Moral dilemma - to rebarrel an old custom, or sell intact?

[Captain Jack]

Hello friends,

Some of you may remember that I acquired (on behalf of my dad) a beautiful Dale Goens custom pre-64 in .375 Improved sometime last year. (See photos below). Well, he's tired of messing with the one-off caliber, fire forming brass, etc. etc., and even though the rifle is quite a shooter, he has lost interest and is selling it. I personally have no use for the hassle of loading for a .375 Improved, given that I have a Kimber .375 H&H that I like very much. If it were chambered in the standard .375, it would not be for sale.

So, the question I pose to you is this: is it wrong to rebarrel such a fine vintage rifle in .404 Jeffery? I am thinking of having a GOOD riflesmith do just that, bed the stock, and generally make it into a fine express-style buffalo rifle to take on future buffalo adventures. It's worth noting that the current barrel is quite stout for a .375, so I don't anticipate a need to alter the stock for a larger diameter barrel. Another note is that it has clearly been on some adventures in its time, with some stock and bluing wear commensurate with being cared for and hunted, so it's not a museum piece.

The other option is to simply sell it on this forum and find another rifle to cannibalize.

What say the minds on here?

 

[HuntingGold]

I'd rebarrel as desired and cherish memories past and plan to make more in the future

 

[BJH65]

Why not just keep it? I assume this is the 375 H&H Ackley Improved version with 40 degree shoulder. You can shoot regular 375 H&H ammo in it with perhaps slight loss in velocity. Just keep it and shoot regular 375 H&H if you don’t desire to reload. All the Ackley Improved cartridges can shoot the regular parent cartridges.

 

[franzfmdavis]

Why not just keep it? I assume this is the 375 H&H Ackley Improved version with 40 degree shoulder. You can shoot regular 375 H&H ammo in it with perhaps slight loss in velocity. Just keep it and shoot regular 375 H&H if you don’t desire to reload. All the Ackley Improved cartridges can shoot the regular parent cartridges.

I second this suggestion.

 

[Surgeon1]

If it is a shooter, keep it and just shoot factory 375, keep the fire formed brass so when you get
the desire to reload it ur all set. I've had several Dale Goings rifles and all are very accurate and well done!

 

[Captain Jack]

Well, to give you guys the short version, we haven't had good luck with fire forming brass in it, so as it is now, the brass is basically useless after the first firing. I'm not really interested in something that eats expensive brass, since I'm not filthy rich and I like to shoot my rifles - especially the bigger calibers! Besides, I have had enough of dealing with/loading for belted magnums in general.

I also don't really need another .375, and I don't care for the configuration on this one, what with its 25" heavy barrel. A .404 is different enough that it broadens my horizons a bit, and dimensionally close enough to the .375 Improved that it shouldn't require a ton of work to make the gun reliable. It would definitely be the least expensive way for me to get into a nice custom .404.

 

[cash_tx]

Well, to give you guys the short version, we haven't had good luck with fire forming brass in it, so as it is now, the brass is basically useless after the first firing. I'm not really interested in something that eats expensive brass, since I'm not filthy rich and I like to shoot my rifles - especially the bigger calibers! Besides, I have had enough of dealing with/loading for belted magnums in general.

I also don't really need another .375, and I don't care for the configuration on this one, what with its 25" heavy barrel. A .404 is different enough that it broadens my horizons a bit, and dimensionally close enough to the .375 Improved that it shouldn't require a ton of work to make the gun reliable. It would definitely be the least expensive way for me to get into a nice custom .404.

I don't think you would be affecting any collector or market value on what is already a one-off custom rifle by rebarreling it to 404 Jeffrey; not like it would be if you rebarreled an original pre-64 Model 70 Winchester or Dakota. I say if you like the rest of the rifle, and have a good gunsmith that you're willing to hire for the job, go for it. I imagine you could resell the barrel and the once-fired brass for X(?) amount of money as well.

 

[gcbailey]

That's a very handsome rifle. I wouldn't have any qualms about rebarreling it. For one, it will stay in your family. Second, you will continue to get use and enjoyment out of the rifle. Third, you may be able to keep the original barrel should you change your mind again.

 

[Justbryan]

I would take it to a gunsmith and let them set the barrel back and rechamber it for a standard 375 H&H. You will lose a little barrel length cleaning up the chamber but not much.

 

[NDWoods]

Get it done and enjoy your new beautiful 404.

You already said you do not want another 375 so you either sell it or rebarrel. Can you get an equal rifle in 404 for what you would sell this one for? I doubt it, so that is why I vote rebarrel.

 

[Wyfox]

Have a smith turn a barrel to the same contour and chamber it in what you want. Save the old barrel and you can re-install it to keep it original. I would do 416 rem rather than 404 to keep the feed rails from being altered, it's the easy button.

 

[Doug3006]

I'd rebarrel as desired and cherish memories past and plan to make more in the future

What he said!

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I’d find a good pre 64 375 barrel and put on it. I guess I don’t get the 404 love others do.

 

[Wildwillalaska]

I'd make it what you wanted. No see no moral dilemma in making your rifle what you want it to be. Seems it would make a great 404 express rifle if that's something you'd like. It has a fine looking stock, and great action, all of the options listed seem like fine ideas, all within the scope of fine morals. If you don't love the gun, make it into one you will, or sell it. If its not fire forming brass well, chances are whomever buys it would have to go through the same scenario of rechambering it anyway.

 

[wvfred]

If you want something bigger a 458 Lott would be an easy conversion.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I don't think it's going to be as easy as just slapping another barrel on it. 375 is significantly narrower cartridge and longer than 404J. You will have plenty of metal to work with for reshaping the feeding rails but the magazine may be (likely) too narrow. This conversion would almost certainly require acquiring new bottom metal or opening up existing bottom metal (the former is more desirable). I used 416 Rem Mag bottom metal for my 404J build on 98 Mauser and it worked perfectly. It was slightly too narrow in shoulder area per Paul Mauser's cosine 30° formula but not a problem. However, I would be surprised if 375 bottom metal will similarly work. The difference in case dimensions 375 vs 404 Jeffery is much more than "slight." Once the rails are opened up to line up thicker 404 case with chamber of new barrel, the narrow 375 magazine underneath won't allow the rails to keep the cartridges held in place till bolt face engaged ... i.e. they will pop loose prematurely. Your 375 bottom metal will also have a longer magazine than the 404 bottom metal. Some filling would be required in the stock on one or both ends of the 404 bottom metal magazine. Hopefully the hinged floorplate of new bottom metal would cover that up. A good gunsmith MIGHT be able to open up the sides of the 375 magazine box, add a filler to one end of the inside of box, and modify/replace the follower, but it wouldn't be cheap! That way no major modification of stock would be needed (filling around the ends of box). I would go with buying new bottom metal.

I paid just over $400 for my bottom metal (in the white and it required polishing out machining marks), just over $400 for the barrel, $600 to cut, crown, ream, thread, and install the barrel. I then paid $150 Canadian to have the barrel, receiver, bottom metal, and bolt shroud blued. If you do decide to rebarrel, caliper the stock's barrel trough and that will give you an idea what profile to order.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

404 conversion from 375 H&H MIGHT also require opening the bolt face but that's not a big deal. I paid a local machinist ~$75 US to open up my 98 Mauser bolt face from 8mm to 404J.

 

[RedTag]

I’ve been wanting to get an old Winchester M70 with a misbehaving or worn out .375 H&H barrel to rebarrel to .358 STA, just because… I would give that a try!

 

[Captain Jack]

404 conversion from 375 H&H MIGHT also require opening the bolt face but that's not a big deal. I paid a local machinist ~$75 US to open up my 98 Mauser bolt face from 8mm to 404J.

All fair points sir. It is worth noting that the rifle has already been altered to feed the Ackley variant of the 375, which is much closer to 404 dimensions than the standard H&H case. I will have to check the dimensions on the magazine box, but I had considered the feeding issues as well. The case width at the shoulder on the 375 AI is around .500", which is .03" narrower than the 404 but well forward at 2.475" from the case head on the former vs 2" on the latter. I think they're dimensionally similar enough that the alterations should be minimal, but I need to have a chat with my smith. I defer to him in these things. This rifle already has Blackburn bottom metal to accommodate the larger Ackley cartridge, which it feeds handily.

At any rate, I'm leaning towards doing the conversion, even if it's more of a headache than I'm anticipating... which is usually the case.

 

[Captain Jack]

Appreciate all the input from you folks. I'm off to South Africa tomorrow with my Kimber 375 in hand, so this project will be on the back burner for a bit.