes are on a QR system

 

[Philip Glass]

...To each, their own.

Yes sir!

 

[Philip Glass]

Mr. Glass -

Thank you for the excellent review of your journey.

I have one significant disagreement logically. It may be that my thinking is boxed in. I also, with one whole safari, have a tenuous footing position, to say the least, while disagreeing with your greater experience base.

I have been taught here on AH and through my reading, that a PH will not provide/allow a shot longer than 50 yards on DG. Sure, some happen that way, but the solid expectation is for a close range shot at dangerous game. However, you quickly switch the parameters to include PLAINS game at 200 yards - this is not dangerous game hunting. Perhaps you should just state that you are seeking a Swiss army knife scope that can do everything? If that was your premise, then I could wholly/entirely agree with your arrived at choice. I certainly cannot afford it, but see how you got there.

Interesting that you have no cheekrest. I find this critical to align my ocular cavity behind the scope.

I also have switched to fixed rings and a tool in my bag to remove the scope if needed. Never been needed yet - even after the bakkie rolled on the highway and sent my rifle bouncing across the asphalt.

The firedot is an awesome step forward in sighting tools - totally agree.

I seem to be headed down your path - with the Leupold Black Friday sale, I acquired the VX5 3-15x44 with the thoughts of seeing if it will work to fully use the .30-06-like trajectory of the .375 Ruger. With the CDS system, is it possible to have the "one scope to rule them all" set-up on my Goldilocks rifle? It seems to me that it will be possible to effectively reach out to 400 and farther with the .375 Ruger. Other than the cost, it will undoubtedly be a fun journey finding out via going to the range and hunting.

Again - thanks for your views and input. It is valuable for us neophyte hunters to hear what someone with your experience opines.

Thanks for your thoughts on this. I have a couple of responses. One is on the distance on DG shots. I've never heard of a PH only allowing a 50 yard shot on DG. Now is it preferable? Yes, in most cases. I just shot a buffalo earlier this year in the EC at 82 yards with my double! Secondly I don't know of anyone who goes on a DG hunt and does not want the opportunity it's at a big Kudu as well! DG+PG is the norm.
Yes, I want the Swiss Army knife of DG scopes and I believe I've found it in my Z8.
Regards,
Philip

 

[Philip Glass]

Well done video with a similar journey that I went on for Safari scopes.

HH

Thanks

 

[Philip Glass]

Thanks for taking the time to create the videos....
For me I have been going in the other direction...
my last 2 trips to Zim.. all animals were shot with Iron Sights

Now that is fun! I've hunted with my double with iron sights and it is a nice change of pace But not for everyone.

 

[Philip Glass]

Talk about stirring the pot

I will say that I prefer a true 1x, but I agree with the need to “try before you buy” in regards to scopes and the benefits of illumination.

Yes that is the point to try different options. There is no difference between 1x and 1.3x, and frankly no practical difference at 2x. I shot the charging leopard in the mouth with the Leupold on 2x!

 

[Philip Glass]

I was the fourth person to watch your video - according to youtube ;-)

A question: When you were using that 1-6x24, did it work for you to shoot it with both eyes open at 1x or did you rarely use it at its lowest setting?

A secondary question: How close to 1x is your 1-6x24 in reality?

If I should summarize the message of your video, it seem to me that you want to use one single scope both for dangerous game and for other hunting opportunities on the same day and therefore you have chosen a compromise that works for different situations.

Your summary is correct. Having the most versatile scope possible is necessary when in the wilds of Africa. You never know what the next day may bring.
Yes I can shoot any of these scopes at close range with both eyes open. My point is there is no difference in these scopes on the low end of the magnification.