More 4457 Drama

[RogerHeintzman]

Have used Afton in the past with Mr X. Scan and email Documents, no notary as a true copy of 4457, permit always issued within seven days. No pain, no sweat no expensive ups or slow mail.....just st scan and e mail. What could be easier? Three times with Afton and Mr X and smoooooth SAPS experience,

I have yet to be asked for notarized copy. Also used Afton Guest House, now Afton Safari Lodge.

 

[sestoppelman]

I always list optics but have NEVER been asked about stuff that wasn't listed like cameras, watches stuff like that. Never had a CBP guy look at the sn of a scope coming in. I really don't think they care much about stuff that's obviously yours like a scope bolted to a rifle!. Often they barely look at the rifle. I have had agents just ask if the guns number and the paper will match, say yes and off you go. They know if you are trying to sneak something in.

 

[JimP]

When I had my 4457's done I had listed my scope that is on the rifle. To see the serial number which is on the bottom of the scope I just popped the hinged floor plate open and opened the bolt. Then using a flashlight you can see the serial number on the scope quite clearly.

As for being checked, I have never had any of my optics checked. Scopes, cameras, rangefinders, and what ever else I have on a separate 4457.

 

[sestoppelman]

Did have to show my 4457 to the ATL CBP guys this trip to compare to my rifles, but never was asked about the AES system number that one is still supposed to have despite the systems issues. The CBP guys in ATL are not such jerks like the NY guys are.

 

[Bwana Bob]

I get you. that's too bad, extra grief. The last time I went we flew Jet Blue domestic which does not transfer guns to other airlines, so we had to do a big PITA transfer in NY, Not fun! We were going to SA anyway and not onward so had to do the SAPS thing but I had the pre approval papers waiting for me and Afton made it all relatively painless. Going Delta this trip domestic and to SA so should have no issues with gun transfers. Famous last words....

So I am flying Jet Blue from Dulles to JFK and continuing on to J-burg via SAA. Am I correct in you saying Jet Blue will not check my bags through to Namibia.

 

[Red Leg]

Did have to show my 4457 to the ATL CBP guys this trip to compare to my rifles, but never was asked about the AES system number that one is still supposed to have despite the systems issues. The CBP guys in ATL are not such jerks like the NY guys are.

I am not aware of the AES number number ever actually being made a requirement.

 

[sestoppelman]

So I am flying Jet Blue from Dulles to JFK and continuing on to J-burg via SAA. Am I correct in you saying Jet Blue will not check my bags through to Namibia.

Not sure in your case. I only know they would not transfer my rifles to SAA in NY. I believe you will have to transfer them in NY, but not sure. Sorry for that, its a real PITA.

 

[sestoppelman]

I am not aware of the AES number number ever actually being made a requirement.

According to the CBP site it "must" be done, even though not being enforced. No agents even mentioned it to me at all and I think its totally on the back burner, however that could change at any time. I wont have to worry about for a few years if ever.

 

[Bwana Bob]

Thanks for the info. Looks like I will be making a call to Jet Blue. At least I have 3 plus hours at JFK to deal with it

 

[Bwana Bob]

Everything else aside, I'm heading to Namibia in October to hunt with Kowas. Can't wait. This will be my second trip to Kowas. After my first trip, I found no reason to go anywhere else.

 

[Bwana Bob]

Not sure in your case. I only know they would not transfer my rifles to SAA in NY. I believe you will have to transfer them in NY, but not sure. Sorry for that, its a real PITA.

If it's not too much trouble, can you explain the process you had to go through in NY to transfer your rifle. Was the checked bag with your ammo treated the same as your rifle. Thanks in advance.

 

[sestoppelman]

Its hard to describe, but it was a PITA. Had to drag it all over the place on a cart to change terminals, had to have Port cops come and open it, then be escorted back to the oversize baggage area. Much of this could have been avoided it the airport personal in general were not so ignorant and incompetent, as I got the Royal runaround from several morons that were clueless on procedure. In and out of lines, then told, wrong line, go there, do this, do that. In short it was stressful nightmare and I wont ever fly Jet Blue again with guns or anything else for that matter. They can suck it! No one cared about my ammo, just asked where it was. Same thing on this trip just finished. Was asked about my ammo several times, no one wanted to see it, and it made it over and back in my main bag, no issues.

 

[Bwana Bob]

Its hard to describe, but it was a PITA. Had to drag it all over the place on a cart to change terminals, had to have Port cops come and open it, then be escorted back to the oversize baggage area. Much of this could have been avoided it the airport personal in general were not so ignorant and incompetent, as I got the Royal runaround from several morons that were clueless on procedure. In and out of lines, then told, wrong line, go there, do this, do that. In short it was stressful nightmare and I wont ever fly Jet Blue again with guns or anything else for that matter. They can suck it! No one cared about my ammo, just asked where it was. Same thing on this trip just finished. Was asked about my ammo several times, no one wanted to see it, and it made it over and back in my main bag, no issues.

Many thanks for the heads up. Sounds like I made a mistake using Jet Blue to get me from Dulles to JFK. Since I have a month and a half till I leave, maybe I will try to book a different flight. Good hunting

 

[JimP]

Many thanks for the heads up. Sounds like I made a mistake using Jet Blue to get me from Dulles to JFK. Since I have a month and a half till I leave, maybe I will try to book a different flight. Good hunting

Who are you flying with out of JFK? If it is South African Airlines they also have flights out of Dulles or at least they did when I came home in 2015

Also when I was looking at flights myself for my trip over to SA I looked at a package deal with Jet Blue and SAA and was glad that I enlisted Lori's help at Travel Express with my air travel. She got me flights just as cheap or a little bit cheaper than what I could of done myself and she then caught a problem that came up on my return flight through Dulles. Jet Blue is not a firearm friendly airline.

http://www.travelexpressagency.com/

 

[Philip Glass]

I had to do the same thing some time back... Became a real PITA as I went to Wells Fargo as I have some accounts there and it was the most convenient.. The guy who was supposed to "help" got all paranoid about not knowing what it was, bla, bla, bla... One of those #@%^ "can't do" type people... had to go to another branch office where the older lady did it with no problem

Some people don't understand there is no Endorsement line on a 4457. Just stamp and sign the thing! It is a pain but I've done it many times going through RSA. Think I'll find another route of travel to Namibia next time.
Philip

 

[Philip Glass]

That may be the easiest solution.

Go on the hunt of a lifetime with a borrowed gun? No Way Man! It's not that hard.
Philip

 

[Philip Glass]

Many thanks for the heads up. Sounds like I made a mistake using Jet Blue to get me from Dulles to JFK. Since I have a month and a half till I leave, maybe I will try to book a different flight. Good hunting

Bob which travel agent did you use? Why would you fly to JFK to take a SAA flight when there is one fromDulles daily? Sorry sir but you have a mess on your hands with Jet Blue and going to JFK. I hope you get it worked out.
Regards,
Philip

 

[Bert the Turtle]

I list everything I can on a 4457. Not that I've had the serial number checked on my 30 year old watch but the more paperwork I have in my binder the less trouble I have at customs.

The biggest hassle I've had is that one of the guys at our customs port is kind of passive aggressive and doesn't want to fill out 4457 forms. He always asks if stuff has ever been listed before. He correctly explains that the form never expires. He is correct as far as US customs is concerned. But the Africans treat it as a gun permit not a customs form and they think it expires. It always takes a few minutes to convince him to fill out another one. Probably easiest just to say it hasn't been filled out before.

My personal rule is don't take longer avoiding work than it take so do the actual work. He apparently sees it differently but it's easier to relax and do it his way than it is to argue over it.

 

[ActionBob]

My personal rule is don't take longer avoiding work than it take so do the actual work. He apparently sees it differently

You must not be a bureaucrat or work for the government.....

 

[sestoppelman]

UPS charged me $127.00 to send paperwork to SA! If costs keep adding up like this, I'll have to not go back so soon. The beaurocracy just keeps self perpetuating!

A couple of trips ago, I sent my stuff to Afton via USPS overseas priority or whatever they call it. Cost was about $40 if I recall. Took a week to get there though.