Multi-rifle advice

[Ray B]

Prior to accessing this site I had little interest in hunting Africa. Now it's not only a possibility, it's a probability- once the travel bans are banned. but I have a question. The rifles that I would be taking are a 470 double (open sights) and/or a 404 J bolt action with 1-4x scope. the game I would want would be a Cape buffalo and possibly a cull elephant. No particular desire for soft skinned game. the areas would be southern Africa depending on which country had the least hassle at the time. So the question is: would those two rifles be redundant or would it be an advantage to take both. the 470 would go for sure- the 404 could stay at home.

 

[mark-hunter]

I would go with both. After two PG safaris, I am in same status of planning - to go when my job schedule and travelling regulations allow.
The way how I would use these two rifles of yours: 404 scoped, bolt action, use first for acurate first shot. If the situation dicatets to look for (wounded) buff in the bush, switch to double rifle.
In case the hunting area is bush and first close shot is required first rifle to use is double rifle, on open sight.
For DG that you have planned, you have perfect set.

 

[375Fox]

I haven’t hunted elephant but I have hunted buffalo. The question to ask is how important is it to you to take both animals with an open sighted double? Both buffalo I’ve taken I’m not sure I could have taken a confident shot with open sights. I could have continued hunting for other opportunities though. The first buffalo hunting I ever did was in Zambia as a teenager. I would have a third buffalo had I had a scoped rifle on that hunt. I was borrowing the PHs open sight 458 and it was my only shot opportunity. I don’t think taking both rifles is redundant.

 

[Rem700stw]

There are far too many variables in your question to give a definitive answer. Where will you hunt? What time of year? How good is your eye sight? How well do you shoot a double rifle? Many other questions swirl in my head as well.

Perhaps the most important question is which is more important to you, using the double or harvesting the target animals? If you answer double or nothing (pardon the pun, I could not resist) then by all means take the double only. If harvest is the more crucial factor take both.

The scoped 404 gives you some options you do not have with the double. You may see the bull of a lifetime out of reach of the double or your abilities. I love my doubles even though I have only shot paper so far but I also know firsthand the power of the 404 on dangerous game.

My next trip (Summer 2022 hopefully) I will be taking a 450-400 and a 470. I am willing to roll the dice on this trip that I might not seal the deal at the range of 75 yards or so that I am comfortable with.

We are truly blessed to have such dilemmas.

 

[nztimb]

We are truly blessed to have such dilemmas.

Nicely put.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Unless you have a lot of experience with firing double rifles, I’d go with the .404 Jeffery. You can take some longer shots and most people ( subject to a few exceptions ) achieve better groupings with bolt action rifles than double rifles. Take both rifles if need be. No problem. I actually like @mark-hunter ‘s suggestion of predominantly using the .404 Jeffery and switching to the .470 Nitro Express in case you need to follow wounded dangerous game up into the thick stuff.

But I’d strongly discourage you from leaving the .404 Jeffery at home. Having hunted in Africa several times over the years, I can honestly tell you that a scope sighted bolt action rifle is FAR more versatile than an open sighted double. Out of all the Cape Buffalo and elephant that I’ve hunted, I attribute my success to using scope sighted bolt action .375 Holland & Holland Magnums . You can of course, exclusively use a double rifle. But you will find yourself compromising some shots which could otherwise have been easily made with a bolt action rifle.

 

[Tra3]

Take both. I agree with @mark-hunter and @375Fox that you will want a scoped rifle. It is a near certainty that you’ll end up taking some PG too, much easier to do so with a scope. Taking two guns along is easy.

 

[ActionBob]

Definitely take both! I'm sure you want to use your double on something and those are probably the best two species, possibly adding Hippo on land and rhino to the list of animals to take those two rifles.

Have a tracker carry the scoped 404 and if you need it, he can hand it up to you. But Definitely discuss this with your PH ahead of time. Some only have one tracker and he is busy tracking and probably carrying sticks or the PH'S rifle. Many or most DG PH'S have more than one tracker. Most I've seen was 5. IMO that was too many. But two or 3 can work well and even be nessasary at times.

We just got back from Tanzania and took a 470 double, 404 Jeffrey with a 1-6 illuminated scope, and 9.3x62 with a really great scope for PG. Of the 3, I could have hunted everything with the 404.

I really wanted to shoot a buffalo with my double and got close but never was quite able to pull the trigger on one. I only bagged one buffalo on that hunt and it was a head shot so had the 404 handed up from behind me.

 

[Tra3]

Definitely take both! I'm sure you want to use your double on something and those are probably the best two species, possibly adding Hippo on land and rhino to the list of animals to take those two rifles.

Have a tracker carry the scoped 404 and if you need it, he can hand it up to you. But Definitely discuss this with your PH ahead of time. Some only have one tracker and he is busy tracking and probably carrying sticks or the PH'S rifle. Many or most DG PH'S have more than one tracker. Most I've seen was 5. IMO that was too many. But two or 3 can work well and even be nessasary at times.

We just got back from Tanzania and took a 470 double, 404 Jeffrey with a 1-6 illuminated scope, and 9.3x62 with a really great scope for PG. Of the 3, I could have hunted everything with the 404.

I really wanted to shoot a buffalo with my double and got close but never was quite able to pull the trigger on one. I only bagged one buffalo on that hunt and it was a head shot so had the 404 handed up from behind me.

Did you use the 9.3x62? I’ve recently added one to compliment my .375 and will be taking it next summer.

 

[ActionBob]

Did you use the 9.3x62? I’ve recently added one to compliment my .375 and will be taking it next summer.

Oh heck yea! Between my wife and I i think we shot about 15 critters with it

It was her 404 we took. The Rigby HS 9.3x62 was mine when we left but half way through the hunt, especially after 3 one shot kills within an hour (wart hog, big stallion zebra, and the best sable I've seen taken in a real wild unfenenced are) and then an amazing second finisher shot at a running hartebeest which flopped him.... it was suddenly "her gun" That shot was not necessary as the first was clearly a quartering through the boiler room shot. But the 3 trackers, driver, game scout, PH and me all cheered spontaneously as it flopped from that running shot!

Now let's not derail this 470/404 thread any further with talk of these small calibers

 

[Safari Dave]

I would take both.



I wanted to take a buffalo with my .470 in Mozambique this year, but the opportunity NEVER presented itself. My only shot was a "thread the needle" 60-80 yard shot, with a scoped .416.



It would have been nice to use the double, but in my case, I could have easily come home without a trophy, if I only had only the double.



The scoped rifle was also necessary on the smaller stuff.

 

[Joker12]

I would take both simply to have a backup rifle.

 

[BeeMaa]

Not completely redundant because there is a gap in the cartridge ballistics, but it's close. That said, it's your hunt and you get to have the hunt you want to the best of the outfitters capabilities. I'd certainly understand if you took both.

If you are hunting with an open sighted double rifle, you will need to limit your range. This could mean passing up opportunities that could present itself at the outer reaches of your abilities. If you are OK with that or possibly having another member of the hunting party be your gun bearer with the second scoped rifle...you should be fine. It's also possible you may need to pay extra for a gun bearer if needed.

Personally, I'm one for traveling light and that means one rifle with a scope. 404J for everything (DG and PG) would be hard to beat.

 

[reineke]

Definitely take the two with you! I had several hunts with your planned combination, shot my Ele and the Buff, but always, planned or not, some PG in addition. My combination was a custom made Mauser-Type Rifle in 9,3x64 with a Zeiss Scope and at first a .500 NE Double with open sights.
But I found out that hunting Buff in Africa-in my case mainly Zimbabwe- very often is difficult with just open sights- the buffaloes tend to hide in dark spots inside or behind thornbushes, where, at least later in the day, the open sights don't give you enough contrast to really know where you are aimed. So I sold the double and continued with a .458 Lott with a 1,25-4x20 Schmidt&Bender with extended eye relief- very important with this caliber.
Apart from that, your combination looks good-I would make the Double my Backup-Rifle -I agree with mark-hunter. But practically speaking in the heat of a DG-Hunt don't rely on switching the rifle when you actually are in front of your prey. Usually the person carrying it is not readily at hand, or you spook the buff by changing rifles. And you usually loose time. So another advantage of you combination is that you can shoot everything you want with the Jeffery and switch rifles only if there is time enough and you are sure that the situation definitely calls for the Double.

 

[spike.t]

Take both...don't over think ...enjoy

 

[IvW]

Take both your desires will change very quickly once you hit ground zero....trust me.....

 

[rookhawk]

Prior to accessing this site I had little interest in hunting Africa. Now it's not only a possibility, it's a probability- once the travel bans are banned. but I have a question. The rifles that I would be taking are a 470 double (open sights) and/or a 404 J bolt action with 1-4x scope. the game I would want would be a Cape buffalo and possibly a cull elephant. No particular desire for soft skinned game. the areas would be southern Africa depending on which country had the least hassle at the time. So the question is: would those two rifles be redundant or would it be an advantage to take both. the 470 would go for sure- the 404 could stay at home.

@Ray B you definitely want to be a belt and suspenders man when you go to Africa. If your ammo is lost (it happens a lot) you have two bites at the apple to panhandle for a few rounds when you come with two calibers. Guns also break on safari. A lot. You always, always bring two.

Regarding your statement "just a buffalo and an elephant" I think that's a bad plan. You've traveled halfway around the world, you should target at least two other categories of animal on your hunt even if you're not seeking thin skinned game.

1.) You ALWAYS hunt the unusual, endemic animal that is localized to that specific place. Oribi, Tsessebe, Bushbuck, Grysbok, Lechwe, etc. Odds of you ever going back to that specific place where that odd animal lives ever again are pretty slim. These are not high cost add-ons either. Don't blow your money on kudu, zebra, eland, impala, warthog...those will found everywhere you go on your next 5 safaris. But the grysbok, tsessebe, or other odd critter? If it lives in that pocket of nature you hunt, that's your chance.

2.) You BETTER hunt the animals that are quickly being sought for permenant ban if you can conceive of a time where you wanted to hunt them ever. I'm talking about Spotted Hyena, Leopard, and Giraffe. Those three animals are definitely uncertain to be legal to hunt in the future. Especially spotted hyena and giraffe for whatever bizarre reason.

As to your rifle battery, if you're hunting elephant, the 470 comes with. If you're just doing buffalo, the 404j. The second rifle as backup and for smaller things is always a 375HH.

Just my opinion which many will surely disagree.

 

[Tanks]

Take both. One thing you might also consider is to put a red dot on the .470. It really makes a difference.

 

[Sika98k]

I would take both simply to have a backup rifle.

I’d agree with that. A few years ago the scope on my 375, an old 3-9x36 Diavari popped seals on the flight and clouded up. I was very glad to have the 275 along as well.

 

[rookhawk]

I’d agree with that. A few years ago the scope on my 375, an old 3-9x36 Diavari popped seals on the flight and clouded up. I was very glad to have the 275 along as well.

another reason I don’t own a rifle that doesn’t have quick detach scope mounts. Scopes are always in my carry on. Better than unpressurized in the belly of the plane at subzero temps and 44,000’.

update: I’m informed on large planes, belly is pressurized, but may or may not be heated. I’ve certainly recovered Ice cold baggage in the tropics. Still carry my scopes on the plane with me.