Monomental and lead bullets compared

[Shootist43]

Samu, an interesting study for sure. Just the same I think I'll be staying with jacketed lead bullets. Was there any attempt to determine the reason for the aberration of one of the Norma Oryx bullets? When numbers are so significantly different from the "norm / avg." there is generally a reason.

 

[samu]

Samu, an interesting study for sure. Just the same I think I'll be staying with jacketed lead bullets. Was there any attempt to determine the reason for the aberration of one of the Norma Oryx bullets? When numbers are so significantly different from the "norm / avg." there is generally a reason.

There wasn't which is a shame. I have suspicion there was inconsistency in the soap block because the bullet exited at 450m/s but in the photo it has expanded identically compared to other two Oryxes.
I'd be happy to shoot eg. a moose with either of 7.8g coppers in ideal situation with clear shot and time to aim perfectly behind front leg for double lung/high heart shot. Hence next fall I'll be using 9.3x62. Following a boar/bear cornered by dogs in a bush with 6.5.. no thanks.

 

[BenKK]

In reply to momometal/ homogeneous bullets woodleigh in Australia make a bullet out of lathe turned brass called the hydrostatic shock. It is light for caliber but even in the humble 30/30 Winchester will almost punch completely thru one of our Australian water buffalo.

The 150 grain Hydro will punch completely through an old cow buffalo at eighty metres on a side-on lung-shot with an initial muzzle velocity of 2000fps, out of a Winchester 1894.

 

[BenKK]

Having shot hundreds of buffalo with all manner of bullets and projectiles, I can honestly say that the conventional softs and solids and the newer Hydros can all devastate in mere seconds if placed correctly. In some instances the soft is superior in performance, while in other instances the solid or Hydro is due to better penetration. On adrenaline-charged animals the soft can be effective sooner than the Hydro.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

Samu,

Is the performance of the 6.5mm 156 grain Mega projectile in this test applicable to Lapua Mega bullets across the board in other calibers compared to these competitor bullets in other calibers? I'm primarily interested relative to the 9.3mm 285 grain Mega and (discontinued) 7mm 170 grain Mega projectiles.

@bruce moulds, how do you explain the tested actual performance velocity of the Norma factory ammo tested exceeding Norma's published velocity for that ammo? Conspiracy / collusion, bribery, selective errors only experienced when the Norma factory ammo was being tested, ????

For reference,

zorg,
we come et this from different directions.
having chrono'd many factory rounds over the years, the difference between fact and fiction has become obvious.
also, getting speeds from reloads is interesting.
bruce.

https://www.africahunting.com/threads/norma-tipstrike™.53296/page-2

 

[samu]

Samu,

Is the performance of the 6.5mm 156 grain Mega projectile in this test applicable to Lapua Mega bullets across the board in other calibers compared to these competitor bullets in other calibers? I'm primarily interested relative to the 9.3mm 285 grain Mega and (discontinued) 7mm 170 grain Mega projectiles.

I can't give straight answer to the question. Anyone I know use either Oryx or Naturalis in 9.3x62, as it happens Naturalis is cheapest lead free factory ammo for 9.3x62 here. In Finland Lapua Mega and Sako Hammerhead are all time favourites only because they're cheapest 308 moose legal ammo and well available everywhere. Mostly I see them used by hunters who refuse to acknowledge any technological development since WWII and consider safety belts in cars as a conspiracy. This seems to go hand in hand with general attitude to life rather than age. I've myself carved buckets of meat to trash after work of these bullets. Both are blatantly advertised as "bonded" which in their case means mechanical conncetion of core and jacket.

Anyone who has paid any attention to differences in bullet design recommends either chemically bonded lead or monometallic bullets for edible game. Handloaders seem to favor light for caliber TTSX and I'm inclined to believe they have most expertice behind that choise. I have seen few cases of equally good results with less known Nosler E-Tip. One remarkable case for Naturalis was one I took part in gutting and skinning. Frontal chest shot with 30-06, resulting huge tear in right lung, right kidney shattered and bullet lodged under skin in rear leg. Naturalis is obviously designed for terminal performance at close range, which makes sense considering usual shooting distances.

As reference to the swedish test. Lapua uses generally riddiculously long test barrels for any cartridges. 740mm for 6.5x55 Mega, 600mm for 6.5x55 Naturalis, 600mm for 9.3x62 and 660mm for .308Win. I have never seen anyone hunt with such barrels. Generally Norma performs closer to advertised velocities but I don't have a chrono to confirm. Lapua's core competency is in the precision shooting and the performance of Scenar bullets is spectacular but honestly their practices about hunting ammo has caused me to prefer other brands. It's known barrels at each end of diameter tolerance can have 200fps difference in MV with same cartridge. Still in my opinion, when company makes hunting ammo they should provide realistic data.

Notably 6.5mm Naturalis was created to conform with law that required 9g bullet for shooting moose in Finland but it was unable to reach required kinetic energy without hand loading way above CIP pressures. In practice it is a straight, blunt ended rod with ballistic coefficent of an armchair. Change in legistlation was proposed to lower the bullet weight for moose and bear to 7.5g and KE of 2000J at 100m. Lapua pulled some strings and the law was passed this week with limit of 1900J so they can avoid improving the product itself. On paper 6.5x55 Naturalis is now acceptable for big game but apparently in reality it is not although at usual close distances the bullet itself has decent terminal performance.

 

[Shootist43]

Samu, I don't think I'd take a 6.5 after a cornered bear either. I have taken a number of hogs / boars though, all with single shots. The elephant in the room may be that I only shoot hogs broadside and when I can place the bullet about 2" behind and below the ear, thereby breaking its spine. In my 35 Whelen (which is very similar to your 9.3 x 62) I use a 225 Gr Barnes TSX. Performance has been more than satisfactory if not stellar. Good Hunting!!

 

[samu]

Samu, I don't think I'd take a 6.5 after a cornered bear either. I have taken a number of hogs / boars though, all with single shots. The elephant in the room may be that I only shoot hogs broadside and when I can place the bullet about 2" behind and below the ear, thereby breaking its spine. In my 35 Whelen (which is very similar to your 9.3 x 62) I use a 225 Gr Barnes TSX. Performance has been more than satisfactory if not stellar. Good Hunting!!

I have yet to hunt hogs but the sightings have become annual thing where I hunt so it's just matter of time I stalk up to my dog (in avatar) barking, thinking it will be a moose, and meet a pissed off hog in a bush.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

Samu,
600mm is a common hunting rifle barrel length in the USA. My hunting rifles are a mix of 26 inches ( ~650 mm), 24 inches / 600 mm, 22 inches / 560 mm, and 20 inches / 410mm. I purchased some vintage Lapua factory 7X57mm ammunition loaded with the 170 grain Mega bullet, most 7X57mm factory ammunition for sale in the USA is loaded well below the potential for that cartridge fue to safety / liability concerns with older rifles. My plans were to use that Lapua ammunition for boar / feral hog hunting (no dogs involved). I have no plans to ever hunt moose, dogs or no dogs. Reviews I had found indicated good performance on medium game such as boar and deer with the 7X75mm Lapua factory ammunition loaded with the 170 grain Mega bullet. That's why I asked, when I read your comment that everyone knows the 6.5mm Lapua bullet has poor performance and that was also documrnted in the study results. I do not plan to use Lapua 7X57mm 170 grain Mega bullet ammunition to hunt moose.

Most of the hunting ammunition I've purchased is loaded with chemically bonded bullets such as Nosler Accubond, Norma Oryx, Geco Plus) but bullets with a mechanical lock like Hornady Interlock and SST as examples are popular in the US for hunting small znd medium game - similar in design to the Norma Tipstrike.

Lapua factory 9.3X64mm ammunition loaded with the 285 grain Mega bullet us available in the USA, also the 9.3mm 285 grain Mega bullet as a reloading component but I haven't found much other information for them.

Texas has a wide variety of non-moose game animals both indigenous and naturalized (there were no boar in the Americas before European explorers like the Conquistadors released them here for example - now they are a menace, sometimes causing fatalities, and a nuisance / pest). There are many Texas ranches also stocked with African and Asian game species available to hunt (for a cost, of course).

 

[Mr. Zorg]

samu,

Pardon my typo. It should have read 9.3X62mm Lapua factory ammunition available in the US, not 9.3X64mm.

I think I see *some* rationale at Lapua for the test barrel lengths associated with the cartridges you listed.


740mm = 29 inches (or so), this was a common rifle barrel length for military issue bolt action rifles in the 1890's, including 6.5X55mm. Long since obsolete for general military issue use and as you note, not practical for hunting with modern bullets and powders.

600mm = 23.6 inches and 24 inches (or so) is a common rifle barrel length in the USA for bolt action rifles used for hunting (I don't have experience outside the USA), and this is a barrel length I often see as the reference barrel if a reference barrel length is provided by an ammunition manufacturer. Traditionally cartridges such as the .25-06 Remington, .264 Winchester Magnum really need 24 inch or longer barrels to utilize the full potential of these cartridges.

660mm = 26 inches (or so), this is puzzling to be linked for the.308 Winchester cartridge from what I've seen, for hunting. Cartridges I previously listed like .25-06 Remington and .264 Winchester Magnum are ones I have most often seen used in production rifles with barrels this long. My Zastava .264 Winchester Magnum rifle is the only rifle I own with a barrel this long.

560mm = 22 inches is a very common hunting rifle barrel length in the USA for bolt action, pump action, and semiautomatic hunting rifles but I can only remember ever seeing this used as a reference barrel length by a boutique US ammunition manufacturer Doubletap for some of their offerings.

400 mm to 510mm = 16 inches to 20 inches (or so) rifle barrel lengths are less common in the US for hunting style bolt action rifles, but there are some. These shorter barrels are more common on semiautomatic rifles in the US on platforms that could be used for personal / home defense as well as hunting.

 

[samu]

samu,

Pardon my typo. It should have read 9.3X62mm Lapua factory ammunition available in the US, not 9.3X64mm.

I think I see *some* rationale at Lapua for the test barrel lengths associated with the cartridges you listed.


740mm = 29 inches (or so), this was a common rifle barrel length for military issue bolt action rifles in the 1890's, including 6.5X55mm. Long since obsolete for general military issue use and as you note, not practical for hunting with modern bullets and powders.

600mm = 23.6 inches and 24 inches (or so) is a common rifle barrel length in the USA for bolt action rifles used for hunting (I don't have experience outside the USA), and this is a barrel length I often see as the reference barrel if a reference barrel length is provided by an ammunition manufacturer. Traditionally cartridges such as the .25-06 Remington, .264 Winchester Magnum really need 24 inch or longer barrels to utilize the full potential of these cartridges.

660mm = 26 inches (or so), this is puzzling to be linked for the.308 Winchester cartridge from what I've seen, for hunting. Cartridges I previously listed like .25-06 Remington and .264 Winchester Magnum are ones I have most often seen used in production rifles with barrels this long. My Zastava .264 Winchester Magnum rifle is the only rifle I own with a barrel this long.

560mm = 22 inches is a very common hunting rifle barrel length in the USA for bolt action, pump action, and semiautomatic hunting rifles but I can only remember ever seeing this used as a reference barrel length by a boutique US ammunition manufacturer Doubletap for some of their offerings.

400 mm to 510mm = 16 inches to 20 inches (or so) rifle barrel lengths are less common in the US for hunting style bolt action rifles, but there are some. These shorter barrels are more common on semiautomatic rifles in the US on platforms that could be used for personal / home defense as well as hunting.

Thought so since lapua has never made ammo for x64.

These days eg Sako doesn’t even try to sell hunters other than 20” threaded, 23” standard and 24” for magnums. They do make longer barrels for US market though but since in Finland suppressors are easy to obtain and legal everywhere, 20” is more popular than ever. Obviously target shooters use whatever barrels they like and I have not much experience in that.

My view to the matter is that if practical barrel length compromises effective killing I’ll opt for heavier cartridge.