MOST RE-SELLABLE DOUBLE RIFLE?

[Shootist43]

This is an interesting thread. I don't own any high end rifles except for a War Trophy drilling that my dad brought home from WWII. I'm lucky to have sons and grandkids that hunt. My guns will be staying in the family. When ever I purchase a new firearm I just tell the "kids" that I've added to their inheritance. LOL

 

[Bullthrower338]

Hey Dan,
With all those millions ya got, I would think a bespoke Holland and Holland Royal would be the ticket! Lol. I have a Merkel .470 that I like pretty well. Not to bad on the shoulder or the pocketbook. It was one of those deals that I couldn't pass up. There are some great deals out there on the used market. I originally was planning on a Searcy rifle but had to take this deal. If you are seriously considering a BPE rifle I would recommend talking to @CalPappas, he would be someone I would trust to set me up with a sound double of yesteryear.
I have no doubt you will find shooting the double enjoyable up to 500 NE as long as the fit is good. Maybe one of my trips home to Montana we can meet up and you can warm mine up and see if you like the Merkel, and grab a beer or two.
Cheers,
Cody

 

[Nyati]

I believe the .470 will be the most re-sellable, in any of the well known brands, Krieghoff, Merkel, Heim.

 

[redriver]

I was in the market for a good working double a few years back and ended up with a .470 Krieghoff after looking at many
guns. Great gun! I have great custom loads made to the gun by Safari Arms. I also liked Chapuis

 

[IdaRam]

Hey Dan,
With all those millions ya got, I would think a bespoke Holland and Holland Royal would be the ticket! Lol. I have a Merkel .470 that I like pretty well. Not to bad on the shoulder or the pocketbook. It was one of those deals that I couldn't pass up. There are some great deals out there on the used market. I originally was planning on a Searcy rifle but had to take this deal. If you are seriously considering a BPE rifle I would recommend talking to @CalPappas, he would be someone I would trust to set me up with a sound double of yesteryear.
I have no doubt you will find shooting the double enjoyable up to 500 NE as long as the fit is good. Maybe one of my trips home to Montana we can meet up and you can warm mine up and see if you like the Merkel, and grab a beer or two.
Cheers,
Cody

Ha ha ha, yeah I'm never going to hear the end of that am I?! Man, all it takes is one dew-schnozzle to put a label on ya!
Sounds like you scored the right kind of deal on your Merkel. Would love to try it out! I'll take you up on that offer You provide the DR, I'll provide the food and the beer! I hope we can make it happen.

 

[tarbe]

Ha ha ha, yeah I'm never going to hear the end of that am I?! Man, all it takes is one dew-schnozzle to put a label on ya!
Sounds like you scored the right kind of deal on your Merkel. Would love to try it out! I'll take you up on that offer You provide the DR, I'll provide the food and the beer! I hope we can make it happen.

Pssst....Dan. Be careful. Cody is about as expensive to feed and water as a good horse! And that water he drinks is really expensive!!

 

[IdaRam]

Duly noted! Guess I better make sure he brings plenty of ammo if I hope to come out close to even

 

[Philip Glass]

A bunch of great advice so far! Thanks guys

Would love to hear some of your thoughts on the K-Gun @Philip Glass . The factors that are pushing you in that direction?


Have had that very thought and it is a compelling one. Also, due to lack of guns chambered in .450 3 1/4" NE on the used market I have wondered if that might also be a positive when it comes time to sell. The problem is, they are hard to find because there are very few on the market!

@Traditional Mozambique Safaris , @sierraone , @ActionBob
A bunch of great thoughts, you've given me a lot to ponder. I value your advice and opinions. Keep 'em coming if you have any more
Thank Guys!

K gun has features that many dont. One being an anti doubling feature. Every time there is a big bore shoot you hear of doubling. When on safe the hammers are not cocked until put on fire and no it's not hard to flip the switch! It fits me pretty well out of the box and price is where I might be able to afford before too long (under$16k) and a very nice looking gun.
Philip

 

[BC.Pat]

Interesting thread, but once I buy a gun its normally only found in three places afterward.
In my hands
In my safe
In my estate....

cheers
Pat

 

[Red Leg]

I think you will have a lot more luck with the 3" in terms of finding "economical" ammo, brass and dies.

I have found brass for the 3" (Hornady) as low as $32 for 20. Hornady dies were under $90 (still pricey).



And just a possible correction to a notion that the 3.25" is higher pressure than the 3"....

The 3.25" suffered some extraction issues at high temp/high pressure situations and I believe the 3" was developed to remedy the case extraction issues.

So the pressure isn't higher, per se. The impact of the pressure on the 3.25" case is more noted. Another reason to stick with the 3"? This may have been a Cordite-specific issue.

You are correct - the whole "won't extract in the heat" issue is a leftover from the cordite days. That is not a problem with modern ammunition. There may be an issue with a particular rifle's extraction, but the issue won't be ammunition behaving differently in the heat.

Living in Texas, I find the persistence of the whole heat thing fairly amusing. Was reading some guy in the last month, talking about the dangers of using some English calibers early and late in the African season for dangerous game. Yep, you guessed it, the cases may swell and jam the rifle at a critical moment. Unless the "heat" of sub-Saharan Africa is of some yet unidentified Alien origin, I challenge anyone to find a warmer shooting experience than a range in south central Texas in the summer (or Arizona, New Mexico - hell - even Kansas).

With respect to purchasing a double rifle - never think of it as an investment. Purchase the best one you can afford. Treat it like it is the only such rifle you will ever own, and should you someday decide to sell or trade it, you will likely maximize your return. In the interim, you will be using a dependable rifle that you may decide is a lot better than you originally though.

 

[Red Leg]

The K-guns are exceptional rifles and very popular with PH's as well. Never seen one that wouldn't shoot. Numerous PH's carry them including Nick Nolte, who carries one in .470, and Jamy Traut, who has a .500. It and the now defunct Blaser S2 are also the two safest rifles of their type. Until the cocker/safety is pushed forward the rifle can not be fired.

There are some deals among older English doubles. HOWEVER, for every good rifle out there, you will find three with hidden problems which will make the rifle virtually unusable or unsafe. Very few of these problems are obvious to an untrained eye, and the cost of that particular diploma is very, very expensive (I speak as a graduate cum laude!).

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

You are correct - the whole "won't extract in the heat" issue is a leftover from the cordite days. That is not a problem with modern ammunition. There may be an issue with a particular rifle's extraction, but the issue won't be ammunition behaving differently in the heat.

Living in Texas, I find the persistence of the whole heat thing fairly amusing. Was reading some guy in the last month, talking about the dangers of using some English calibers early and late in the African season for dangerous game. Yep, you guessed it, the cases may swell and jam the rifle at a critical moment. Unless the "heat" of sub-Saharan Africa is of some yet unidentified Alien origin, I challenge anyone to find a warmer shooting experience than a range in south central Texas in the summer (or Arizona, New Mexico - hell - even Kansas).

With respect to purchasing a double rifle - never think of it as an investment. Purchase the best one you can afford. Treat it like it is the only such rifle you will ever own, and should you someday decide to sell or trade it, you will likely maximize your return. In the interim, you will be using a dependable rifle that you may decide is a lot better than you originally though.

Totally agree with you, but I can give an example. 105 degrees and warming. IMR4350 (a powder I really like) used in a 7mm Mag load of mine. Decided to give neck sizing a go on the brass. Load was at or very close to max per the Nosler manual. Fired two rounds. Both required significant effort to lift the bolt. Once bolt lift occurred, the round extracted without issue.

So it can be done even with loads that are not excessive, but it does require effort. I have no doubt that the neck sized only cases were part of the issue. I returned shortly thereafter with full length resized brass and mostly the issue went away. Still a bit sticky, but I attribute that to the powder and temperature.

I will still use IMR4350 as it just works so well in a number of loads I have. But I prefer to use if I can the newer powders that have a much smaller temperature coefficient. Backing off a 1/2gr provided the load is still accurate can make a huge difference in less pressure and it's impact on the brass.

 

[tomahawker]

In the same boat awhile ago. Found a conversion 450 for 4K. Put over 100 rounds thru it, some reloads. Had it restocked lefty. Took a buff....it only got worse. Since picked up sabatti 470 for 3.5k it's a shooter, Merkel, Jeffrey 475#2. ArmyNavy 500bpe. It's ridiculous, careful what you start! The reloading of the 450 is nice. I looked and looked and still look for good buys. There out there. The market has softened up. Good luck and jump in, I don't regret any one of the doubles, ah hell any gun I've ever bought.

 

[tarbe]

You are correct - the whole "won't extract in the heat" issue is a leftover from the cordite days.

Right...the "high pressure" was relative to the old, original black powder loads for the 3.25".

The 3" was the solution.

 

[tarbe]

Totally agree with you, but I can give an example. 105 degrees and warming. IMR4350 (a powder I really like) used in a 7mm Mag load of mine. Decided to give neck sizing a go on the brass. Load was at or very close to max per the Nosler manual. Fired two rounds. Both required significant effort to lift the bolt. Once bolt lift occurred, the round extracted without issue.

I always do my level best to perform my load development at or near the temps I intend to use the load at.

For my May 2015 hunt in the EC, I did my load development mostly in the "dead of winter" in Houston. Worked out pretty well...most of my work here was in 50 to 70 degree weather and that was what we had in the EC.

As you mention, there are powders available these days that are much less impacted by the temp changes.

But IMR 4350 and 4831 were the first two rifle powders I started working with back in the mid-70s and I still have a soft spot for them!

 

[Bullthrower338]

The K-guns are exceptional rifles and very popular with PH's as well. Never seen one that wouldn't shoot. Numerous PH's carry them including Nick Nolte, who carries one in .470, and Jamy Traut, who has a .500. It and the now defunct Blaser S2 are also the two safest rifles of their type. Until the cocker/safety is pushed forward the rifle can not be fired.

There are some deals among older English doubles. HOWEVER, for every good rifle out there, you will find three with hidden problems which will make the rifle virtually unusable or unsafe. Very few of these problems are obvious to an untrained eye, and the cost of that particular diploma is very, very expensive (I speak as a graduate cum laude!).

I thought I knew a fair amount about single action army colts once, turns out I was quite wrong and earned my degree as well!

 

[IdaRam]

With respect to purchasing a double rifle - never think of it as an investment. Purchase the best one you can afford. Treat it like it is the only such rifle you will ever own, and should you someday decide to sell or trade it, you will likely maximize your return. In the interim, you will be using a dependable rifle that you may decide is a lot better than you originally though.

There are some deals among older English doubles. HOWEVER, for every good rifle out there, you will find three with hidden problems which will make the rifle virtually unusable or unsafe. Very few of these problems are obvious to an untrained eye, and the cost of that particular diploma is very, very expensive (I speak as a graduate cum laude!).

@Red Leg thank you for the solid advice. Much appreciated.

 

[Slider]

As of late The 500 Nitro has a higher re-seller value than a 470 Nitro. I have a 500 Nitro. If I was going to purchase a Double rifle and planned on keeping it forever I would purchase a 450/400 Nitro.

 

[IdaRam]

As of late The 500 Nitro has a higher re-seller value than a 470 Nitro. I have a 500 Nitro. If I was going to purchase a Double rifle and planned on keeping it forever I would purchase a 450/400 Nitro.

Thank you @Slider . I’m still dreamin’! 450/400 is high on the list.
Who is the manufacturer of your .500 NE? How do you like it?

 

[1dirthawker]

idaram,

i think the most "common" calibers are 450-400 3", and 470 nitro express. both are popular for different reasons. the 450-400, lighter and easier on recoil. components cost less and guns cost the same or slightly less in the same rifle.

470 nitro is more of everything. recoil, cost, power, etc. heavier too. i guess part of it is what you want in a rifle, absolute power or ease of shooting.

there is a guy that tests bullets in australia, dave something or other. he tests bullets for woodleigh. he has shot some 10,000 buffalo, his numbers. he settled on a 450-400 as a nice combination of power, rifle weight and shoot ability. is he right? not necessarily, but he is a pretty good reference point!

some black powder express guns are pretty powerful as well, my 577/500 shoots a 440gr bullet around 1900 w/ nitro for black loads. and one hole at 25 yards. sooooo, kinda depends on what you want/are looking for.

enjoy your search.