Moving/Retiring to South Africa, or other places in Africa for that matter

[BRICKBURN]

……….

Here is the ultimate millionaire playground for sale in Namibia: http://allafrica.com/stories/201402040769.html.

Buying Erindi… hmmm.
Only 130 Million. Cheap at only $809 per acre.


You all ready to chip in?

 

[Red Leg]

One of the options is to invest jointly with a Namibian or South African in a hunting property. I know two people in DSC who have done that; one in Namibia and one in RSA. For obvious reasons, I do not know the exact details of the investment or the structure of the deal, but knowing the individuals, I suspect each is in for about 500 to 750k. In both cases, it is a joint ownership deal with the PH running the hunting operation and the "silent" US partner earning a minority share of the profits. In each case, they built homes/camps on the property and hunt from them when they are in country. These are both plains game/leopard areas.

 

[Wheels]

Thank you for that link Wheels, if this is the price you should jump on that deal… This must be a misprint as no property of this size would sell for anywhere near this price. Anyway I think that the size of this property is probably 3,200 acres and not 32,000 acres. That's still a good size for someone who wants a private hunting paradise.

Here is the ultimate millionaire playground for sale in Namibia: http://allafrica.com/stories/201402040769.html.

The link I provided is probably an expired listing. It has shown up in Vivun for a few years.

WOW. If the property in your link sells for anything close to the asking price it has to make those of you that are large landholders in Namibia pretty happy.

I was familiar with a property in the Komas Hochland that was for sale about 10 years ago. It was around 20,000 acres and $500,000USD. It had no improvements and no permanent water. I may be a little off on the size and the price but do remember that it worked out to$25/acre.

Jerome, can you give us an idea of an appreciation rate for land in Namibia in recent years?

All the best.

 

[DOC-404]

As I've fallen in love with Africa I've thought about retiring there, or at least spending a large portion of time there at some point. This is assuming that my wife loves it like I do as well. Although if I get her a place on the beach I think that will do the trick!

..move to my village by sea in Namibia, spend some time in the pub with me and Spike, and then I'll teach you how to hunt poachers..

 

[Royal27]

..move to my village by sea in Namibia, spend some time in the pub with me and Spike, and then I'll teach you how to hunt poachers..

That's it. I'm in! Close the thread!

 

[Velo Dog]

I'll check the video out.

My sister and her family (husband is an Air Force Officer) have lived all around the world in their over 20 years of service. of all of the places they have been stationed Alaska (Elmendorf) has bee their favorite. I drove to Alaska after college and stayed for a bit, then drove back. looking back, I'm really surprised, and sorry, that I didn't stay longer. I will definitely look you up when I make it again!

Royal

Excellent, and I will look forward to your triumphant return one day.

 

[spike.t]

..move to my village by sea in Namibia, spend some time in the pub with me and Spike, and then I'll teach you how to hunt poachers..

Doc the only thing is its bloody freezing there!! mind you i was the only one wearing a fleece but it wasnt warm sitting in that pub and the wind off the atlantic..............mmm"thinking" the jaeger shots did help though

Royal as pete said it can get very frustrating dealing with people, govnt depts etc. i first came to an african country hunting in 1989(tanzania) and went to sci in jan 1990 for the first time. during these 2 trips i got to know people , mostly phs from zim and zambia and ended up going out to visit them and mess about jaunting between the 2 countries. i hunted again in 1990 and 91(zambia both times), then as i knew phs and safari company owners i booked hunts for friends and went along with them. i was spending between 2 to 3 months a year down there, and got to know more people, some who are like extended family now. i had put some money into a fishing lodge in zambia in the early 1990s and then got involved with a private reserve with 2 people i knew in zambia. this was approx 14,000 hectares in the luangwa valley. they had some problems and we had to sell it, and i was happy to make some money on it. at the same time i had also ended up buying what is now Takeri after being told about it by the person who had the fishing lodge. it basically had a small house on it , some fruit trees and junk farm equipment, so everything on it now from the fence, dams, animals, roads, workshop etc we have had to put on. patsy bought a friend of mine out who more liked the idea than actually being here......and i am glad she did as the management before used to drive me up the wall with a more laid back attitude and any amount of reasons why something couldnt be done!!!! so thats sort of how i ended up being involved here. as everyone here knows after your first trip you want to head back. the first hunt i mentioned was a 30 day hunt in the selous, and it was the first time i had been on a holiday where i wasnt ready to go home two thirds of the way through it. you could have left me there and i would probably still be there now . but the reality for most people is i think the novelty would wear off , quicker with some than others, as you are far from your home , family and friends and possibly comfort zone. to stop being bored as you wouldnt be hunting or fishing all the time you would have to make a careful choice of where you would base yourself. i dont think any countries apart from SA would be anygood for you. in SA you have a lot more choice in climate , types of country side etc. you also have cities/ towns etc on the ocean and you have the winerys, and a much more diverse choice of things to see and do, but i think even that would loose its sparkle in the end. i think the best thing for you would be to rent a house/apt for 6/8 weeks and see how you got along. but remember to look ahead and not be wowed by this first long visit, as how will the next ones be as things calm down.....also some countries have a maximum time you can spend in that country in a year if you arent a citizen , resident or have a work permit etc, dont know what the score with that is in SA though. cheers mike

 

[ActionBob]

Spike, great (and much anticipated reply and thanks for the insight and history of your involvement in Africa!

Royal;
Also check out page 62 of the September issue of Petersen's Hunting magazine. They list Namibia as one of 3 best places International places to live and hunt. Not sure what criteria they used, pretty sure gun ownership and taxes where not a high priority as they included B.C. Canada. also included N.Z. and in particular the South Island... That sounds interesting! Not sure about the exchange rate to N.Z.?

 

[Royal27]

Thanks Spike!

That's great perspective and advice. Would definitely go "short term" before "all in." I really think I could do it, but I don't know about the wife. I guess you never know til you are there, but the different way of life appeals to me. What I call the "fast food society" where we expect everything instantly annoys me to death and the idea of things not all being as perfect appeals to me in a way.

P.S. I can't imagine that I'd think anywhere in Africa is cold! Now where Velo Dog lives.....

It is all just a dream at this point, but so was hunting in Africa. Everyone should mark their calendar and check this thread in ten years to see what I've decided. LOL

Spike, great (and much anticipated reply and thanks for the insight and history of your involvement in Africa!

Royal;
Also check out page 62 of the September issue of Petersen's Hunting magazine. They list Namibia as one of 3 best places International places to live and hunt. Not sure what criteria they used, pretty sure gun ownership and taxes where not a high priority as they included B.C. Canada. also included N.Z. and in particular the South Island... That sounds interesting! Not sure about the exchange rate to N.Z.?

Very interesting.... I haven't taken Petersen's in years, but will see if I can't find it.

 

[billc]

Royal and bob just remember your new best friend in PA if you get that place in africa.Keep my cell number and email and let me know if you need any more info to stay in touch.LOL

I will offer my handyman service for rent even.Plus you can keep the meat of all the animals I shot there.

 

[Wheels]

Doc the only thing is its bloody freezing there!! mind you i was the only one wearing a fleece but it wasnt warm sitting in that pub and the wind off the atlantic..............mmm"thinking" the jaeger shots did help though

Royal as pete said it can get very frustrating dealing with people, govnt depts etc. i first came to an african country hunting in 1989(tanzania) and went to sci in jan 1990 for the first time. during these 2 trips i got to know people , mostly phs from zim and zambia and ended up going out to visit them and mess about jaunting between the 2 countries. i hunted again in 1990 and 91(zambia both times), then as i knew phs and safari company owners i booked hunts for friends and went along with them. i was spending between 2 to 3 months a year down there, and got to know more people, some who are like extended family now. i had put some money into a fishing lodge in zambia in the early 1990s and then got involved with a private reserve with 2 people i knew in zambia. this was approx 14,000 hectares in the luangwa valley. they had some problems and we had to sell it, and i was happy to make some money on it. at the same time i had also ended up buying what is now Takeri after being told about it by the person who had the fishing lodge. it basically had a small house on it , some fruit trees and junk farm equipment, so everything on it now from the fence, dams, animals, roads, workshop etc we have had to put on. patsy bought a friend of mine out who more liked the idea than actually being here......and i am glad she did as the management before used to drive me up the wall with a more laid back attitude and any amount of reasons why something couldnt be done!!!! so thats sort of how i ended up being involved here. as everyone here knows after your first trip you want to head back. the first hunt i mentioned was a 30 day hunt in the selous, and it was the first time i had been on a holiday where i wasnt ready to go home two thirds of the way through it. you could have left me there and i would probably still be there now . but the reality for most people is i think the novelty would wear off , quicker with some than others, as you are far from your home , family and friends and possibly comfort zone. to stop being bored as you wouldnt be hunting or fishing all the time you would have to make a careful choice of where you would base yourself. i dont think any countries apart from SA would be anygood for you. in SA you have a lot more choice in climate , types of country side etc. you also have cities/ towns etc on the ocean and you have the winerys, and a much more diverse choice of things to see and do, but i think even that would loose its sparkle in the end. i think the best thing for you would be to rent a house/apt for 6/8 weeks and see how you got along. but remember to look ahead and not be wowed by this first long visit, as how will the next ones be as things calm down.....also some countries have a maximum time you can spend in that country in a year if you arent a citizen , resident or have a work permit etc, dont know what the score with that is in SA though. cheers mike

Mike,

Enjoyed learning more of your history. Certainly want to spend some time around a campfire with you one day. Moving to a place for a few months before making a decision to buy.......Sage advice.



For those that want to learn more about the business climate in various African countries and for those of you that are business minded (like buying a farm) you might want to subscribe to this:

http://africanbusinessmagazine.com/

This is certainly not Forbes or the WSJ. Most articles are marginal but there are normally a couple an issue that are enlightening and an occasional one that makes you think "I need to check this out".

I'm enjoying this thread. A number of interesting thoughts.

All the best.

 

[Royal27]

I'm going to check out the magazine Wheels.

Part of my current "retirement" plan, besides moving to Africa , is to have a second career that is less hours and less stress, even if considerably less money. Heck, if I found something I really loved I'd be fine with the hours, but I want a passion and not a job if that happens. The thought of running a little farm/ranch is very appealing. I grew up on a farm actually and never wanted to do anythinbut farm. It just didn't work out for me. I'm really working now so that I can afford a second career and be able to do what I want while I'm still relatively young. I definitely don't want to work until I die!!!

And, I think I'm leaning even more strongly towards moving. I mean first DOC offers to take me poacher hunting and now Billc tells me that I can keep all of his meat if I let him stay for a couple of weeks. With what Bill will shoot in one trip I'll have a lifetime supply of Biltong!!! How can I not move???

In all seriousness, this really has turned out to be an interesting thread. It hasn't caused me to stop dreaming, but perhaps to change the angle of the dream a bit.

 

[Pheroze]

I had a piece of property in another country a few years ago. It was an apartment in a larger building on a resort. Nice setup until the economy went into the crapper. I was at a distinct disadvantage being in another country. My ability to deal with things was greatly hampered by the distance, lack of local contact which made it very expensive. My thoughts are to find a rental place or resort that becomes a second home because of the amount of time you spend there. You get treated like a king and someone else has the property management woes. I am not sure how that would work for farming. For me it is a matter of once bitten twice shy. I doubt I will own Ina foreign jurisdiction again but I could definitely see spending long stretches of the winter in a warm hospitable place.

 

[ActionBob]

Bill we will be sure to find a place with a barn, or shed... or maybe a lean to out back you can stay in, and an outhouse..... Or maybe some bushes behind the barn? So you'll need to be careful of the thorns.......

Seriously, if I rent a place someday, by all means your invited to visit. I'm probably a little less gung ho than Royal.... And really concerned about the politics and risk of losing an investment... But still intrigued.

 

[tarbe]

Royal

What makes your dream possibly workable (in my mind) is that it won't happen until after you no longer need to make more than just a little money!

My perspective is very limited, but I do work for the largest corporate tax payer in RSA...and I can tell you that the working age professionals are crawling all over each other to get assignments here in the States. Many that come immediately start working on the citizenship aspect (as much for their children's benefit as anything, I suspect).

But most of these folks are on the wrong end of affirmative action and such things...something that would hopefully not be an issue for you and Nancy given your time frame and goals.

Maybe you could work on your bushman skills and hire out to Loodt as a tracker!!

Your ad could read: "Will work for biltong"!

 

[ActionBob]

Wasn't something posted that RSA is the only country in the World that has affirmative action that works against it's minority population?

We do business with several World wide companies so we had a farm tour set up with a couple representatives of one of these companies.... They were white guys and said that as they retire or quit their jobs, it is law that their company hire colored or black people to fill the positions until they have a racial balance. The one guy for sure was ready to move to the States if he found an opportunity. He had been in here as a college exchange student.

 

[Royal27]

Royal

What makes your dream possibly workable (in my mind) is that it won't happen until after you no longer need to make more than just a little money!

My perspective is very limited, but I do work for the largest corporate tax payer in RSA...and I can tell you that the working age professionals are crawling all over each other to get assignments here in the States. Many that come immediately start working on the citizenship aspect (as much for their children's benefit as anything, I suspect).

But most of these folks are on the wrong end of affirmative action and such things...something that would hopefully not be an issue for you and Nancy given your time frame and goals.

Maybe you could work on your bushman skills and hire out to Loodt as a tracker!!

Your ad could read: "Will work for biltong"!

Exactly Tim - I've figured this much about myself Tim. I'm not a risk taker. I used to think I was, but I'm not. Therefore, I will never put all of my eggs in one basket and risk it all. Heck, I'll never be rich due to this and I'm completely good with that. IF i do something like this I would never want it to be a stresser for me.

So I think you're spot on. I wouldn't want to worry about the income at that point and just a little income somewhere would just reduce the stress as it would only be "needed" to do those extra things. You know, like to upgrade your hunt from tuskless to bull elephant.

I will NEVER have the skills to be a tracker!!! I have however, offered to either fix fence for Loodt, or to be his personal driver. Those tasks are within my skill set and I would work for biltong!