Muzzleloader for Cape Buffalo

[Fred Gunner]

45 cal 325gr Swift A Frame

Just bought the last box of these on the internet at Precision Reloading

 

[IvW]

These exact same 300gr. .44cal Swift A-Frames bullets have been used to take many Cape Buffalo with handguns at 44 mag velocity. With 130gr. of Hodgon Pyrodex RS Powder Hodgon load tables have a muzzle velocities @1700 fps. Swifts 44 mag 300gr factory ammo = 1346fps...I win!

I thought you only killed one buff before with a single shot? Perhaps the old hearsay theory......

Was wanting to ask are you hunting this buffalo on foot or shooting it from a bow bl8nd?

 

[flatwater bill]

@Fred Gunner.......did this hunt ever take place?...............FWB

 

[fourfive8]

@Fred Gunner.......did this hunt ever take place?...............FWB

Exactly! Most of these hyped build-ups, if successful, get reported on by hunters before they even get back from the trip. Might not have happened at all or it turned into a cluster flop?? No report seems suspicious because these are usually ego driven. Might also be that the gun itself proved to be not so great. I know that most of those SxS Kodiak muzzleloaders had a reputation for not regulating worth a crp. With the solution being sights on each barrel. Not to mention the difficulty and reality of coming up with an accurate and DG suitable bullet and load. After all, a 50 cal ML is not a big bore, neither effectively nor ballistically by any stretch. In any case, "inquiring minds want to know".

 

[62flint]

Exactly! Most of these hyped build-ups, if successful, get reported on by hunters before they even get back from the trip. Might not have happened at all or it turned into a cluster flop?? No report seems suspicious because these are usually ego driven. Might also be that the gun itself proved to be not so great. I know that most of those SxS Kodiak muzzleloaders had a reputation for not regulating worth a crp. With the solution being sights on each barrel. Not to mention the difficulty and reality of coming up with an accurate and DG suitable bullet and load. After all, a 50 cal ML is not a big bore, neither effectively nor ballistically by any stretch. In any case, "inquiring minds want to know".

I have shot more than a few critters with a muzzle loader. I WOULD not hunt a buff with a 50cal, Unless if was a modern muzzle loader that I could stuff a awful lot of powder in. Then finding a good modern bullet wouldn't be easy. My 50cal modern muzzle loader has good accuracy up to 115 grains of powder, Its rated more but accuracy drops. These things are meant for NA game , namely whitetails.
Now my .62cal flintlock with 120 grains of real black powder and a .610 round ball weighing at 324grains, maybe under 50 yards, maybe,,,,,,
The original English sporting rifles shot lead bowling balls and used enormous amounts of powder, good reading about them. Interestingly enough, at that time they had trackers, gun bearers and a wheel barrow man for the hunters balls on staff.

 

[fourfive8]

I have shot more than a few critters with a muzzle loader. I WOULD not hunt a buff with a 50cal, Unless if was a modern muzzle loader that I could stuff a awful lot of powder in. Then finding a good modern bullet wouldn't be easy. My 50cal modern muzzle loader has good accuracy up to 115 grains of powder, Its rated more but accuracy drops. These things are meant for NA game , namely whitetails.
Now my .62cal flintlock with 120 grains of real black powder and a .610 round ball weighing at 324grains, maybe under 50 yards, maybe,,,,,,
The original English sporting rifles shot lead bowling balls and used enormous amounts of powder, good reading about them. Interestingly enough, at that time they had trackers, gun bearers and a wheel barrow man for the hunters balls on staff.

Yes, Selous forever regretted using the combination of 4 bore round ball and huge amounts of black powder for elephants. An accidental double charge almost ended his career as an ivory hunter and explorer.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Gunner, have you checked into Lehigh Defense 44 cal Mono metal bullet. I forget the grain weight of these bullets. But I did test them on a buff in Zim and a gemsbuck in South Africa using my Magnum Reseach 4 5/8" barrel BFR.

The bullet in the buff was lodged between the meat and hide in the off shoulder.

I will have to look up the load data I used to verify, but I think these were chronograph at 1300 fps and the bullet weight is 300 grains.

The buff was already dead from a 300 gr 375 H&H I shot into him and the 458 WM my PH put in it.

As you can see the bullet is reloadable. With a double rifle an expanding bullet in one barrel and a solid bullet in the other you should be good to go.

Good luck with hunt.

 

[leslie hetrick]

i think i would invite a very fat one legged man along as extra insurance.

 

[Bert the Turtle]

When hunting with black power express rifles, hardened lead bullets were used on buffalo, not expanding bullets. I have no idea how hard hard was. And only those who lived to tell the tale wrote books. Bottom line, penetration is the priority, not expansion in this scenario.

I read a comment fairly early in the thread that hard bullets won’t engage properly. I don’t have much experience muzzleloading but I seem to recall a greased patch being placed on the muzzle and the bullet pounded in. Seems that worked fine. Now if we are talking about Minié type bullets, I understand the need for an alloy that will bump up to fill the rifling.

 

[Bert the Turtle]

Question: Pedersoli makes these rifles in larger calibers, including the Safari express in 72 caliber ( round ball). Why choose the smallest bore available?

Also, I highly recommend getting and reading a copy of The Sporting Rifle and its Projectiles. It has been a while since I read it but it was written at a time when black powder and lead were state of the art. There is no need to reinvent the wheel and no need for speculation.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

My choice for Cape buffalo (if limited to a muzzle loader) would be an October Country 10 bore. With hardened lead round ball driven by 6 drams of fine grained black powder. And I would only limit myself to broadside double lung shots.

 

[Bert the Turtle]

My choice for Cape buffalo (if limited to a muzzle loader) would be an October Country 10 bore. With hardened lead round ball driven by 6 drams of fine grained black powder. And I would only limit myself to broadside double lung shots.

Excellent choice.

Just got off their site- this thread reawakened my thoughts of getting a rifle from them.

 

[62flint]

2 reasons hard lead does not work well in muzzle loaders. I can not speak for original African hunting.
But I can say from personal experiences with up to 75cal and 150 grains of 2f goex.
1. Hard lead balls are hard to load unless undersized. My .62 cal rifle I use a lot. I shoot a .600 diameter round ball with .015-.018 cloth patching. The patching wraps the ball and makes it larger than bore diameter slightly. My other .62 rifle likes .610 round balls with the same patching. The 75 cal rifle shoots a .735 round ball with the same patching.
With all those loads you are slightly squeezing the ball down when you load it. Also if the ball/ patch combo is not tight enough. You can have a gas leak and accuracy will degrade.
2. There is a theory that pure soft lead is needed to expand and engage the rifling properly when the powder ignites. This a theory that many conversations are had with scotch or something similar.
Now with all that being said. I have seen a 735 diameter soft lead round ball will go length wise of a 200 pound whitetail at 100 yards. More than once. My 62,with 115 grains of powder has blown through almost every hog and white tail I have shot at any angle.
I still wouldn’t trust either on a Cape buffalo.
But a 4-8 bore hmmmm
If I could get black powder in africa I would be very tempted to hunt plains game. I just can not see my iron sights so good any more.

 

[Rafiki]

Take a look at Blackhorn 209 powder. It's supposed to be 15% livelier with some other benefits. I used it on a bison pushing a 620gr paper patch in my 50-90. Can't remember the fps but the results were devastating. It's made by Western powders.

What is the Kodiak regulated for?

 

[flatwater bill]

The only Kodiak rifles I have shot have not been regulated at all. They were relatively crudely made, and for this reason, had two sets of sights. It remains for the hunter to work up loads for each bbl. When shooting the neighbor's Kodiaks, we were able to get alternating barrels to shoot into paper plates at 40 yards without changing loads. Pretty good considering these are not London guns. The Turtle has given some good advice: muzzleloading for big game was done for over 200 years, and written on extensively. Forsyth's book is a good choice...............FWB

 

[HankBuck]

I know this has been done before, hopefully by some of the membership here. I’ve just today acquired a Pedersoli Kodiak Express MK VI Muzzleloading .50cal Double Rifle. After much research I settled on the .50 for a wider availability of premium sabot bullets.

View attachment 467693
My preferred loading would be 120-130 gr. of Hodgon Pyrodex RS Powder
pushing Swifts A-Frame black powder 50 Caliber Sabot with 44 Caliber 300gr. Bonded Hollow Point.

View attachment 467694

I’m adding Davide Pedersoli #209 Primer Nipple Conversion Kit for sure fire ignition.

I just last year took my first Cape Buffalo with a Ruger No.-1-H so before people start in with “it’s too dangerous” I’m stepping up to a double from a single.

I will as always practice relentlessly until I’m confident of a clean one shot kill.
I welcome any and all advice from hunters who have experience with Pedersoli Kodiak Express MK VI. I’m particularly interested in .50 cal loads for Cape Buffalo.
I’m aware that I can’t fly with powder or primers so any help finding 209 primers and Hodgon Pyrodex RS Powder in South Africa would be most welcome.

Thank you all in advance.

Fred Gunner, no doubt it’s more then enough to take Buffalo and you will be successful, my Question is “why” ? What’s the real point? It’s been done before and many times, it’s Not as difficult as a bow or even a cross bow and Not “as reliable” as a center fire rifle. I also MZ hunt in the US and Not because I think it’s more of a challenge (marginally so) but only because it allows me to hunt longer and earlier seasons for deer/bear etc. I bow hunt also and while. Find that more of a challenge - I drop my bow the minute fireams season opens. I know some hunters enjoy the added difficulty of a bow and the challenge of getting “closer”…..never understood that point for muzzleloaders. I hope my tone is not condescending or critical, it is meant to be “questioning”. Muzzleloader hunters earn their trophy’s as much as any other firearm hunter. Good luck

 

[Inline6]

Is powder available in Africa? I would not think flying with powder would be an option? I could be way off base and do not understand the logistics.

 

[rookhawk]

That is the limiting factor. You cannot ship or bring with you, any black powder or BP substitutes. I heard of someone bringing some huge cartridge gun to africa and a bullet puller, as a shill gun to justify bringing matched loaded ammunition. The cartridges when they arrived, were disassembled for the black powder contents to use in their muzzleloader in Africa. Goofy. You're then stuck trying to find an African ignition system. I suppose gently depriming 209 primers from shotgun shells would be the easiest, or a flint lock of course, but percussion caps would be impossible to transport/import.

Sounds like a lot of messing around, running afoul of handloading laws in some African jurisdictions, and a bit of danger using an insufficient gun and bullet on a deadly dangerous animal.

 

[fourfive8]

I don't know where anyone gets the idea that a 50 cal BP muzzleloader is a big bore. There is a reason the early European and other non-native hunters/ traders in Africa used really big bore BP muzzleloaders. There is a reason Selous used a 4 bore BP muzzleloader. I'm very certain he or any of them would have much rather used smaller BP muzzleloaders... much easier to shoot accurately. Logistically much easier and cheaper to get lead and powder for and to haul around, etc. It was not because there weren't plenty of 45, 50 and 58 cal BP muzzleloaders available. The ballistic reality is that a 50 cal BP muzzleloader is a good 75 yard deer caliber if the hunter is a good open sight shooter. Of course it's been done. Big write up during the 1970s renaissance of modern muzzleloader BP hunting with a group doing a full bag safari with 58 caliber single barrel guns shooting heavy charges and big, heavy conicals. But predictably the PHs having to do some 458 Mag clean up. Even little 22 centerfires have done it, many times making a mess of it. The only thing that Kodiak 50 BP double would allow you to do is to maybe put one shot where you want it with a bullet of questionable momentum and energy likely followed by the second barrel putting a bullet, if lucky, somewhere into a fleeing animal then having to have the PH finish it off if still around while you are jacking around reloading the gun. Not to mention the very real possibility or even likelihood of having to track and finish off a wounded buffalo. Whatever.

 

[steve white]

How much more effective would a 50 cal muzzle loader be than a shotgun slug? (except slower to reload)? I don't remember velocity numbers on a muzzle loader I once owned.