More problems with the Germans and held three hours for not having proper permit

[Mark Urbanczyk]

We just came back from SA and flew through Munich. Bags were checked right through from Winnipeg and there was no problem with rifles or ammo, until Canada customs on the way home.

 

[Foxi]

Key lesson to be learned "NOT fly through Europe!"

Sorry,thats not true.
I was flying since decades with my gun +ammo round Europe + the rest of the world .
Always starting from my hometown Munich.
Never got a problem.Never.
(Expetional my gun case didn't come back in the same airplane from Africa).
The officials was always very polite,equal Munich or Lusaka.
But when a permit is necerssary and you don't have it..................
Foxi

 

[Spooksar]

I'm with Brickburn I fly Air Canada to London then South African air to Joburg without any problem. I've done Air Canada and Lufthansa to Frankfurt then South African Air to Joburg with out a problem,till last year. But after last year I will not fly on a Lufthansa ticket ever again.

 

[Foxi]

I'm with Brickburn I fly Air Canada to London then South African air to Joburg without any problem. I've done Air Canada and Lufthansa to Frankfurt then South African Air to Joburg with out a problem,till last year. But after last year I will not fly on a Lufthansa ticket ever again.

Once Lufthansa was the pride of German oeconomy.
Under the pressure of the lowcost-carrier, Lufthansa service is going to be lousy.
I can understand you.
Foxi

 

[sierraone]

I have flown through Germany many times without guns. The problem with Lufthansa IMO is they go on strike far too much. Last November, they went on strike 3 days before my flight to the U.S., I went through hell in Frankfurt and again in London before finally getting to Atlanta. I realize that any airline can go on strike, but Lufthansa seems to be the industry leader in strike actions. I can only imagine had I been traveling with guns under those circumstances, the guns would probably still be missing. I agree low cost carriers create problems for the majors, but that's the nature of the free market. I have never flown on a Spirit Airlines (U.S.'s primary low cost carrier) plane and never will unless there is no other choice. But they continually make money every year, so go figure!

 

[Foxi]

In 2015 or 14 the Lufthansa pilots was on strike 8 times a year !!!!!!!
They fought to hold their fat contracts.
In the German working culture its uncommon to go on strike .
Especially these group with a high income.

We wished this airline and their pilots to hell in that times.
Times are changing and not going better.
Regards

 

[Spooksar]

My problem with Lufthansa is that they wouldn't give me boarding passes from Frankfurt to Joburg. Once in Frankfurt I had to go through immigration and go to the South Africa desk, this was at 8:00 AM and the desk was closed till 5:00, luckily I found a kiosk that worked. On the way back they wouldn't allow South African Air to give me a boarding pass beyond Joburg, we had about an hour to go to the Lufthansa desk and catch the plane. Just made the gate about 2 minutes before it closed. With Air Canada they give boarding passes all the way through. It's supposed to be Star Alliance you would think they would do it. The Lufthansa people in Frankfurt weren't any help at all, basically said it's your problem

 

[Nosler guy]

My problem with Lufthansa is that they wouldn't give me boarding passes from Frankfurt to Joburg. Once in Frankfurt I had to go through immigration and go to the South Africa desk, this was at 8:00 AM and the desk was closed till 5:00, luckily I found a kiosk that worked. On the way back they wouldn't allow South African Air to give me a boarding pass beyond Joburg, we had about an hour to go to the Lufthansa desk and catch the plane. Just made the gate about 2 minutes before it closed. With Air Canada they give boarding passes all the way through. It's supposed to be Star Alliance you would think they would do it. The Lufthansa people in Frankfurt weren't any help at all, basically said it's your problem

We ran into lots of problems with Lufthansa too - you check it out as careful as you can - they tell you one thing and all of a sudden half way through your travels, something different is happening - you don't get the same answers from different personal - a few years back we had a ship wreck with a rifle in Frankfurt - the firearm was suppossed to be in transit right through to Windhoek - ended up coming out in Frankfurt - took it to German customs, explained what happened - no problem - until we went to recheck/board, one obnoxious little police officer got his nose out of joint and things went south from there. (We had all the documentation filled out - had checked and were going to use a firearms travel outfit, they looked at what I had and said I was good to go, they really couldn't help me and didn't really need the declaration to import into Germany, I had it filled out, just didn't send it in to get the stamp/approved after that). All the airlines people and the rest of the police force were on side and could see what had happened, we all tried to reason with him but he wouldn't have any of it (language barrier didn't help - he only spoke German). Ended up missing flight, being held overnight, charged for illegally importing a firearm, even though I had documents. When the shift changed, the new guys were real good, they helped me get a ticket back to Canada, put me and the rifle on the plane, tripped over themselves apologizing and needless to say we wouldn't be going back through Germany. (makes it a pain because the best/cheapest flights from here go through Frankfurt) Ended up losing the rest of the airfare on a round trip, buying an expensive one way ticket home, bail money ($1000 US), missed the safari (outfitter was excellent - carried deposit forward) - buddy ended up going the hunt on his own, he is still a bit sour about that. In hindsight, we should have left the rifle sitting in German customs and picked it up on the way home.

Talked to another guy that the same thing happened to - the Officer asked what the problem was - short explanation - the officer said "I see - this rifle is here and it needs to be there" - picked up the gun, took it to the other side of the luggage screening and told the guy to have a good hunt...

Everytime we have travelled with firearms we have run into snags, mostly where individual airline personal want to do something different than what you have been told, or something different from what their company policy from websites states. Last year it was a lady with British Airways, she insisted our Ammo needed to be a separate checked bag (even though the website and 6 other employees were telling her different), because we were short on time, I gave in, let her have her way, and it cost me a bunch extra, because all of a sudden I had three bags and 1 was oversized. It was almost comical, because all the other British Airways people were standing there apologizing and trying to be helpful and this other one was on her own little mission. We left our unused ammo in Africa to avoid hassles on the way home, (took it up with the airline when we got back, all I got was an apology) So for us it has just been the wrong person at the wrong time, for the most part the companies and 99% of the employees have been really good. Always frustrating and makes it hard to relax while travelling with firearms or ammunition...

 

[Stick]

There's always one person who doesn't get the word.

 

[David Savaglia]

I'm with Brickburn I fly Air Canada to London then South African air to Joburg without any problem. I've done Air Canada and Lufthansa to Frankfurt then South African Air to Joburg with out a problem,till last year. But after last year I will not fly on a Lufthansa ticket ever again.

What was the problem with Lufthansa if you don't mind me asking?

 

[markferrigno]

I flew through Berlin last Sep then drove to Poland with my rifle and two boxes of ammo. No hassle. You just need to contact German customs (a few months before your flight) they have an English language website. They will put you in touch with the local Police Authorities who can issue you a weapons permit. If you have a weapons permit you are allowed to have ammo (rifle ammo only) The one for Berlin cost about 8 Euros and they mailed the original to my house in the states. Permit for Poland was easy as well, called the local consulate, they sent me a form, sent it back with a copy of my passport and letter from the guide (and $50 USD) an they mailed me a permit a week later.

The airlines, AA an Air Berlin never gave me any grief (I contacted them in advance and told them I was traveling with a gun/ammo) and once I arrived in Berlin the airport Police checked my permit against the SN on my rifle and I was on my way. When I departed Berlin, same. They take you off to the side, check your permit and SN and you are on your way. Air Berlin even checked in my rifle for free, unexpected surprise.

I just moved back from Germany last year after living there for 5 years and I had a German Jagdschein (hunting license) It is illegal to posses Ammo in Germany with a "need" So you must have a hunting or sport shooting license. I assume this why the gentlemen was held in Munich. If you have a temp. import permit for a rifle this allows you to have ammo

 

[Bert the Turtle]

Germans have a culture of following the rules. If you follow the rules, there will be no problems.

Despite the fact that I don't speak German, I find it a lot easier to deal with the German airport people than with the American people. In Germany, have your paperwork in order, talk to the person at the counter, get a few stamps here or there on your papers and its good day, have a nice flight. As far as I can tell, the American personnel don't know the rules, don't care to learn the rules, ignore the rules if you show up with a copy of the rules, and are just generally a disorganized, arbitrary, unpredictable pain in the ass.

As a perfect example, I got an email today from my travel agent: "the form attached and take it with you, this is just in case the check in agent asks to see the permit before departure." There is no requirement for the form, there is no reason for the form, but (and I have experienced this before) if the check-in girl decides she needs to see something or just simply doesn't know what to do, it is a two hour goat rope of chasing down managers and trying desperately not to lose your temper while standing there with a copy of the applicable regulations and airline policies in your hand.

I'm as American as they come, but when it comes to transiting airports, give me German predictability any day. Follow the rules, get the paperwork in order, and there are no problems. In Africa, at least you can bribe your way out of most situations (or even better get a meet and greet to handle the bribes ahead of time). In the States, you've got African competence with German strictness. To me that is the losing combination.

 

[Rick Cox]

I had zero issues going through Amsterdam after booking with Lori Spears @Travel Express.

 

[Rick Cox]

Germans have a culture of following the rules. If you follow the rules, there will be no problems.

Despite the fact that I don't speak German, I find it a lot easier to deal with the German airport people than with the American people. In Germany, have your paperwork in order, talk to the person at the counter, get a few stamps here or there on your papers and its good day, have a nice flight. As far as I can tell, the American personnel don't know the rules, don't care to learn the rules, ignore the rules if you show up with a copy of the rules, and are just generally a disorganized, arbitrary, unpredictable pain in the ass.

As a perfect example, I got an email today from my travel agent: "the form attached and take it with you, this is just in case the check in agent asks to see the permit before departure." There is no requirement for the form, there is no reason for the form, but (and I have experienced this before) if the check-in girl decides she needs to see something or just simply doesn't know what to do, it is a two hour goat rope of chasing down managers and trying desperately not to lose your temper while standing there with a copy of the applicable regulations and airline policies in your hand.

I'm as American as they come, but when it comes to transiting airports, give me German predictability any day. Follow the rules, get the paperwork in order, and there are no problems. In Africa, at least you can bribe your way out of most situations (or even better get a meet and greet to handle the bribes ahead of time). In the States, you've got African competence with German strictness. To me that is the losing combination.

You my friend, are a funny guy!

 

[Spooksar]

What was the problem with Lufthansa if you don't mind me asking?

First off they would not allow other Star Alliance members to print boarding passes all the way through, both coming and going. Had a hour to get off the plane from Windhoek go through immigration get boarding passes and catch the plane. Lost my and my sons rifles going down and lost luggage coming home. Did the trip this year using Air Canada and SAA same route not a hitch

 

[David Savaglia]

Has anyone flown Lufthansa from Chicago to Frankfurt then to joberg??? It's a United flight but operated by Lufthansa???

 

[David Savaglia]

Absolutely no questions, problems-nothing, when transiting Frankfurt and Munich with rifles and ammo in April.

Flew Lufthansa and SAA, tickets ordered online and guns added by SAA by phone.

Did you come from United States?

 

[GuttormG]

No

 

[David Savaglia]

Has anyone flown through Madrid enroute to Johannesburg???

 

[sestoppelman]

I have had my issues flying with guns but nothing like some of the above!! Yikes!! Most trouble I have had recently was departing Windhoek, got into a snarl with the officious lady at the departure gate about the stupid customs forms. I could have avoided it easily enough but my mouth kept going after my brain said shut the hell up. We avoided arrest anyway, lol. I should probably change my name if I go again....