Modern Muzzle Brakes

[perdurabo]

a muzzle break acualy cause more flinching when proper protection isn’t worn , and will
even cause other people @ a shooting range to flinch when a neighboring person fires a rifle with a brake

First, most of the rifles, especially precision rifles, I see on the public ranges near me have brakes on them. In precision rifle competitions like PRS or NRL Hunter, nearly ALL rifles will have brakes, and that reflects in the rifles most consumers are buying these days. They're everywhere and won't be going anywhere. So far as I know, the only rifle competition that bans them is F-Class, and who knows how long that will last.

Secondly, I own a private range and thus don't really have to deal with other people's muzzle blast. Not everyone has that luxury, but in most cases those who don't want to shoot next to someone shooting with a brake at a public range can simply move to a different location on the range if possible.

 

[pilar]

I'm waiting on this one because I'm not sure if it's troll or not.

I don't care about your reasons, I will not hunt Africa with a brake or with someone who does.

I’m 100% with you , I was a hunting outfitter for 35 years and when brakes and magnaport started getting popular in the 1990’s we banned them from the hunting vehicles and enclosed blinds
ever see how badly a person flinched when they didn’t know they were dry firing a braked rifle

my range placed railroad ties stacked up as a enclosure for folks who use brakes so that others can enjoy the range without having to be assaulted by brakes

 

[Inline6]

First, most of the rifles, especially precision rifles, I see on the public ranges near me have brakes on them. In precision rifle competitions like PRS or NRL Hunter, nearly ALL rifles will have brakes, and that reflects in the rifles most consumers are buying these days. They're everywhere and won't be going anywhere. So far as I know, the only rifle competition that bans them is F-Class, and who knows how long that will last.

Secondly, I own a private range and thus don't really have to deal with other people's muzzle blast. Not everyone has that luxury, but in most cases those who don't want to shoot next to someone shooting with a brake at a public range can simply move to a different location on the range if possible.

That my friend should tell you all you need to know...your PH doesn't have that luxury.

I was shooting PRS before it was named PRS. I have always ran a brake. In short yes people have, their is a guy in NZ that specializes in them.

Let's try this another way, if running a brake causes your son of your brother to lose hearing would you still run one? My answer is no I would not. My PH is like a family member to us. We have ate meals with one another's family's. So I feel it would be selfish of me to do that to him and everyone else involved. If you are flinching you are not the first, step down in caliber and train with a 375h&h. Then work your way up to the 458Lott.

 

[perdurabo]

That my friend should tell you all you need to know...your PH doesn't have that luxury.

I was shooting PRS before it was named PRS. I have always ran a brake. In short yes people have, their is a guy in NZ that specializes in them.

Let's try this another way, if running a brake causes your son of your brother to lose hearing would you still run one? My answer is no I would not. My PH is like a family member to us. We have ate meals with one another's family's. So I feel it would be selfish of me to do that to him and everyone else involved. If you are flinching you are not the first, step down in caliber and train with a 375h&h. Then work your way up to the 458Lott.

But if said PH were also wearing ear pro in the form of electronic hearing protection, why would they lose their hearing? Yes, I suppose even multiple repeated blasts over a short period of time can be problematic, even with electronic ear pro inserted, but more than 2-3 shots in a short period of time is not likely in a hunting scenario.

I have zero qualms shooting next to other competitors shooting hundreds of rounds all day long with brakes while wearing ear pro. Yes, a 458 Lott would have much more muzzle blast than say, a 6mm Dasher, but it would only be 1-3 shots in the span of days vs hundreds an hour in competition.

 

[BGHNTR416]

Last I checked, shooting rifles without hearing protection will damage your hearing. A brake will surely accelerate that process. I guess I am stating the obvious...the one PH I hunted with many years ago did not use hearing protection and did not care. His 460 weatherby had a brake on it. I stuck my fingers in my ears when he shot it. I do the same thing when I am hunting with friends with rifles that DON'T have brakes. I have had guides ask me if I use brakes prior to booking/hunting. Seems most don't care for them and they don't want to wear hearing protection. I suppose if you want/have to hunt with a rifle that has a brake, out of curtesy, discuss with your guide/PH before you book? Good discussion.

 

[CoElkHunter]

You know, all of our military tanks and artillery have brakes on the barrels. Sure, it's the military, but some soldiers must be firing them? Wonder what hearing protection they have? I have one muzzle brake on a Remington 700 .300WM. I used it for a PG hunt in Africa and I provided the PH and tracker with 3M ear plugs on lanyards. Nobody complained about the muzzle blast, although they were always behind me when I shot.

 

[JimP]

I have a removable brake on my .340 Weatherby but I would never hunt with it even if those around me had ear protection.

On my first safari at the sight in I had it on. You should of seen the look on my PH's face when I put the ear protection on and loaded up. I took my 3 shots to confirm the zero and then took the brake off.

A few days later my Ph just said thanks for not hunting with it on.

 

[Inline6]

But if said PH were also wearing ear pro in the form of electronic hearing protection, why would they lose their hearing? Yes, I suppose even multiple repeated blasts over a short period of time can be problematic, even with electronic ear pro inserted, but more than 2-3 shots in a short period of time is not likely in a hunting scenario.

I have zero qualms shooting next to other competitors shooting hundreds of rounds all day long with brakes while wearing ear pro. Yes, a 458 Lott would have much more muzzle blast than say, a 6mm Dasher, but it would only be 1-3 shots in the span of days vs hundreds an hour in competition.

It is obvious you can't see past your want. At the end of the day you are going to do what you want. We both know for a fact shooting next to a brake 2' away sucks no matter if it is a 223. The concussion off of a 458Lott will have the ability to disorientate someone that close. If that someone is your PH earpro inclined and he loses that split second he needs to make a call to fire a shot to stop a charge, then what? You are only seeing it from your point of view. That's not a bad thing, it happens all the time in life, sometimes we can't see the whole picture. More to it then just shooting, again last time I checked 99.8% of the people on this forum wouldn't pull your man card for using a 375h&h to hunt DG.

I'm not fud passing judgment either, I'm someone that has had the same thoughts. Was told no go with some so so reasoning. One on one with several PHs asking about brake, getting honest feedback. That changed my thoughts. Shooting comps with a suppressor next to guys with brakes, that changed my mind.

Doing my best to paint the best picture I can, if it doesn't make sense not sure I'll be able to explain any better.

 

[deewayne2003]

I would assume that everyone else who might be close enough to the shooter to have their hearing damaged would probably have at least one free and useable finger on each hand, but that would probably be something I would discuss with the PH before embarking.

Noise at the proper decibel and or duration can cause hearing loss even with fingers stuck in your ears; this is why we had to wear full ear muffs + custom fitted ear plugs while rigging/work sound for concert speakers for every performance from Willie Nelson to Metallica.

Get your big bore fitted with a muzzle brake and have someone else fire it while you stand 3’ to the side of and directly even with the muzzle with your fingers in your ears…. Just like the PH may be and test your theory before asking the PH to do so.

 

[deewayne2003]

What?

I, along with multiple people have stood within 10 feet of someone shooting a 50BMG with a brake multiple times with only ear plugs and while the concussion was impressive, there was no hearing or any other damage done whatsoever. Can you provide proof that such an effect exists?

Define “within 10 feet” …. I’d be willing to bet you were behind it, now get 10’ from the muzzle at either side and 3’ forward and your entire perspective on sound will change.

 

[JMJ888]

I just put a directional brake on my 416 RUM for the sole purpose of load development so will see how it performs…after load development is finished the brake comes off and I put the thread protector on it. For hunting situations with limited number of rounds recoil is hardly noticeable.

Brakes are ugly and far from ideal but they work…if that allows someone to step up in caliber and shoot it more accurately then so be it. Who am I to question how somebody else spends their money in pursuit of enjoyment.

 

[Tra3]

On a DG hunt the PH probably won’t be plugging his ears. He should be holding a rifle and also aiming at the same animal to help manage the D part of the DG. I l’d rather have my Ph have both hands on his rifle than both hands on his ears.

more practice. Respect your limits. Hunt with a .375. That is my MO.

 

[Jim Golden]

I shot my dad's 300 Weatherby Custom Outfitter with a brake. I went deaf in one ear for about five hours. Both rang for a week. No, I wasn't wearing ear plugs because "Ye Olde Man" told me it wasn't that bad. He was already 75% deaf... I now have permanent hearing loss from it. Sure, it made the .300 kick like a .243....but it was about ten times louder than a .357 revolver (which is itself about five times louder than a .44 mag with a massive crack rather than a boom). I don't like brakes at all and would never use one hunting with a PH and trackers. Had a guy in Seattle beside me at a range once. He had a new "then" .30-378 Weatherby with a brake. Dad has one of those too. I was shooting my .300 Win Mag Sendero off a bench two down from him. Every time he fired the thing, it blew a cloud of filth and dust off the bench between us all over me. He had it loaded so hot he couldn't group 5" at 100 yards. I love Weatherby's, have quite a few, and don't handload to the low end. But brakes make too much noise and you shouldn't have to require those around you to wear ear plugs.

 

[perdurabo]

On a DG hunt the PH probably won’t be plugging his ears. He should be holding a rifle and also aiming at the same animal to help manage the D part of the DG. I l’d rather have my Ph have both hands on his rifle than both hands on his ears.

more practice. Respect your limits. Hunt with a .375. That is my MO.

What makes you so certain your PH would be unwilling to wear hearing protection? I've discussed it with mine and he has no problem with it as long as it's the in-ear electronic variety that won't affect auditory acuity.

I've also got a CZ 550 in .375 H&H and guess what, it's got a brake as well. ALL my rifles larger than a 30-06 have brakes or suppressors, most of them KDF radial brakes. I don't have them on these rifles because I can't shoot the rifles without them, but because why would I experience the excess recoil when I don't have to?

Brakes allow me to shoot more and longer and more comfortably. That means more practice, more confidence, and less likelihood of flinching. Why would I intentionally make it more difficult an unpleasant to shoot when the the solution to the one downside of using them is easily mitigated by hearing protection?

 

[dchum]

What makes you so certain your PH would be unwilling to wear hearing protection? I've discussed it with mine and he has no problem with it as long as it's the in-ear electronic variety that won't affect auditory acuity.

I've also got a CZ 550 in .375 H&H and guess what, it's got a brake as well. ALL my rifles larger than a 30-06 have brakes or suppressors, most of them KDF radial brakes. I don't have them on these rifles because I can't shoot the rifles without them, but because why would I experience the excess recoil when I don't have to?

Brakes allow me to shoot more and longer and more comfortably. That means more practice, more confidence, and less likelihood of flinching. Why would I intentionally make it more difficult an unpleasant to shoot when the the solution to the one downside of using them is easily mitigated by hearing protection?

Youre not convincing any serious hunters on here

 

[Tra3]

What makes you so certain your PH would be unwilling to wear hearing protection? I've discussed it with mine and he has no problem with it as long as it's the in-ear electronic variety that won't affect auditory acuity.

I've also got a CZ 550 in .375 H&H and guess what, it's got a brake as well. ALL my rifles larger than a 30-06 have brakes or suppressors, most of them KDF radial brakes. I don't have them on these rifles because I can't shoot the rifles without them, but because why would I experience the excess recoil when I don't have to?

Brakes allow me to shoot more and longer and more comfortably. That means more practice, more confidence, and less likelihood of flinching. Why would I intentionally make it more difficult an unpleasant to shoot when the the solution to the one downside of using them is easily mitigated by hearing protection?

I’m not so certain the PH would be unwilling to wear hearing protection. Which is why I didn’t write that or suggest it.

You should buy a few sets of ear protection and bring them for the Ph and tracker(s) and for yourself.
Then, you should get a JP recoil eliminator brake and have a gunsmith fit it to a larger rifle. I have one of those brakes. It is amazing. It also sends an amazing shockwave of pressure and noise out to each side. The noise of a brake and the recoil of a rifle both fight against accuracy. The more I shoot, the more comfortable I am without a brake. I don’t use brakes on rifles anymore.

You are here asking for advice. I’d reread the thread and see where the sum of the advice points.

 

[1dirthawker]

Brakes allow me to shoot more and longer and more comfortably. That means more practice, more confidence, and less likelihood of flinching. Why would I intentionally make it more difficult an unpleasant to shoot when the the solution to the one downside of using them is easily mitigated by hearing protection?

I have owned rifles with muzzle brakes and killed a bunch of moose and lesser animals with them. As i age, i hope wisdom from experience help me to make decisions sometimes different than i would have made 20+ years ago.

use your muzzle brake to practice with, then take it off when actually on safari. you wont notice the recoil from your rifle when shooting dangerous game without a brake and you will save others hearing.

I guide brown bears seasonally, and others have probably seen this story but you might benefit from hearing it. had a 9 1/2'brown bear at 30-35 yards, my client shooting his .338 ultra mag complete with muzzle break was loaded and ready to go but did not see the bear. i pointed at the bear and whispered "there he is". he stepped up and i moved back and to the side (not enough) the bear stood up and he fired into the bears chest.

from that moment on, things were fuzzy and puzzled out a few minutes later. I have never had a flash bang grenade dropped on me, but i suspect that what it is like. my 375 was in my hands, i did not have ear pro in, nor was there time to place it in ones ear. if you have good ear pro in, then you cannot communicate with your client. the bear dropped to all fours and tore off thru raspberries and alders. turns out, i fired twice and hit the bear twice. i thought i shot twice but only once at the bear and once in the brush. i was thoroughly disoriented. (we recovered the bear the next day).

had that bear charged, it is hard to say if i could have done a proper job protecting the client. i suspect an elephant, lion or buffalo could cause a real problem with a disoriented guide/PH. many times there is just no opportunity to place ear pro in BEFORE shooting. African PH's are in on a magnitude of more shooting than most american guides. their hearing is at risk. I have lost quite a bit of hearing and have chronic tinnitus. I can't honestly say what caused it all, but i have likely had less exposure to firearm noise than most pH's.

I just ordered a set of AXIL hearing pro, and will report on how well it works, but....being able to communicate with your hunter is paramount and regular earplugs or muffs don't allow that. on dangerous game, the guide should have his hands on his rifle, not in his ears.

my 2 cents.

 

[davsel]

To the OP's original question, yes, a brake on a 458 will make a tremendous reduction in recoil. Generally, the larger the caliber, the greater the percentage of reduction. I run a huge brake on a 416 Weatherby and it feels like a 30-06.

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

so from a ph point of view
we most often dont wear hearing protection in the field not because we trying to be tough, but to hear, no listen intently, to sounds. Hearing is almost as important a part of stalking, tracking, as sight.
i have yet to try hearing protection that lets you hear natural sounds properly, always a wind noise or back ground hissing sound or something. and they dont allow you to hear the direction from which to sound came.
muzzle breaks are great, but only for the shooter.

in a dangerous game hunt, most times ph will have his gun at the ready. or in plains game he may be steadying the shooters elbow. or watching the target through his binocs. so no he cant always stick his fingers in his ears.
but we are professional, so we say nothing, smile and congratulate the hunter, while slowly trying to recover from the blast and get our direction, hearing and balance back

 

[spike.t]

. There's no reason NOT to use it apart from wanting to gain the approval of fussy old traditionalists who for some reason like to beat themselves up more than is necessary.

Interesting attitude.......