Mountain rifle combination - Request for opinions

[Hunting Sailor]

7 x 64 Brenneke

Thanks for the reply@IvW.
How available is the ammo here in SA?

I used a 7x64 for a roebuck and a boar in Austria a few years ago. I liked the caliber and the rifle, an old Mauser with 2 stage trigger.

// Gus

 

[sheephunterab]

For those sized animals I'd say any of the 6.5s or 7mms would be a good choice. Really, pretty well any of the medium velocity catridges would get you to 450 yards....with the right scope of course. We routinely shoot to 500 with a 30-06.

 

[Hunting Sailor]

I guess it depends on your definition of "mountain rifle" --- whether you are trying to get the weight down as much as possible or just not excessively heavy.

If it's the former: at 7 pounds, there is nothing light about the Model 70 Featherweight nor is a 42mm scope going to work. This setup works for the latter, though I still think the scope is probably about 18-20 ounces; therefor too heavy for my taste on a standard rifle.

If you're looking for a light setup, I think you need to be max 6 1/2 pounds for the rifle, 12 ounces for the scope, and steel rings and mounts (I'd still use steel).

Thanks for the answer @curtism1234.
I am not going to go extreme, more of a lighter rifle, that is lighter than standard, but would look into some details as well.
If the 42 scope would be too heavy what scope do you recommend?

//Gus

 

[curtism1234]

The other thing to consider is how the larger scopes look on a rifle, it can look excessive especially if you're wanting a smaller lighter rifle. If you get the Featherweight, I'd probably go with a 40mm.

The exception to the weight rule is Leupold. They actually have some 12-13 ounce scopes 42mm like you're looking for. I like the Vx 3 series because the dials are a step up in quality from the VX1 and 2. Their lower series scopes have solid review though.

If you didn't want to go with Leupold, then I'd probably stick with a 3-9x40 from another reputable company - Nikon, a better than average series Bushnell, or Vortex. It depends on how much you want to spend.

 

[Hunting Sailor]

The other thing to consider is how the larger scopes look on a rifle, it can look excessive especially if you're wanting a smaller lighter rifle. If you get the Featherweight, I'd probably go with a 40mm.

The exception to the weight rule is Leupold. They actually have some 12-13 ounce scopes 42mm like you're looking for. I like the Vx 3 series because the dials are a step up in quality from the VX1 and 2. Their lower series scopes have solid review though.

If you didn't want to go with Leupold, then I'd probably stick with a 3-9x40 from another reputable company - Nikon, a better than average series Bushnell, or Vortex. It depends on how much you want to spend.

@curtism1234
Thanks for the input.

I guess I could have been clearer about the scope. I prefer smaller lens diameter, even a 36 I think would work for me. It will be daylight hunting, so I would want as small as possible with a max of -10x42. I like Leupold, so not an issue there.
I understand the needs for large scopes, but I believe that is not the correct tool for this job.
I also don't think I need illuminated reticle for the same reason as above.

//Gus

 

[stug]

A 30/06 will easily work to 400yds. Load it up with a good ballistic coefficient projectile like the Hornady Eld-x 168 or 178 at about 2600fps and you will be fine.
My friend is using the 178 eld-m in his 308 at 2650fps and I've watched him put 2 shots within 5" of each other at 980yds.
For long range shooting you want a high BC bullet rather than a light fast one.
If you want a different rifle a Tikka T3 in 7mm Rem mag will do it even better.
400 yds is not that far really even a 708 with the right projectile will do it.

 

[sheephunterab]

If you are considering shooting to 450 yards as you stated then a ballistic reticle or external turrets on your scope would be a must. It's not hard to get most rifles to shoot that distance but unless you can put the crosshair where you want the bullet to land at all ranges from 0-450 yards, you aren't shooting responsibly. Lots of chamberings will give you a 300 yard point blank range but after that it's an entirely new world, especially on some of the smaller sized game you've identified.

 

[Hunting Sailor]

If you are considering shooting to 450 yards as you stated then a ballistic reticle or external turrets on your scope would be a must. It's not hard to get most rifles to shoot that distance but unless you can put the crosshair where you want the bullet to land at all ranges from 0-450 yards, you aren't shooting responsibly. Lots of chamberings will give you a 300 yard point blank range but after that it's an entirely new world, especially on some of the smaller sized game you've identified.

@sheephunterab
I've never used external turrets for any shooting, so I cannot say anything about that. Ballistic reticle I've used, but I haven't thought of adding that to this setup, but perhaps that would be a good addition. Thanks for bringing that up.
My longest measured shot was 342m using a 30-06 with a 3-9x40 duplex reticle. I do not take shot unless I'm confident with the shot and distance, know the drop and the distance. Most shots and animals I've taken are way below 200m so that would be a normal aim for the vitals shot.

The stated 400m would be the max in a pinch, but 300 would be the normal max. I consider myself a better hunter/stalker than shooter, so I prefer to come in closer, much closer, than the max numbers. Many times it is possible, but on occasions it is not, so whether I take the shot at max would be on the day, support, wind, recovery, how can I come closer etc.

I would however like to get the setup that would make the 400m possible if it comes to that. Then it would be, as you mentioned, up to me to be as prepared as I could possibly be to make a sensible and responsible shot.

Hope the above makes sense.

//Gus

 

[Abeln]

In addition to my earlier post:
Leupold has excellent customer service and reticle replacement is readily available through their shop.

I have three Vx-3 1.75-6x32 that I had a German #4 installed. They weigh in at approx. 10.5 oz. Also had the duplex swapped for mil-dot in the 3.5-10x40. That scope is a bit over 12oz. The mil-dot helps by adding the hold overs for quicker shots. The dials are finger adjustable and work for me but a cds dial can be added for a more caliber specific elevation adjustment. I personally prefer the cds dial for the elevation turret and the regular finger dial for windage. Dial for elevation if time permits, if not then use the mil-dot. Use mil-dot for windage as needed.

VX-3 = low profile dials, 1" tubes, lightweight, numerous reticle and turret choices, excellent warranty and customer service, glass is great for any hunting during legal light, the alumina lens caps are a bonus. Very nice scopes for hunting.

Edited to add:
Maybe this detail isn't important to some but I despise having giant white lettered brand names plastered on my hunting gear. It is in my opinion tacky and unappealing. This is another reason I love the VX-3. Plain black with only the gold ring. If gold ring is too much bling then a mark 4 can fit the bill. Sacrifices include: a bit more weight and a 30mm tube. Advantages include: already has mil-dot or tmr reticle (I prefer mil-dot due to heavier outer posts and because I prefer mil-dot) and a reputation for being robust.

 

[stug]

A 3-9 Leupold with a CDS turret in Minute of Angle and a ballsitic app on your smart phone will get you a long way. Aiming straight at the target, rather than holding off, will always be more accurate.
Leupold do make replacement caps for some of the older models too. You can have them made to your specific load, or jsut get a generic Minute of Angle set (my preference) Just serach "leupold replacement turret caps"
I zero my rifle (7mm mag) to 100 yds. I then dial my turrets to 2.25MOA. This will give me a dead on hold out to 250 yds. Anything past there I usually have time to use my ballistic app to work out the vertical adjustment, dial my scope, then take ths shot.
Believe me once you have shot to 400yds, then 600 yds doesn't seem that far. Also shooting rocks at 600 yds makes shooting animals at 300 -400 yds a piece of cake!

 

[sheephunterab]

For sure Gus.....so many people talk about 400+ yard shots but few really appreciates what goes into consistently making them, especially on small game. We are not long range shooters by any means but do appreciate that occasionally it's either make a long range shot or don't shoot so we hunt with the gear and skill to make them when we are forced to. It's no real comment on your skill as a hunter but rather it's a comment on your time in the field. Spend enough time out there and the situation will arise. When it does I like to be prepared. A ballistic reticle is definitely the most simple set up and you can use it like a regular duplex reticle until required. I'm not much for fussing with turrets and I have a reticle that's yardage indicated so it's as simple as using the #5 hashmark at 500 yards. I'll put up with a scope that weighs a few extra ounces for that convenience. And, the older I get the more I appreciate higher magnification. When hunting reedbuck or rhebuck or klipspringer, it's an awfully small target at 400+ yards and the higher magnification is a real plus. Anyhow, some things to consider.

 

[Michael Dean]

I like your choice of 270WSM; I built a custom 270WSM bolt action with a 22inch barrel and a McMillian featherweight synthetic stock, topped off with a Leupold 2-12 with their CDS, custom dial system. If shooting out to 400-450 yards is a potential both the caliber choice of 270WSM combined with Leupold's CDS system provides an excellent combination for even the most challenging situations.

 

[curtism1234]

I personally think the milldot / ballistic reticles are much too busy and cause as many problems for hunters as they help. Many times people get rushed or confused and end up using the wrong dot.

The duplex formula on a medium sized animal for most cartridges is very simple:
200 yards and under: aim dead on
200-300 yards: aim 3/4 up
300 yards and over: aim at the top of the back
If you have to aim over the animal or make field adjustments to the scope (which should NEVER be trusted), it's too far to shoot.

 

[sheephunterab]

I agree that Mildots and many ballistic reticles are confusing but with a yardage indicated reticle it's as simple as using #4 for 400, #5 for 500 and so on. It doesn't get any simpler. Much simpler than remembering where to place a certain part of your duplex anyhow.

 

[stug]

or make field adjustments to the scope (which should NEVER be trusted), it's too far to shoot.

You need to try some of the modern scopes, they are very repeatable. I recently clamped my scope down to check the adjustments. Dialed it to 5MOA and back to zero, no change, dialled it to 10MOA and back to zero, no change, repeated this to 15 and 20 MOA, no change in zero. This scope has held zero for the 3 years I've had it, doing lots of dialling.

 

[008]

I have a Rifles Inc 300 winmag that's just under 5#s without the scope. Perfect for me for the mountains or long treks.

 

[1dirthawker]

Sailor,

i live in Alaska and have done a bit of mountain hunting. hunted and guided dall sheep, mt goats and caribou.

i think for an accurate, over the counter and available rifle, a tikka ultralight is a nice choice. 6.25# and a 1 inch accuracy guarantee. not too bad.

regarding caliber, i would recommend 30 caliber or smaller. truthfully, a 300 magnum in a light rifle is not much fun to shoot, trending toward brutal depending on the angle of the shot. (which in mountain country is a guarantee)

the game you will be hunting should dictate caliber choice. i would avoid a 270 wsm (i had one), expensive to shoot and not a huge jump in ballistics. a 270 win, 7mm rem mag or a 3006 (thats what i ended up with because it is so versatile) are good choices. (a 3006 with light barnes bullets is a screamer, but light bullets don't penetrate as well and lose their velocity more quickly)

scoping it: i used a 2-7 leupold for years and never felt the need for more magnification. i would look at a light weight scope in a 2-7, 2.5-8, 3-9 as a max magnification.

truthfully, how much you are willing to spend is the limit. there is a phrase up here "figure on spending $100 for every ounce of weight you save". in my experience, that statement is not too far off base. good luck.

 

[sheephunterab]

Something to consider when comparing North American needs and South African needs when discussing magnification is that some of the animals he's hunting are 1/4 or less than the size of a Dall sheep. They are tiny targets with more tiny kill zones. I know I was happy for every extra power of magnification hunting the mountains on the Eastern Cape.

 

[Buckdog]

ok now none of you will like my recommendations but screw the light weight BS. I have hunted LOTS of big mountains, killed sheep, goats, etc, etc. I carry what you guys would call a heavy cannon a 300 win mag with a S&B 3-12 scoped with double turrets and parallax adj. I shot a klipspringer 375m just about 1 month ago, also a vaal rhebuck, etc. Multiple witness to the shots not just BS claims. Sir what you ask of a light rifle with a low weight low power scope small objective without parallax adj and dual turrets to shoot well at 400 yds isn't routinely possible and more often than not just throwing lead and hope. You cant just guess and hold over when it gets past 300yds or you miss or wound animals in the real world. It is better to carry some weight and a rifle scope combination very capable of making 400 yd shot if you plan to shoot 400yds. Trust me hitting a klippy spot on at 375m isn't just all that easy. Sizing the animal when it is a minnow with a leupold duplex or some other such nonsense if useless. You need to range the animal, read wind and then count the appropriate number of clicks adj the parallax and last of all be able to lock that rifle in and shoot 400yds plus in a hunting situation not from the bench on sand bags. Craig Bodington had a article a few months ago and he also stated he wasn't a light rifle fan for many reason. I bet I am way older than you and I can still lug a cannon up a mtn because when it comes time to shoot if I busted my ass and I need to reach out and touch something my heavy ass cannon will. Now if you want to shoot inside 200yds go light with a 30-06 and 3-9 scope and do it fine all day just don't BS yourself and say that's a 400 yd rig it aint!

 

[Hunting Sailor]

Thanks everyone for the input, I asked for opinions and I'm grateful to those who shared them and also backed with lots of experience.
It's passed my bedtime, so I will read each answer more thoroughly tomorrow, but wanted to say thanks before I say good night.

//Gus